Man....just when you have given up on new music...SURPRISE!

[RaySachs]

I need to quibble briefly with one thing in the original post. I realize that lots of players like to rag on hip-hop. But my parents (who had musical training and were quite good!) liked to rag on rock and roll in the 60s, too. I don’t think they were right, but these days most of us realize that a lot goes into a good rock track that the WW2 generation didn’t know much about. I’d say the same is true of my generation’s view of hip-hop.

I’m friends with (and have worked with) a couple of the guys who co-wrote, played keys and guitar on, and produced Eminem’s stuff, through and after the 8 Mile soundtrack. They have Oscars; not an accomplishment most of us can boast of.

You’d be surprised what incredible “traditional” musicians they are; they have serious jazz and rock backgrounds and lots of music theory under their belts. They can absolutely play circles around most of the folks here who are quick to criticize, but not very quick to recognize.

The soundtrack for 8 Mile incorporated real guitars played live; real drums, played live; real keys, and other “real” instruments.

More skill and talent goes into a good hip-hop track than you might imagine. As with any genre of music, there is superb work, and there is crap; and as with any genre, the volume of crap work greatly exceeds the volume of excellent work. That doesn’t rob the music of potential for creativity.

I’ve written produced ad tracks for several ad campaigns that were based around hip-hop. Composition and playing aside for the moment, rapping is a lot like being a good voice actor who can write the script as well; try it. Unless you’re very, very good at it, the result will be utterly lame.

In any case, I emerged from the writing and performing sessions with profound respect for what it takes to do the genre well. My belief is that as musicians and artists, it’s better to be open to a variety of music, whatever the style, than to close our ears and minds.

Just my two cents. I agree about Gary Clark, Jr. He’s awesome.

I view hip-hop and rap like I view almost any musical genre. About 90% of it is crap but there's some really amazing stuff too. There are genres I like and will like everything from the best of it down to the medium good. Blues is in that camp, jazz is too, some soul and some blues based rock as well. Everything else I basically only like the very cream of the crop. Country, roots, hip hop, classical, pop-rock. Some stuff I just don't like even when it's awesomely good - opera, late '70's / early '80's "rock" like Kansas, Journey, Supertramp, Styx, Foreigner, Little River Band, etc - I hated that stuff with a passion I can barely even describe. I don't like metal or most fusion either - too many people trying to impress with chops, too little actual musical expression. But I've heard plenty of great hip hop and even bought some of it over the years. It's not my favorite genre, but if I'd been born about 35-40 years later, if very well might have been. I don't write anything off until I've given it a good chance, and most stuff I've given a chance I like some portion of.

And while we're on the subject of great blues players / singers who transcend the genre, I saw Robert Cray last night. What an incredible treat. I used to go see him a LOT when we lived in the Seattle area - he came up in that region and played there all the time in the '80s. We saw him in some of the smallest places you can imagine. And we were still there when he got really big around the early '90s - the last time we saw him there was in about '92 in the Tacoma Dome - he'd gone and gotten really huge on us. Then we moved back east, were raising kids and having careers and ramped back the going to concerts thing quite a bit. And literally hadn't seen Robert since, until last night. He's a lot less big now but, if anything, he's better than he was then. Singing and playing with a lot more authority and confidence - he OWNS that material. Sam Cooke's body may have died, but his voice jumped into Mr. Cray. He was always great, but he's "lived in" great now. It's another level. God, what a treat. Great seats too - 4th row dead center...

-Ray

 

[Dirty_Boogie]

I need to quibble briefly with one thing in the original post. I realize that lots of players like to rag on hip-hop. But my parents (who had musical training and were quite good!) liked to rag on rock and roll in the 60s, too. I don’t think they were right, but these days most of us realize that a lot goes into a good rock track that the WW2 generation didn’t know much about. I’d say the same is true of my generation’s view of hip-hop.

