Livening up Sound of Humbuckers in S2 Mira Semi ?

[Stuart Kirsh]

I play Blues and roots stuff like Little Feat, Los Lobos, The Band, etc.

Signal chain: S2 Mira semi-hollow -> Sonic Research Turbo Tuner -> Barber GainXChanger OD -> Tech 21 Character Series British -> Diamond Memory Lane Jr. -> Roland Blues Cube Stage. (The Tech 21 shifts the amp's EQ from a Tweed sound to something closer to a Blackface tone.)

I'm very happy with the tapped tones . However, the guitar in humbucking mode sounds very dark and bland. For reference, I'm looking for something close to an Allman Bros. type sound.

I tried an S2 Mira solidbody, thinking the humbuckers might be more lively, but the neck was chunkier than the one on my semi-hollow. That's when I found out all S2 necks are not identical. I've got small hands so I sent it back.

Now I'm considering whether one of the Marshall JTM type overdrives with active tone controls might inject some life into the humbuckers. . .

Is this a fool's errand?

 

[pac90]

I have half an answer, but it involves changing pickups. I have an S2 solid Mira and have changed pickups. The stock ones are not bad, but sound a bit muffled or missing a full range in comparison to changed pickups.

I have 58/15 neck and pearly gates bridge in there, of which the bridge is phenomenal, its got that PAF sg like sound very clear and bright but not strident, I left the rest of the wiring as stock

I'm assuming yours has S2 mira pickups and not S2 #7s

 

[Stuart Kirsh]

pac90: Thanks for your response. Yes-- my guitar has Mira pickups and your wording: "muffled or missing a full range" is an apt description of how the humbucking tones sound to me. Still, the tapped pickup selections
sound quite good through my rig-- to my ears, at least-- and I'm not sure I want to give up these tones. . . or start researching pickups, for that matter. My plan had been to buy the Mira solid for humbucking tones.
I think I'm still going to try an OD or two just to see what's possible. In the end, I may just use this guitar for tapped sounds and shop for one of the other S2 solids to use for humbucking sounds. . .
if I can find one with a neck that feels like my current guitar. Interesting what you say about the P. Gates-- I thought they were more aggressive.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

pac90: Thanks for your response. Yes-- my guitar has Mira pickups and your wording: "muffled or missing a full range" is an apt description of how the humbucking tones sound to me. Still, the tapped pickup selections
sound quite good through my rig-- to my ears, at least-- and I'm not sure I want to give up these tones. . . or start researching pickups, for that matter. My plan had been to buy the Mira solid for humbucking tones.
I think I'm still going to try an OD or two just to see what's possible. In the end, I may just use this guitar for tapped sounds and shop for one of the other S2 solids to use for humbucking sounds. . .
if I can find one with a neck that feels like my current guitar. Interesting what you say about the P. Gates-- I thought they were more aggressive.

The Bogner Ecstasy Red added a ton of clarity and “glass” to my rig. I run it kinda low gain considering how much it has on tap, but maybe something like that or the blue version could be what you’re looking for if you’re leaning towards a pedal solution.

 

[Stuart Kirsh]

sergiodeblanc: I will check those out. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[JJJ]

before people swap pickups my suggestion is always to play with the adjustments you have available

Try changing pickups heights, have a go at the pole pieces etc

 

[Stuart Kirsh]

JJJ: Certainly worth a try.

 

[László]

You probably already know this, but I guess it doesn’t hurt to talk about it a little just in case. “Dark” and “Bland” usually means you’re not getting high frequency content or bite. Some of that is caused by the high frequency losses caused by capacitance from associated cables, pedals, and stuff, and some is caused because a humbucker pickup tends to emphasize lower midrange frequencies, and that in turn masks the high frequency content. So here goes:

Capacitance robs your signal of high frequencies, and if you’re looking for a crisp and defined sound, it’s a good idea to look at cables with lower capacitance, use the shortest cable to the pedalboard you can stand to, and add a high quality buffer at the beginning of the pedal chain to preserve the high frequencies that make it through the cable.

As an example, the cable that PRS imports from England by Van Damme runs around 25pf per foot. That’s pretty low capacitance cable. Mogami runs over 40pf per foot; Canare is nearly double the Van Damme at 49pf. And these are all high quality cables, but you’ll hear the difference. Now, for some players who play with very high gain, or other players who want to roll off some high end, a higher capacitance cable isn’t a bad thing.

Point is, it’s worth finding out your cable’s capacitance (several sites have the info). If the capacitance is high relative to other cables, it might be worth checking into using a lower capacitance cable.

The other thing to know is that because the capacitance is “per foot,” the shorter the cable, the lower the capacitance. A 10 foot cable has lower capacitance than the same cable that’s 20 feet. And at 20 feet of cable, the loss of high frequencies with most unbalanced cables like the ones used for guitars becomes more pronounced with any brand of cable. So there’s that. On to buffering your signal...

