Let's talk treble bleeds... (DGT)

[ruger9]

So I have a 2022 DGT. I'm not impressed with the PRS treble bleed. The treble bleeds on my other guitars (strat, tele, P90 tele) all work better than the PRS one.

Has anyone tried a different treble bleed (than factory) with their PRS, and if so, what pickups and what cap/resistor values did you use?

 

[Johnny Rigs]

What about the treble bleed behavior do you prefer from your other guitars?

 

[theDeepender]

So I have a 2022 DGT. I'm not impressed with the PRS treble bleed. The treble bleeds on my other guitars (strat, tele, P90 tele) all work better than the PRS one.

Has anyone tried a different treble bleed (than factory) with their PRS, and if so, what pickups and what cap/resistor values did you use?

I changed over to a Kinman style bleed.

https://flic.kr/p/2nHGCeT

I swapped my pups to Duncan ‘59 at the neck and Cusum at the bridge. I experimented with lots of different cap values until I found what I liked. I did the same thing with the cap on the tone pot. I never wrote down the values, but I ran the wires in such a way that I could change them in the future with not much trouble.

 

[Tone-y]

I disconnected mine. I unsoldered one of the legs and then swapped the tone cap from .033uf to .022uf to restore a little presence to the top end (I find that despite what some people claim, the treble bleed has an effect of bypassing some of that treble even when the knob is on 10 - it's like a no load pot just for the upper treble frequencies and adds brightness)

 

[ViperDoc]

Consider also that your individual pot’s actual taper varies by as much as +/- 20%. It could also be that. You can also place a resistor across the treble bleed cap (in parallel) to mix in more of the full spectrum signal.

 

[RJK Tech]

As an aside, if you want more brightness without all that work and experimentation i’d recommend the Joe Walsh 594.

 

[ruger9]

The day will come when I will likely experiment with the treble bleed on the DGT. I'm just shocked it's not great, as PRS usually is, and everything else about this stellar guitar is... it'a just the wiring I'm not a fan of: the treble bleed isn't great, and neither are the coil splits (nothing I can do about the latter; and that's fine.... if the treble bleed worked well I wouldn't need coil splits)

But the tone and feel of this guitar is just stellar. I wasn't sure how I would get on with the wide fat neck (I love Fender Modern C's), but I love it. I'm through the honeymoon period, and I am definitely bonding with it. It's all about that bridge pickup. The DGT is my Les Paul.

 

[ViperDoc]

The day will come when I will likely experiment with the treble bleed on the DGT. I'm just shocked it's not great, as PRS usually is, and everything else about this stellar guitar is... it'a just the wiring I'm not a fan of: the treble bleed isn't great, and neither are the coil splits (nothing I can do about the latter; and that's fine.... if the treble bleed worked well I wouldn't need coil splits)

But the tone and feel of this guitar is just stellar. I wasn't sure how I would get on with the wide fat neck (I love Fender Modern C's), but I love it. I'm through the honeymoon period, and I am definitely bonding with it. It's all about that bridge pickup. The DGT is my Les Paul.

Just out of curiosity, what exactly don’t you like? Are you sure the treble bleed is your problem?

 

[RickP]

The day will come when I will likely experiment with the treble bleed on the DGT. I'm just shocked it's not great, as PRS usually is, and everything else about this stellar guitar is... it'a just the wiring I'm not a fan of: the treble bleed isn't great, and neither are the coil splits (nothing I can do about the latter; and that's fine.... if the treble bleed worked well I wouldn't need coil splits)

But the tone and feel of this guitar is just stellar. I wasn't sure how I would get on with the wide fat neck (I love Fender Modern C's), but I love it. I'm through the honeymoon period, and I am definitely bonding with it. It's all about that bridge pickup. The DGT is my Les Paul.

Keep in mind that it’s a signature guitar, and the circuitry works exactly the way David Grissom wants it to. It’s not sub-standard, it’s someone else’s standard. That said, don’t be afraid to make it bend to your expectations. Like conversations we’ve had here about frets, pickups, strings… if you want it, and it matters to you, then make it yours! Ultimately, you’re all that matters with your guitar.

 

[theDeepender]

Keep in mind that it’s a signature guitar, and the circuitry works exactly the way David Grissom wants it to. It’s not sub-standard, it’s someone else’s standard. That said, don’t be afraid to make it bend to your expectations. Like conversations we’ve had here about frets, pickups, strings… if you want it, and it matters to you, then make it yours! Ultimately, you’re all that matters with your guitar.

So well said.
That’s one thing I love about SEs. (And I know that this is not a popular thought amongst Core owners) The SE is a great guitar as is, and it’s also a great base for modding into exactly what one desires.

 

[ruger9]

Just out of curiosity, what exactly don’t you like? Are you sure the treble bleed is your problem?