I’m friends with (and have worked with) a couple of the guys who co-wrote, played keys and guitar on, and produced Eminem’s stuff, through and after the 8 Mile soundtrack. They have Oscars; not an accomplishment most of us can boast of.

You’d be surprised what incredible “traditional” musicians they are; they have serious jazz and rock backgrounds and lots of music theory under their belts. They can absolutely play circles around most of the folks here who are quick to criticize, but not very quick to recognize.

The soundtrack for 8 Mile incorporated real guitars played live; real drums, played live; real keys, and other “real” instruments.

More skill and talent goes into a good hip-hop track than you might imagine. As with any genre of music, there is superb work, and there is crap; and as with any genre, the volume of crap work greatly exceeds the volume of excellent work. That doesn’t rob the music of potential for creativity.

I’ve written produced ad tracks for several ad campaigns that were based around hip-hop. Composition and playing aside for the moment, rapping is a lot like being a good voice actor who can write the script as well; try it. Unless you’re very, very good at it, the result will be utterly lame.

In any case, I emerged from the writing and performing sessions with profound respect for what it takes to do the genre well. My belief is that as musicians and artists, it’s better to be open to a variety of music, whatever the style, than to close our ears and minds.

Just my two cents. I agree about Gary Clark, Jr. He’s awesome.

While I agree with you Les for the most part regarding hip-hop musicians, things have changed quite a lot since the 8 Mile days (released 16 years ago.) In today's world of "free" music and disposable singles, auto-tuned, sampled and sequenced to death, and produced as product from the latest/hippest/baddest/you-name-it acts, I feel that the real talent really isn't being showcased as much as they could be. It's just so formulaic... get someone a relatively successful single, then pair them up with someone more famous ("/featuring ...") to add in a few "yeahs" , "ah ha's" and and "that's right", play it in heavy rotation for a couple of months and then disappear forever or repeat. While I can't say I'm the authority on the inner workings of the music biz, having two teenage kids who I drive around a lot, I spend more hours than I care to admit listening to pop and hip hop stations, and I gotta tell you, the dearth of real talent on the radio is astounding! There's probably some very talented producers behind the scenes, but pop or hip-hop/r&b artists that make you stop and really listen are few and far between. This is where the the bad "rap" (pun intended) stems from.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

I have nothing to say, but my ears were burning so I popped in to see if I could figure out why.

 

[László]

There's probably some very talented producers behind the scenes, but pop or hip-hop/r&b artists that make you stop and really listen are few and far between. This is where the the bad "rap" (pun intended) stems from.

Well, yes! It’s a taste thing, of course, but most music in many genres is fairly disposable stuff.

I think the #1 song when I was a baby was, “How Much Is That Doggie In The Window?” I mean, well done I suppose for it’s saccharine genre (complete with barking dog sound effects in waltz time), but...this is probably why rock and roll was invented.

 

[Peet]

Well, yes! It’s a taste thing, of course, but most music in many genres is fairly disposable stuff.

I think the #1 song when I was a baby was, “How Much Is That Doggie In The Window?” I mean, well done I suppose for it’s saccharine genre (complete with barking dog sound effects in waltz time), but...this is probably why rock and roll was invented.

We're showing our age. I'll see that "How Much" and raise and raise you with "Mairzy Doats"

 

[László]

We're showing our age. I'll see that "How Much" and raise and raise you with "Mairzy Doats"

Heh!

Another #1 hit from my lost early childhood. No wonder my parents were convinced rock and roll was awful!

