ME1 Shipping Question - Is this legal?

Adam O.

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Feb 10, 2014
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Hey guys..... Quick question that I hope someone here could give me a solid answer on.

I'm looking into possibly purchasing an ME1, but the guitar I'm looking at is in Japan. It's on ebay and the seller has it listed for sale/shipping to the US. Now I thought you couldn't ship these overseas due to the Brazilian, but this guy says you can. I don't want to buy this thing, have it shipped, and then have customs take it away. Does anyone know the correct info on this?
 
I'm almost positive that since it was made in the US, it can be returned to the US...
 
Ordinarily, yes. The question is whether a specific customs agent sniffs out BRW and, sans CITES document, elects to confiscate/destroy the instrument. Myself, I would look elsewhere.
 
Technically, Jamie is 100% correct. BUT!!! That guitar sure as heck better be super cheap. Because that's not something I'd be willing to gamble on.
 
Here is an interesting article that may confuse you further, but at least you'll know what you may be dealing with:

http://www.luth.org/web_extras/CITES_Lacey-Act/section_02.html

If you do buy the guitar, you might want to discuss what you need to do with the CITES enforcement authorities. Incidentally, Customs doesn't administer CITES. That would be the Fish and Wildlife Service. So you'd need to check with both agencies.

I don't know if having a customs broker would be a good idea, however it may be worth looking into as well.

What you will want to do is make sure that the seller has a paper trail of receipts, permits, etc., going back to PRS or at least his distributor or dealer, and of course, you will want verification from PRS.

It had better be a very fine guitar for all that you may have to go through. On a personal note, while I admire the conservation goal, I believe that having CITES apply to musical instruments is a bit nuts.
 
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I think the whole CITES thing is STUPID! It makes it hard for people to purchase instruments, while major furniture manufacturers have been getting stockpiles of the stuff for years.

To the OP: I just do not think it is worth taking a chance on myself....there IS a possibility that it could be held at customs...and once there...it could be consficated.

But that is the nightmare scenario. The normal scenario is that evertything would go off without a hitch....but when other countries are involved...you just never know who you are dealing with.

I would say give this one a pass and try to buy elsewhere.

An ME 1 is a very expensive guitar....too expensive to just lose because some customs agent got it. But the decision is yours....if it were me...I would not do it though...too many things could go wrong.
 
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I'm curious. Do you disagree with protecting endangered species in general? Or do you have a better plan in mind?

Oh GIVE IT A REST! You act like there is no other way to do this! It is not an either OR situation.

Of course I think protecting endangered species can be important, but the way they have been going about it...like Germany burning guitars IS STUPID!

Let me ask you something....will burning a piano that has ivory make the elephant that the tusk came from come alive again???..I don't think so!

some of the ways they enforce this is completely stupid and I could care less if you agree with that or not.
 
Ok I sell on eBay for a living. This is an easy question, is the seller using the ebay global shipping program? If he is and ANYTHING happens you get a full refund including shipping. If he is not your still covered with PayPal but will take opening a case and be a longer process. As far as the wood and customs I would think that since it was made here it shouldn't be an issue however it comes down to the agent and if he or she is being a **** that day. I would also check feedback on the seller. Good luck
 
As far as the wood and customs I would think that since it was made here it shouldn't be an issue however it comes down to the agent and if he or she is being a **** that day. I would also check feedback on the seller. Good luck
Never under estimate the discretionary power of the person at the border.

I don't think seller feedback is a good predictor of what will happen at the border. At best it may serve as an indicator of how helpful they will be in resolving issues.
 
I think by 'check feedback' perhaps he meant that there might actually be stories written about what happened if the seller often deals in guitars of this kind internationally - i.e., 'customs had to destroy the guitar but it was shipped promptly and I still got my money back! A++++' etc...
 
Oh GIVE IT A REST! You act like there is no other way to do this! It is not an either OR situation.

Of course I think protecting endangered species can be important, but the way they have been going about it...like Germany burning guitars IS STUPID!

Let me ask you something....will burning a piano that has ivory make the elephant that the tusk came from come alive again???..I don't think so!

some of the ways they enforce this is completely stupid and I could care less if you agree with that or not.

I simply was curious to see if you had an alternate plan. I hope that my children's children's children will have the opportunity to enjoy the things that today's world is allowing to extinguish.