If you put a buffer in front of the other pedals, you convert the signal to a lower impedance, and this helps prevent high frequency loss. Your signal is then better preserved in your pedal chain, its interconnects etc., and in the run to your amp. But I’m talking about a high quality, dedicated buffer, not something like a Boss pedal with a ten cent buffer chip.

When I use humbuckers, which is most of the time, I dial the bass back, and sometimes even cut the bass with an EQ pedal, and ever so slightly boost the highs. The controls on the amp work fine for this, but I like the flexibility a good EQ pedal gives me. In your case, not much could be simpler than simply using an EQ pedal to compensate for the “more bass, less high frequency” that sometimes seems to happen with humbuckers. Cut the bass back a little, boost the highs a little, and maybe the upper midrange, and switch the pedal on when it’s time to use the pickups in humbucker mode.

A cable, a buffer, and an EQ pedal won’t set you back more than a set of pickups unless you go all spendy on them (which, hey, I tend to go all spendy, nothing wrong with it!), and you can do more with them than you can with different pickups. The cables and buffer will help all of your guitar tones, and a good EQ pedal is something most pedalboards oughta have anyway.

As I said, you probably already know this stuff.

 

[Stuart Kirsh]

LSchefman: Many thanks for the detailed message. Today I had the opportunity to listen to a friend play my guitar today through his Mesa Transatlantic. When he plugged straight into the Mesa's Marshall Style channel, I immediately preferred what I was hearing. It seems to me that what I'm missing is textural, and where I want to hear it is in the mids. I also listened more carefully today to the guitar through my rig and it turns out that I misspoke when I described it as "dark" and "muffled". The bass is quite well defined and there's as much bite as I want. I don't know how else to describe what I don't like about the mids except to say they're overly smooth. I don't ordinarily like a "grainy" or "splintery" tone
but these pickups, to my ear, through this rig, are pushed too far in the opposite direction. With the highs turned down, it would be fine for Jazz, but that's not what I play. I've ordered a Tumnus Deluxe and a JHS Charlie Brown V4 to try out.
Both have a lot of control over EQ. I also have an MXR 10 band EQ pedal I could play around with.

 

[Glide-bpm]

If nothing else, at least with the MXR 10 band you could get a good idea of which mid frequencies you're missing/craving...

Signed, Captain Obvious... Or is it Oblivious...

 

[zovanou]

s2 mira soild body owner swapped out the magnets in stock pickups out put in roughcast a2, enough of a difference to
not swap pickups. the end result got the guitar close to what the op was describing.

 

[guitarbob.armitage7@gmail]

I play Blues and roots stuff like Little Feat, Los Lobos, The Band, etc.

Signal chain: S2 Mira semi-hollow -> Sonic Research Turbo Tuner -> Barber GainXChanger OD -> Tech 21 Character Series British -> Diamond Memory Lane Jr. -> Roland Blues Cube Stage. (The Tech 21 shifts the amp's EQ from a Tweed sound to something closer to a Blackface tone.)

I'm very happy with the tapped tones . However, the guitar in humbucking mode sounds very dark and bland. For reference, I'm looking for something close to an Allman Bros. type sound.

I tried an S2 Mira solidbody, thinking the humbuckers might be more lively, but the neck was chunkier than the one on my semi-hollow. That's when I found out all S2 necks are not identical. I've got small hands so I sent it back.

Now I'm considering whether one of the Marshall JTM type overdrives with active tone controls might inject some life into the humbuckers. . .

Is this a fool's errand?

I play Blues and roots stuff like Little Feat, Los Lobos, The Band, etc.

Signal chain: S2 Mira semi-hollow -> Sonic Research Turbo Tuner -> Barber GainXChanger OD -> Tech 21 Character Series British -> Diamond Memory Lane Jr. -> Roland Blues Cube Stage. (The Tech 21 shifts the amp's EQ from a Tweed sound to something closer to a Blackface tone.)

I'm very happy with the tapped tones . However, the guitar in humbucking mode sounds very dark and bland. For reference, I'm looking for something close to an Allman Bros. type sound.

I tried an S2 Mira solidbody, thinking the humbuckers might be more lively, but the neck was chunkier than the one on my semi-hollow. That's when I found out all S2 necks are not identical. I've got small hands so I sent it back.

Now I'm considering whether one of the Marshall JTM type overdrives with active tone controls might inject some life into the humbuckers. . .

Is this a fool's errand?

I put a set of Lawlor El Rayos in my guitar and upgrarded the pots and cap. Gone is the pull single coil. sounds fantastic.

 

[ViperDoc]

“If the window’s broken, don’t remodel the kitchen.”

