More On Using The Waves PRS Amp Models

i would certainly spin some billie holliday on an all tube system (the genelecs can come too).

my stereo amp is a bryston; might as well be a straight wire.

Bryston is a GREAT amp! I remember them well, and I’m told they’re being made again by the folks who own Radial in Canada, as, incidentally, are the Dynaco tube amps. The guy who started Bryston originally owned Dynaco.

Before I got into the powered monitor thing, I used a Krell amp in my studio, powering a set of B&W monitors. Sounded great, but we had a lightning strike, and a ground problem in the house, and it destroyed the amp and speakers. All that was available on short notice to replace them was some new Genelec 1041s, so I bought a pair, and had several sets thereafter.

Powered monitors have a theoretical advantage, and a theoretical disadvantage. The advantage, besides not needing a power amp, is that the signal doesn’t have to travel through speaker cables, and the amps can be made specifically for the drivers.

The disadvantage is that the amps are in a vibrating speaker cabinet, and for reasons of weight and space, are usually Class D amps lacking the usual big transformers. Not a bad thing, of course, just a thing. Anyway, I’ve been a powered monitor guy for 15 years now, and it’s been hard to imagine anything else.

But my friend’s system was fantastic. So now I have the Big Giant Crazy Idea that I could put in a second set of passive reference monitors, and use a tube amp like an Audio Research. It’s often good to switch between two sets of monitors in the studio, so...
 
never made the leap to powered monitors, but definitely remember when that became a thing (mid ‘90s?). next time, probably. the bryston was bought to drive old-fashioned martin-logan electrostatics. my speaker cables are really good.

nothing says “i’m not a rapist” like the glow of a $10,000 tube phono stage. can i offer you an amaro?

Bryston is a GREAT amp! I remember them well, and I’m told they’re being made again by the folks who own Radial in Canada, as, incidentally, are the Dynaco tube amps. The guy who started Bryston originally owned Dynaco.

Before I got into the powered monitor thing, I used a Krell amp in my studio, powering a set of B&W monitors. Sounded great, but we had a lightning strike, and a ground problem in the house, and it destroyed the amp and speakers. All that was available on short notice to replace them was some new Genelec 1041s, so I bought a pair, and had several sets thereafter.

Powered monitors have a theoretical advantage, and a theoretical disadvantage. The advantage, besides not needing a power amp, is that the signal doesn’t have to travel through speaker cables, and the amps can be made specifically for the drivers.

The disadvantage is that the amps are in a vibrating speaker cabinet, and for reasons of weight and space, are usually Class D amps lacking the usual big transformers. Not a bad thing, of course, just a thing. Anyway, I’ve been a powered monitor guy for 15 years now, and it’s been hard to imagine anything else.

But my friend’s system was fantastic. So now I have the Big Giant Crazy Idea that I could put in a second set of passive reference monitors, and use a tube amp like an Audio Research. It’s often good to switch between two sets of monitors in the studio, so...
 
never made the leap to powered monitors, but definitely remember when that became a thing (mid ‘90s?). next time, probably. the bryston was bought to drive old-fashioned martin-logan electrostatics. my speaker cables are really good.

nothing says “i’m not a rapist” like the glow of a $10,000 tube phono stage. can i offer you an amaro?

I remember the Martin-Logans. I had some Ohm Fs, and later Magneplanars before I went all-in on studio gear.

Incidentally, my subsequent life might have gone so much better if I hadn’t been seduced by the pull of “Hey, let’s put a recording studio in our very own house!”

But I was dragged down by the inevitable studio addiction and the crack pipe of PRS gear. It’s sad. Another life thrown into the gutter. As a result, I am a lost and wayward soul. :oops:

And now, my friend? Now if I want to futz around with a good home hi fi, I must go to my buddy’s place. One day I’ll shut down my evil studio and walk back into the light...just not today! Hand me that crack pipe, will ya? Thanks. ;)
 
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you made a good choice — to me, everything sounds better in the studio anyway, and i would live in one with godley and creme and the ghost of rick james if i could. audiophile listening rooms without any keyboards and guitar amplifers look half-finished and boring.

one time when i had no stereo, i ran a discman into a jcm900/gallien-krueger half stack to listen to the ‘new led zep remasters’. not great, but everything was better with a little flanger (in front of course).