If burning, destroying, and banning products made with illegally obtained ivory causes the market for such ivory to shrink, then poachers have less reason to kill more elephants. I like elephants.
 
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I like elephants.

I also share your love of elephants. We should build matching PS's (in the night of course) to commemorate said love. Also, I touched a rhino recently at the STL Zoo. Life complete.


Good luck with the ME 1 decision Adam. Unless there's something truly unique about the one from overseas I would try and obtain one from inside the USA. While I doubt you'd have an issue with the guitar returning, I believe the rules are that it can since it was made here, I'd hate for you to have an problem. Just my thoughts on this.
 
I'm curious. Do you disagree with protecting endangered species in general? Or do you have a better plan in mind?

I've been thinking about this question, since you asked it.

Demand drives illegal markets just as it drives legal markets. In the face of high demand, there are profits to be made, and as long as those profits are high for the illegal stuff, you will see the law violated.

The assumption behind the CITES (as well as other prohibition) bans is that you can reduce demand by passing a law. The problem with this assumption is that it is based on the notion that demand is a rational process, where people weigh the consequences of what they do carefully, and come to a well-reasoned decision about what they want.

The fact is that demand for goods that are not basic needs is not rational, it's emotional.

Our country's experience with alcohol and drug laws, and the experience of other countries around the world, makes me question the sanity of the assumption that passing a law will prevent a bad thing from happening, because not only has it demonstrably not worked, it creates illegal industries that have very high profit margins.

Take the basic need for transportation as an example. Why is it also necessary for many folks to also have a car that is cool-looking, luxurious, etc.? The answer is that the product's success depends not only on the rational need for transportation - it depends on the product's irrational appeal to the emotions.

Is the urge to acquire a lot of beautiful guitars rational or emotional? Does the average player really need a gorgeous BRW guitar to express him/herself? Is the desire to own "the best" a product of reason or emotion? I'm not talking about Segovias here, I'm talking average guy who plays at home or in a bar, where the type of the guitar matters more for the emotional effect of how the player feels than for the rational purpose of making music, let alone the rational purpose of making music for listeners to enjoy. If we believe that something is "better," we want it, and we want it regardless of whether it makes rational sense. We desire things on the belief that something is better, and we act on that belief. This is how human beings are. If we believed something wasn't "better," there would be no demand for it.

Once we realize that demand for a very high percentage of the world's goods is not the product of reason, but is the product of emotion, we can begin to understand why laws designed to work on the theory of prohibition, like CITES, will be relatively ineffective.

I think the better plan would be to establish a serious program that would preserve endangered species at the source, not at the end product: discourage Brazil from burning its rain forests, coupled with an effective program to cultivate new BRW trees. Right now there are no effective sanctions to stop the burning of the rain forests. Nor does there seem to be a good plan to plant and grow BRW.

It's all left to nearly nonexistent enforcement of the cutting ban in the regions where the trees actually grow, and to the stricter enforcement of the government agencies in the importing countries that actually respect CITES. This is backwards, because by then the tree is already dead and will not reproduce, and it accomplishes nothing. And the government agencies really can't do all that much to stem the tide.

Our drug importation laws are much more seriously enforced, with stiffer penalties, and it's clear how ineffective that has been.

Instrument makers use a tiny percentage of the wood that's grown. I'm not a fan of Bob Taylor cornering the market on ebony, but I do think his plan and ideas to preserve the species are a good idea. There should be more of this, and less of the thinking behind CITES, which tries to reduce demand in consuming countries.

All that making sale of BRW instruments illegal accomplishes is to make it more desirable, and therefore more profitable to defy the ban, fake the necessary paperwork, etc.

If you want a species to continue to exist, the answer is to grow more of the stuff, and harvest it responsibly.

One other point I'd like to make, and this may just be me: I've had BRW fingerboards, and other kinds of rosewood, including Honduran, Indian, etc., and I've played BRW, IRW, and Cocobolo acoustic guitars. All sounded great, to my ears, and I would encourage folks to think for themselves about whether the BRW thing is all that important.
 
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Wow, well everyone on here had some great input. Les..... That was a very interesting article you posted. Thanks for all of the input guys. I've decided to just wait it out though, lol. There's just too much red tape and chance involved with this sale. I'm just looking for a specific color ME1 and they seem to be a rare bird. The search will continue though....... Only it will be limited to the U.S. from now on.
 
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