The guitar does not retain brightness when turning down, on any of my amps. It acts like it doesn't even have a TB, imo.

 

[ruger9]

Keep in mind that it’s a signature guitar, and the circuitry works exactly the way David Grissom wants it to. It’s not sub-standard, it’s someone else’s standard. That said, don’t be afraid to make it bend to your expectations. Like conversations we’ve had here about frets, pickups, strings… if you want it, and it matters to you, then make it yours! Ultimately, you’re all that matters with your guitar.

Well, I think the TB on the DGT is no different than all the other PRSi; they use ONE treble bleed that I know of, the single capacitor. Have for many years.

 

[RickP]

Well, I think the TB on the DGT is no different than all the other PRSi; they use ONE treble bleed that I know of, the single capacitor. Have for many years.

I have an NF3 with a treble bleed that works great! It has a 180pf on the volume pot and a .033uf cap on the tone pot. I’m far from a treble bleed expert, but this setup does exactly what I want with this guitar. Perhaps it’s the Narrowfield pickups in combo with the circuit.

My point is simply that it works for David, and he sounds awesome using it. That doesn’t mean it works for you though. And if it doesn’t, you should change it until it does. Easy to reverse it to stock if you ever want to sell it as originally wired.

 

[garrettb]

The guitar does not retain brightness when turning down, on any of my amps. It acts like it doesn't even have a TB, imo.

It may take some experimenting. I find the best value can depend on the pickups/guitar. You can run a couple of temporary jumper wires and clip in different cap or cap/resistor combos to find what you like best.

PRS use a 180pF cap, which is very conservative, so you can try higher values to retain more treble, I'd try upping the value in steps of about 100pF and probably top out at 470pF, but a lot of the typical treble bleeds go up to 1nF.


A few options:

Mojotone - 470pF cap with 220k resistor. My fave on single coils. I found it too bright with a set of Suhr Thornbuckers, but worked well with some other buckers.
Bill Lawrence - 330pF cap with 80k resistor. Works really well with singles. Also liked it with some Bill Lawrence humbuckers.
The Common One - 1nF cap with 150k resistor. I find this one way too bright, and it's probably why a lot of people say they don't like treble bleeds.

 

[ruger9]

Yeah, my other guitars have the Cap+resistor in parallel treble bleed. One is a tele, one is a Cabronita with P90s, one is a Gretsch with Filtertrons, and one is a strat with a JB in the bridge. Two are Seymour Duncan values (.002 & 100K), two are TV Jones values (.001 & 150K)

 

[ViperDoc]

The guitar does not retain brightness when turning down, on any of my amps. It acts like it doesn't even have a TB, imo.

First, have you pulled the cavity cover off to see if you even have one? You might not. If you don’t, put one in. If you do, you can clip an additional cap in parallel to find the value you prefer, then solder that in.

 

[ruger9]

First, have you pulled the cavity cover off to see if you even have one? You might not. If you don’t, put one in. If you do, you can clip an additional cap in parallel to find the value you prefer, then solder that in.

If it doesn't, the factory made a mistake on a $5000 guitar LOL. The DGTs come with treble bleeds, that was a Grissom request.

 

[ViperDoc]

If it doesn't, the factory made a mistake on a $5000 guitar LOL. The DGTs come with treble bleeds, that was a Grissom request.

Check it out. Either you don’t have one, or you do and the value of capacitor is too low for your liking, or it could be improperly soldered and therefore doesn’t function correctly.

 

[theDeepender]

Check it out. Either you don’t have one, or you do and the value of capacitor is too low for your liking, or it could be improperly soldered and therefore doesn’t function correctly.

Very true.
If perhaps someone got used to a Gibson style mellowing when the volume was reduced (as I did) and thought of that as normal, they could have defeated the bleed by cutting one end loose. Or, as you said, poor workmanship could be the culprit. I suggest getting some caps and resistors, attaching some wires and alligator clips long enough to do some experimentation outside the wire cavity, and try out some different combinations to find what works for him. One caution though. Caps are very sensitive to differences in cable lengths and pedalboards. I didn’t believe that until I did my own experimentation. So when trying to find the right combination, use the cable and pedalboard combo that you will be gigging with.

 

[Rod/]

The guitar does not retain brightness when turning down, on any of my amps. It acts like it doesn't even have a TB, imo.

I have a 2021 WL DGT and have the same issue. Seems like there’s no treble bleed cap in it at all. Turn down the volume to 8 on the treble pickup and it‘s lost all the treble….
Over the years I’ve installed parallel resistor/cap treble bleeds to my other guitars including 2 other PRS’s with great success.The tone of the humbuckers on 3 are the same as on 10…..
Granted, David uses more treble on his amp than I do so maybe he likes the mellowing effect