I remember the Martin-Logans. I had some Ohm Fs, and later Magneplanars before I went all-in on studio gear.

Incidentally, my subsequent life might have gone so much better if I hadn’t been seduced by the pull of “Hey, let’s put a recording studio in our very own house!”

But I was dragged down by the inevitable studio addiction and the crack pipe of PRS gear. It’s sad. Another life thrown into the gutter. As a result, I am a lost and wayward soul. :oops:

And now, my friend? Now if I want to futz around with a good home hi fi, I must go to my buddy’s place. One day I’ll shut down my evil studio and walk back into the light...just not today! Hand me that crack pipe, will ya? Thanks. ;)
 
Back to the old argument about modeling amps, once again...

Here the Pedal Show guys check out some vintage amps. Just fast forward to 53:26 for the "No modeling amp in the world sounds ANYTHING like that, whatsoever" comment.

Of course, if you listen to the video on a reasonably good system, it's clearly true. I'm not the only one who thinks this.


And this of course is why Homey don't play the modeling amp game. ;)
 
Back to the old argument about modeling amps, once again...

Here the Pedal Show guys check out some vintage amps. Just fast forward to 53:26 for the "No modeling amp in the world sounds ANYTHING like that, whatsoever" comment.

Of course, if you listen to the video on a reasonably good system, it's clearly true. I'm not the only one who thinks this.


And this of course is why Homey don't play the modeling amp game. ;)
That’s generally true, anyway. Chances are good that the same model made 30 minutes later on the same production line doesn’t sound anything like that. It’s a crap shoot. However, when amp GAS strikes for a Friedman Brown Eye 50 and you don’t have one, you either fork over $2500 for a used one or I twist the knob on the Kemper. GAS Away! Now I’m jonesin’ for a late 50s tweed Fender anything...unobtainium...twist the knob. GAS Away! Train Wreck-curious? That’s an expensive GAS. That’s right...twist that GAS away! Is it exactly like the original? No. But a fluctuation in the power grid that day could yield varied results anyway. So, my point is, you’re absolutely right, no modeler can do a primo vintage amp justice, but if you want to get 85% of the way there now without wiring money anywhere, they serve a handy purpose. You really should try one. (Now, the bad news is, if Michael Britt hasn’t played and profiled it, I haven’t either. You can even get snobby about the profiles.) You might really enjoy the esoterica involved with profiling your - and maybe others’ - amps. I could see you being the next MBritt.
 
I can see how during a recording session that you wouldn't want any background noise interfering with your recording by using a microphone in front of a cabinet. But I'm also reminded now of at least one of my amps (maybe two) which have a DI output jack and a switch which will turn off the speakers, as well as a built in cabinet simulator. So, since I already have that, and as long as I am happy with that amp, then maybe I don't need an amp plugin.
 
That’s generally true, anyway. Chances are good that the same model made 30 minutes later on the same production line doesn’t sound anything like that. It’s a crap shoot. However, when amp GAS strikes for a Friedman Brown Eye 50 and you don’t have one, you either fork over $2500 for a used one or I twist the knob on the Kemper. GAS Away! Now I’m jonesin’ for a late 50s tweed Fender anything...unobtainium...twist the knob. GAS Away! Train Wreck-curious? That’s an expensive GAS. That’s right...twist that GAS away! Is it exactly like the original? No. But a fluctuation in the power grid that day could yield varied results anyway. So, my point is, you’re absolutely right, no modeler can do a primo vintage amp justice, but if you want to get 85% of the way there now without wiring money anywhere, they serve a handy purpose. You really should try one. (Now, the bad news is, if Michael Britt hasn’t played and profiled it, I haven’t either. You can even get snobby about the profiles.) You might really enjoy the esoterica involved with profiling your - and maybe others’ - amps. I could see you being the next MBritt.