First try adjusting your pickup heights, and even pole piece heights if they’re adjustable. It’s free and you’ll definitely hear a difference.

That said, I’ve definitely swapped my fair share of pickups. 57/08 or 57/09 are excellent choices. If you’re after classic rock tones (you said Allman Bros.), consider the potted version of the Custom 59 set from Onamac Windery. They are clear, buttery, open, balanced, and they purr like no other PAF pickup I’ve played. Truly incredible.

 

[Longneck Tenon]

I play Blues and roots stuff like Little Feat, Los Lobos, The Band, etc.

Signal chain: S2 Mira semi-hollow -> Sonic Research Turbo Tuner -> Barber GainXChanger OD -> Tech 21 Character Series British -> Diamond Memory Lane Jr. -> Roland Blues Cube Stage. (The Tech 21 shifts the amp's EQ from a Tweed sound to something closer to a Blackface tone.)

I'm very happy with the tapped tones . However, the guitar in humbucking mode sounds very dark and bland. For reference, I'm looking for something close to an Allman Bros. type sound.

I tried an S2 Mira solidbody, thinking the humbuckers might be more lively, but the neck was chunkier than the one on my semi-hollow. That's when I found out all S2 necks are not identical. I've got small hands so I sent it back.

Now I'm considering whether one of the Marshall JTM type overdrives with active tone controls might inject some life into the humbuckers. . .

Is this a fool's errand?

I’m going to say this, have you thought about another amp?

 

[dogrocketp]

Pickup height first. Drop them a little more and see how the top changes.

 

[Lewguitar]

s2 mira soild body owner swapped out the magnets in stock pickups out put in roughcast a2, enough of a difference to
not swap pickups. the end result got the guitar close to what the op was describing.

Good on ya!

Magnet swaps on humbuckers can make a HUGE improvement and change in tone.

It's a hassle if they have covers soldered on because the cover needs to be removed, but EZ PZ with uncovered humbuckers.

 

[Robbog]

Hi, new here...

I recently bought a S2 McCarty 594 and have the same issue that Stuart described above, the 58/15's appear a bit
dull and don't cut through the mix when playing. I have reduced the pickup heights, tweaked the pole pieces etc
but cannot get the clarity that I expected.

I play through...

Signal chain:-
CryBaby
Line 6 HX 4CM
Marshall Origin 50 head
1 x 12 Cab with a Celestion GK100 speaker

I don't have this issue with my current Les Paul which has Classic 57 Humbuckers (covers removed),

Has anyone tried removing the covers from the 58/15 pickups, can it be done and did it make any difference,
I don't want to go down the route of changing out pickups, adding EQ pedals etc.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Robbo

 

[Lewguitar]

Hi, new here...

I recently bought a S2 McCarty 594 and have the same issue that Stuart described above, the 58/15's appear a bit
dull and don't cut through the mix.

I don't have this issue with my current Les Paul which has Classic 57 Humbuckers (covers removed),

Has anyone tried removing the covers from the 58/15 pickups, can it be done and did it make any difference,
I don't want to go down the route of changing out pickups, adding EQ pedals etc.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Robbo

That's because the 57 Classics are 1/2 way decent pickups.

I prefer others over the 57 Classics but they're much, much better than PRS's import pickups.

Never removed the covers from a PRS pickup but they don't look much different than any other pickup I've taken the covers off of.

If they're wax potted you might have some difficulty. Might even ruin the pickup so be careful.

On unpotted pickups I normally cut through the blobs of solder that hold the covers on with a Dremel or just melt the solder and pry the cover away from the baseplate before it cools with a small screwdriver.

The tone will brighten up without covers. Not tremendously but rockers seem to prefer it.

Jazzers and blues guys tend to like the warmth the covers cause.

 

[Robbog]

Hi, thanks for your response.

Yeah, I think I will remove the pickup covers next time I am changing strings.

Cheers

Robbo

 

[spawnofthesith]

Hi, new here...

I recently bought a S2 McCarty 594 and have the same issue that Stuart described above, the 58/15's appear a bit
dull and don't cut through the mix when playing. I have reduced the pickup heights, tweaked the pole pieces etc
but cannot get the clarity that I expected.

I play through...

Signal chain:-
CryBaby
Line 6 HX 4CM
Marshall Origin 50 head
1 x 12 Cab with a Celestion GK100 speaker

I don't have this issue with my current Les Paul which has Classic 57 Humbuckers (covers removed),

Has anyone tried removing the covers from the 58/15 pickups, can it be done and did it make any difference,
I don't want to go down the route of changing out pickups, adding EQ pedals etc.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Robbo

Interesting, I absolutely -love- the pickups in my s2 594, at least as much if not more than my PRSi with core pickups, but couldn't stand the 57 classic+ set that were in my old LP

Interested to hear your thoughts after removing the covers