Mark Tremonti Baritone Limited Edition

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by HANGAR18, Oct 6, 2016.

  1. alantig

    alantig Zombie Four, DFZ

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    Not to stir the hornets' nest, but as far as the baritone/not baritone thing goes, I'd think it depends on what 'baritone' really refers to. Is it (mostly) the form factor of the guitar, or the pitch range of the guitar. If you were to tune the SE 277 to standard concert pitch, is it still a baritone? (I'm going to leave a 'standard' down-tuned out of the discussion on the premise that there are differences between a standard guitar and this one, other than the slightly longer scale length.)
     
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  2. Dusty Chalk

    Dusty Chalk alberngruppenführer

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    Yes, exactly. My da used to tell me that a lot of problems can be solved simply by defining your terms. The classic, "does a tree make a sound if it falls in an empty forest?" My da used to always say, "obviously no-one ever asked an engineer, because an engineer defines 'sound' as 'rapidly fluctuating localized air pressure variations', so the answer is obviously 'yes'".

    So in this case, it's simply a matter of defining 'baritone'. And I think of baritone from the voice perspective, so to me, it means "lower pitched"...
     
  3. Fidel Jimenez

    Fidel Jimenez New Member

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    From Wiki: (leaves the argument wide open)

    The baritone guitar is a guitar with a longer scale length, typically a larger body, and heavier internal bracing, so it can be tuned to a lower pitch.

    The most common scale lengths on an electric baritone range from 25.5" to 28.7", With the latter more commonly being tuned lower than a common six-string. The average baritone scale on the market would be around the scale length of 27", with a tuning set to a perfect fourth, using at least 12 gauge strings or bigger stock.
     
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  4. rugerpc

    rugerpc A♥ hoards guitars ♥A Soldier 25, DFZ
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    Wiki is, by definition, not a source anyone should use for definitions.
     
  5. bretwomack

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  6. Dusty Chalk

    Dusty Chalk alberngruppenführer

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    I beg to differ -- the vetting process for wikipedia is quite thorough, and all with a stake in the matter are encouraged to voice their views.

    That said, the problem with the wikipedia definition is it defines a baritone guitar by both the result (a lower voiced guitar) and by mechanism (how the lower voice is achieved). I think this proves that one should pick. Does the Tremonti Baritone stop being a baritone if one were to restring it (and set it up again) with more traditional guitar gauged strings (e.g. tens)? I would say yes...and I'm okay with that.
     
  7. rugerpc

    rugerpc A♥ hoards guitars ♥A Soldier 25, DFZ
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    The problem with wiki is that it is NOT vetted by all who have a stake in the matter. What happens instead is one "author" camps out on his or her pet topics and changes them back to his "superiority informed" view and re-edits out any changes to his position before the electrons stop spinning.

    No credentials are needed to post, and it shows.

    I've seen edits for spelling and grammar edited back to the original text with errors, even when it did not change the meaning of the entry.
     
  8. HANGAR18

    HANGAR18 Not buying any more guitars. Again.

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    Okay, here is the simplified HANGAR18 explanation of the new Mark Tremonti Baritone Limited Edition guitar.
    1. It's called a Baritone guitar because it is intended to be downtuned (or is delivered tuned down) and so that it is not confused with Tremonti's other signature model guitar.
    2. It has a 25.5 inch scale length to help the strings have a greater resonance (vibrate longer) when the strings are down tuned (played after loosening the string tension).
    3. It does not have a 27+ inch scale length so that the G string will be much more easy to bend (up a full step) while soloing.

    Like everything else PRS makes, if you like the specs, buy it. If you don't like the specs, don't buy it. No sense in bickering over terminology.
     
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  9. Dusty Chalk

    Dusty Chalk alberngruppenführer

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    Sorry, but that explicitly is not what is supposed to happen. You should post on the discussion page associated with that page, complaining about exactly that.
     
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  10. alantig

    alantig Zombie Four, DFZ

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    I read that on Wikipedia and now I'm not sure what I believe.
     
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  11. rugerpc

    rugerpc A♥ hoards guitars ♥A Soldier 25, DFZ
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    LOL

    Been there, done that, many times.

    Wiki is irretrievably broken.
    because internet
    because people
    because agendas

    An interesting experiment with a pre-determined result.
    because internet
    because people
    because agendas
     
  12. rugerpc

    rugerpc A♥ hoards guitars ♥A Soldier 25, DFZ
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    Back to the subject...

    When I first saw the specs for this guitar, the scale length raised an eyebrow. After all, my last purchase was an SE 277.