All good points, my friend Boogie! And yet, there’s alternate path...and it’s this other path, that I’ll get into more in a second, that I tend to take.

The caveat is that each of us has different philosophies - this is a good thing! - and which path we choose depends on the individual. On to the ‘Les’ philosophy’ portion of today’s program...

My guiding philosophy is that I don’t need or want very many amps, but I do want the best amps of their kind that I can find. So I’d rather have a small handful of fantastic amps than 1,000 mediocre amps, or 1,000 models of great amps that only get me 90% of the way there.

The second part of my thinking is that there aren’t that many basic foodgroups of amps out there, and of those that exist, I’ve narrowed my interests down to Plexis, Tweeds, Blackface and AC30, with a little bit of Dumble thrown into the mix on the side. I do get out and play lots of other amps, basically everything I can get my hands on (there’s an amazing store near me that carries just about everything, including all the esoteric stuff).

So being the best sounding Plexi I could find for my taste, the HXDA, perfectly fills that Plexi role (incidentally, Friedman amps are absolutely not my taste, nor are current Marshalls); the DG30 is a fantastic amp that does Tweed “plus other stuff,” and moreover I actually like it better than the many, many vintage Tweed amps I’ve recorded and played; the Lone Star does Blackface pretty well; I’ve had a lot of Two-Rocks for the Dumble thing; I’m still looking for the AC30 that floats my boat 100%. There’s no rush to get another TR or an AC30, that’s kind of a long-term “maybe”. In other words, I’m in pretty good shape amp-wise, and don’t Jones for anything else.

If I had a big desire for a Trainwreck, I’d of course unhesitatingly get myself a Komet, who went to the trouble of licensing and getting their design directly from Ken Fischer, the guy who owned and designed Trainwreck amps, and they’re wonderful versions of that amp; I’ve played several in my studio.

Here’s the thing: I’m 100% satisfied playing the amps I’ve named, and haven’t been Jonesing for that AC30 or anything else enough to pull the trigger. It’s not hard for me to justify amp shopping, I’m in the recording biz, so the cost isn’t a deal breaker.

Finally, I’ve chosen the amps I’ve chosen over everything else on the market, including vintage amps, most of which are very affordable relative to their reputations.

So I don’t get it; why would I want Kemper “90%” models of amps I passed on in the first place?
 
Your “been there, done that, bought the tee shirt” point in your experience level is most enviable. Just as soon as I think I’ve got my panacea, something trés cool pops up on my radar (thanks to other buddies with exquisite tastes). So I completely understand and respect your position. Just like I’m not compelled - at the moment - to grab the most gorgeous guitars on the planet, which seem so plentiful these days. Appreciating what you have - and why you have it - is a sign of getting older, I guess. Having standards and having the wisdom to stick to it is a wonderful thing.

Interestingly enough, I was listening to some recordings of our Peyote Burger project last night. There are some things I did that confirm the direction I’ve gone with Rig #1. Proof that my investments and experimentation went in the right direction for me. It also stresses that organic that can happen with the room have everything to do with the end result. Could I reproduce that with a digital solution? Honestly, I’m skeptical. But for now, for the control and reproducibility, and my limited time, it should be a path pursued. There’s more for me to discover. I’ve not yet reached your stage of Nirvana, Les.
 
I’ve not yet reached your stage of Nirvana, Les.

Neither have I! ;)

Seriously though, I figure if I can’t get it done (for my style of music) with an HXDA, a DG30, and a Lone Star, then in truth I can’t get it done.

“I’ve heard your work, Les. You can’t get it done no matter what you play through.”

“Not even a little?”

“A note here or there maybe.”

“So you’re saying there’s a chance...”

“I don’t want to hold out false hope, Les.”

Bottom line here is I need all the amp tone help I can get!!!
 