 

[Huggy Love]

While I agree with you Les for the most part regarding hip-hop musicians, things have changed quite a lot since the 8 Mile days (released 16 years ago.) In today's world of "free" music and disposable singles, auto-tuned, sampled and sequenced to death, and produced as product from the latest/hippest/baddest/you-name-it acts, I feel that the real talent really isn't being showcased as much as they could be. It's just so formulaic... get someone a relatively successful single, then pair them up with someone more famous ("/featuring ...") to add in a few "yeahs" , "ah ha's" and and "that's right", play it in heavy rotation for a couple of months and then disappear forever or repeat. While I can't say I'm the authority on the inner workings of the music biz, having two teenage kids who I drive around a lot, I spend more hours than I care to admit listening to pop and hip hop stations, and I gotta tell you, the dearth of real talent on the radio is astounding! There's probably some very talented producers behind the scenes, but pop or hip-hop/r&b artists that make you stop and really listen are few and far between. This is where the the bad "rap" (pun intended) stems from.

Dead on the money, the only thing left out is that it's mostly all controlled on a corporate level.

Thank goodness this kid is getting some recognition and exposure for his skills, there are so many artists like this that stay under the radar because of today's market. I'm not a big blues cat but I noticed him a year ago and appreciate his talent and drive to be a bluesman in this day & age.

 

[Dirty_Boogie]

Heh!

Another #1 hit from my lost early childhood. No wonder my parents were convinced rock and roll was awful!

Dayum, Les - you are old! Just kidding - always good to get different perspectives.

 

[László]

Dayum, Les - you are old! Just kidding - always good to get different perspectives.

You bet I’m old! Still, I’m not ready to throw in the towel. Yet.

Besides, I get to create music like this stuff I did a few years back, and I still like rockin’ out in my own way.

 

[Birdsofprey]

Opinions are the only thing that make us different, I couldn't stand for anyone here to think like me (never mind look like me!). Hmmmm

 

[mcarty1]

I need to quibble briefly with one thing in the original post. I realize that lots of players like to rag on hip-hop. But my parents (who had musical training and were quite good!) liked to rag on rock and roll in the 60s, too. I don’t think they were right, but these days most of us realize that a lot goes into a good rock track that the WW2 generation didn’t know much about. I’d say the same is true of my generation’s view of hip-hop.

I’m friends with (and have worked with) a couple of the guys who co-wrote, played keys and guitar on, and produced Eminem’s stuff, through and after the 8 Mile soundtrack. They have Oscars; not an accomplishment most of us can boast of.

You’d be surprised what incredible “traditional” musicians they are; they have serious jazz and rock backgrounds and lots of music theory under their belts. They can absolutely play circles around most of the folks here who are quick to criticize, but not very quick to recognize.

The soundtrack for 8 Mile incorporated real guitars played live; real drums, played live; real keys, and other “real” instruments.

More skill and talent goes into a good hip-hop track than you might imagine. As with any genre of music, there is superb work, and there is crap; and as with any genre, the volume of crap work greatly exceeds the volume of excellent work. That doesn’t rob the music of potential for creativity.

I’ve written produced ad tracks for several ad campaigns that were based around hip-hop. Composition and playing aside for the moment, rapping is a lot like being a good voice actor who can write the script as well; try it. Unless you’re very, very good at it, the result will be utterly lame.

In any case, I emerged from the writing and performing sessions with profound respect for what it takes to do the genre well. My belief is that as musicians and artists, it’s better to be open to a variety of music, whatever the style, than to close our ears and minds.

Just my two cents. I agree about Gary Clark, Jr. He’s awesome.

Horses for courses! Some like hip hop and rap and some do not! I am in the latter category! So WHAT??? I make no apologies for that. That is just me! I did not grow up with rap or hip hop ....I grew up in the 70's listening to rock. I have just never gotten into people talking to a beat! It just does not do a thing for me. It is rhyming to a drum machine someetimes with music in the background thrown in....., It is what is popular now and I understand that, but I will not like it no matter how popular it becomes! And I nor anyone here on this post never EVER said that it was not created by people who had no talent....do not know where you got that from, but it just is not the music I listen to. You can think of me what you like....but I like what I like and nothing you say about rap or hip hop will change the fact I just do not listen to it! Nor will I. But I AM open to people like Gary Clarke Jr who I think are keeping alive "traditional" music as opposed to the stuff you hear on the radio today.