    But, on reflection, a couple of things came to mind...

    We don't call smaller guitars like Taylor's big baby and mini Taylor's 'soprano' guitars because of their shorter scale. The same is the case for shorter scale travel guitars and 3/4 sized 'kid's' guitars. Also true for Sir Paul's Horner bass which is shorter in scale than a Fender, which is shorter than a stale up bass.

    That nudges me into the "voicing" side of the definition.

    The second thing is that I'm guessing there are more changes to Mark's guitar than just string guage. If there are, I'd like to know what accommodations PRS made to enhance the playability and tone of the guitar in the target register.
     
  13. Drew

    Drew New Member

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    14 GA strings are not going to be very playable in that scale length from either a lead or rhythm perspective. In the high end, bends are going to be tough. On all ends, there is going to be a lot of resistance to the pick. That low C# is going to be like picking against power line cable. There is a reason down tuned guitars are generally a longer scale. It's because that is what people find to be the most playable. This guitar is 2 generations behind where downtuned/extended range guitars currently are. It started off this way with bigger strings on normal scales. Then it went to straight longer scales like 26" or 27". Now, its fanned fret multi scale guitars.

    I hate to bag on PRS, but this just further illustrates that PRS doesn't understand THAT market. I thought they were getting there with the SE baritone. That thing is brillliant.
     
  14. rugerpc

    rugerpc A♥ hoards guitars ♥A Soldier 25, DFZ
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    There are other reasons to make a shorter baritone...

    Smaller hands
    Faster movement on the neck due to shorter distances
    Different tone

    Who knows why Paul and Mark went this direction for this guitar. Just because it doesn't meet YOUR expectations doesn't mean it sucks or is a mistake.

    Don't like it? Simple. Don't buy one.
     
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  15. Drew

    Drew New Member

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    I was just offering my opinion. The opinion of an actual player. I don't collect guitars like a lot of people here. I'm a player. So, I'm offering an opinion from that perspective. It's not against the rules. So, please don't bag on me if I'm not breaking a rule.
     
  16. rugerpc

    rugerpc A♥ hoards guitars ♥A Soldier 25, DFZ
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    I didn't attack you personally. I voiced my opinion.

    You did, however, take a shot at the company (and Paul by extension) when you wrote:

    Please make your points without delving pejoratively into the minds or motivations of other forum members, including our host.
     
    #36 rugerpc, Oct 13, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2016
  17. Drew

    Drew New Member

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    Show me the rule that says I can't say that. Why do you think this forum is here? It's not Paul being all nice and generous. It's to sell guitars and to find out whats on the minds of the people who are buying the guitars. It's a market research and marketing tool. This forum wouldn't be here if PRS didn't think that this forum would generate more money than they invest in it. That is just business. It's very smart business too. Paul knows how to sell guitars. I'll give the guy that. He is a genius salesman. He makes darn good guitars too. But, I'm not going to agree with everything PRS does. You may think some things I say are in bad taste. But, PRS wants to hear the opinions. Trust me.
     
  18. rugerpc

    rugerpc A♥ hoards guitars ♥A Soldier 25, DFZ
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    Two rules, actually. One in the thread on rules and one in the link at the right bottom of every page:

    "1. General Forum Conduct and Etiquette

    Our rules are simple: "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything", "treat others as you wish to be treated", etc.


    We're all here for the love of music and instruments. Please treat your fellow forum members with respect and with respect for their opinion, as different as it may be from your own. Any "trolling", personal attacks or unbecoming behavior is against forum rules and won't be tolerated (and it just makes you look bad). We won't agree on everything, but let's not focus on disagreements."

    ***

    "You agree to not use the Service to submit or link to any Content which is defamatory, abusive, hateful, threatening, spam or spam-like, likely to offend, contains adult or objectionable content, contains personal information of others, risks copyright infringement, encourages unlawful activity, or otherwise violates any laws."


    If you want to discuss this further, please send me a PM.
     
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  19. vchizzle

    vchizzle Zomb!e Nine, DFZ

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    I'm "an actual player" and use 11 14 18 36 52 60 on a 25" scale PRS. From one of the posts above, Mark seems to be using his hybrid in a similar set up. So he's got a little more string tension than what I do. I doubt it's unplayable for him. Bottom line is it's a signature limited run guitar for him, being made available for purchase to the public.
     
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  20. HANGAR18

    HANGAR18 Not buying any more guitars. Again.

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    I like the flame maple neck on these guitars.
     
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