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I am surprised there is not much chatter on these plug ins. I have no plan (or the money) to buy these great PRS amps. However if the plug ins get 90 percent there, I would be pretty happy.

https://www.waves.com/plugins/prs-supermodels?msclkid=edc546b7e7f610dd7ace1bc15f6d6a66&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Search-Brand-Product-US-CompuTab-BMM&utm_term=+waves +prs&utm_content=BMM PRS Supermodels


I played through mine the other day, all three amps. The only one I think sounds legitimately great with the included IR’s is the V9 Blue Sierra. The others sound decent, but darker than I prefer with the V30 cabs, I’m not big on the 55/75hz greenbacks, and the g12-65’s are occasionally ok but not an all around winner for me. I’ve seen some guys use third party IR’s and get results much more in line with what I would expect. So I think that’s the next thing I need to do with the Dallas and Archon.
 
I can see how during a recording session that you wouldn't want any background noise interfering with your recording by using a microphone in front of a cabinet. But I'm also reminded now of at least one of my amps (maybe two) which have a DI output jack and a switch which will turn off the speakers, as well as a built in cabinet simulator. So, since I already have that, and as long as I am happy with that amp, then maybe I don't need an amp plugin.

Update: I bought the PRS amp plug-in. Haven't used it yet but it is installed on my computer and I do have an interface which I can plug a guitar into. Saves me a lot of money as I won't have to buy the real versions of those two amps which I do not already own.
 
Update: I bought the PRS amp plug-in. Haven't used it yet but it is installed on my computer and I do have an interface which I can plug a guitar into. Saves me a lot of money as I won't have to buy the real versions of those two amps which I do not already own.

Some random suggestions, based on owning these plugins...

If using an interface, some with instrument inputs present an impedance that’s close to what a real guitar amp has at its input jack, and that’s what your guitar wants to see. But some don’t, and in that case, it’s not a bad idea to acquire a good direct box that does present the correct impedance. It makes a difference, I’ve found.

The speaker IRs matter. A nice thing about these PRS/Waves plugins is that you can import IRs from other companies. I kind of prefer some of the third party IRs with these plugins.

Using a bit of reverb and compression with the plugins creates a more realistic sound.
 
Some random suggestions, based on owning these plugins...

If using an interface, some with instrument inputs present an impedance that’s close to what a real guitar amp has at its input jack, and that’s what your guitar wants to see. It makes a difference, I’ve found.

Using a bit of reverb and compression with the plugins creates a more realistic sound.

All of these suggestions work great with using/programming Helix patches as well. Helix has variable input impedances that you can assign to each patch (or globally). When making my presets, I always check what input impedance a particular amp has and then set the helix model to match.

Likewise with the compression and reverb. I have found that running a compressor between an amp model and cab blocks helps make the rig sound more "in the room". I also run my cabs in parallel - one close mic'd the other "room" mic'd. The room mic'd cab gets a room reverb added to give the tone a bit of depth.

Anyway....
 
Some random suggestions, based on owning these plugins...

If using an interface, some with instrument inputs present an impedance that’s close to what a real guitar amp has at its input jack, and that’s what your guitar wants to see. But some don’t, and in that case, it’s not a bad idea to acquire a good direct box that does present the correct impedance. It makes a difference, I’ve found.

The speaker IRs matter. A nice thing about these PRS/Waves plugins is that you can import IRs from other companies. I kind of prefer some of the third party IRs with these plugins.

Using a bit of reverb and compression with the plugins creates a more realistic sound.

My interface is an Apogee Duet plugged into a Windows 10 machine. I've been advised that it should suffice.
 
Some random suggestions, based on owning these plugins...

If using an interface, some with instrument inputs present an impedance that’s close to what a real guitar amp has at its input jack, and that’s what your guitar wants to see. But some don’t, and in that case, it’s not a bad idea to acquire a good direct box that does present the correct impedance. It makes a difference, I’ve found.

The speaker IRs matter. A nice thing about these PRS/Waves plugins is that you can import IRs from other companies. I kind of prefer some of the third party IRs with these plugins.

Using a bit of reverb and compression with the plugins creates a more realistic sound.

Seconding the IR suggestion - although I’m not sure that’s the correct term because it was Les who got me try the IRS in the first place.
 
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