Lets Talk about Amps and the rooms they live in!

CatStrangler

PRS Enthusiast
Joined
May 11, 2012
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Boston, MA
I have two PRS amps at the moment an HXDA 30 2X12 and a DG custom 30. Took me a long time to really appreciate the HXDA, but the moment I did coincided when I moved it from my living room to a small crowded extra bedroom. I didn't think anything of it at the time, but now the bedroom is being prepared for house guests and the amp is back in the living room and just doesn't seem to have quite the same magic. In the small bedroom, the lows were less boomy and the mids more present. In the living room the amp sounds far away and bass heavy. I have also been slow to fall in love with the DG 30 (also in the living room) and am now starting to think about the effects of room size and objects in the room relative to how an amp sounds and feels. Anyone else have this experience?
 
Get an auralex gramma and separate the amp from the floor. This should cut out some of the boomy lows you are experiencing. Also try different positions within the same room.
 
Get an auralex gramma and separate the amp from the floor. This should cut out some of the boomy lows you are experiencing. Also try different positions within the same room.

I did forget to mention I always have the amps off the floor usually on a coffee table because I like the amp closer to ear level when I am sitting. Is the Auralex Gamma something to use only to separate the amp from the floor or is it also effective using on a surface physically coupled to the floor like said coffee table?

This does sound like a cool product.
 
My amps have been in the same spot in the same room for ages. I do remember moving things around a bit to get rid of undesirable 'noise' - not from the amp itself, but from the room, and the adjoining room.
The things I remember doing (there may be other stuff that just happened) include:
- created some space between the combo and the wall behind it, and fussed the position along the wall a bit - which mostly got it away from any corners
- put a dampener under the amp so it didn't vibrate the floor or anything else on the floor
- replaced cheap metal lamps in the next room with nicer wooden ones - wood does vibrate nearly as easily, or if it does, it isn't as noisy about it
- replaced a framed bit of art with glass with a painting on canvas
- fiddled the angle of the piano in the middle of the room, and put an area rug underneath it (not really sure if this made a difference)
 
My amps have been in the same spot in the same room for ages. I do remember moving things around a bit to get rid of undesirable 'noise' - not from the amp itself, but from the room, and the adjoining room.
The things I remember doing (there may be other stuff that just happened) include:
- created some space between the combo and the wall behind it, and fussed the position along the wall a bit - which mostly got it away from any corners
- put a dampener under the amp so it didn't vibrate the floor or anything else on the floor
- replaced cheap metal lamps in the next room with nicer wooden ones - wood does vibrate nearly as easily, or if it does, it isn't as noisy about it
- replaced a framed bit of art with glass with a painting on canvas
- fiddled the angle of the piano in the middle of the room, and put an area rug underneath it (not really sure if this made a difference)


What I am experiencing changing rooms is more dramatic than a few extra rattles. In one room the amp is lush with a full mid range and in the other boomy and far away sounding. I do however appreciate hearing about your experiences. I think the dampener is an interesting idea as it can go anywhere the amp goes.
 
Rooms, in particular, are largely going to affect three frequencies -- the three room nodes (X, Y, and Z axis). If there are completely different materials -- say, a record and book library in one, and nothing on teh walls in the other, upholstered furniture in one, simple Ikea furniture in the other -- then those will affect the sound as well, especially if you don't have the room otherwise treated (filled bookcases and furniture act as diffusors and absorbers, with each having its own unique frequency spectrum of absorption).

I have definitely had the problem of my amps being in a large room and sounding like they've had some small fraction of their energy sucked out of them. I have solved it by placing myself as closely to the front (speaker) of the amp as I feel is safe (for my hearing) and comfortable. This is a little harder with the Rivera 4x10 combo, which is heavy as*. But the PRS 4x10 sits on another 4x10 and is therefore comfortable. I'm still going to jack it up some, just need to figure out how to do it safely. (Cats have a tendency to jump on top, and would knock it down if it was in the least bit tentatively balanced.)
 
I did forget to mention I always have the amps off the floor usually on a coffee table because I like the amp closer to ear level when I am sitting. Is the Auralex Gamma something to use only to separate the amp from the floor or is it also effective using on a surface physically coupled to the floor like said coffee table?

This does sound like a cool product.
Even if the amp is off the ground you still get bass transferred through the table to the structure of the house. The gramma is designed to decouple the amp from the surface it's sitting on. It won't eliminate the transfer but it definitely reduces it.
 
I can help best if I see a pic of each room.

A large room presents different issues from a smaller room. To start with, in evaluating the suitability of a room for use as a music room, you're balancing the ratio of the direct sound coming from the amp in this case, to the sound bouncing around the walls, floor and ceilings of the room.

The direct sound is what's coming from your amp and speakers. The reflected sound is that direct sound, bouncing around the room in very complex ways.

A large room has longer decay times, plus the level of direct amp sound you're hearing, as compared to these room reflections, is decreased.

Thus, in essence, what you're hearing in addition to whatever room modes there are, is a whole lotta reverb in addition to the guitar amp, but the larger the room, the more the ratio of reverb to direct sound increases. It's as though you recorded a guitar amp, and put too much reverb on the track. It becomes muddy, diffuse, and boomy in the low end.

Think of it this way; a gymnasium sounds different from a concert hall sounds different from a small recording booth.

You're hearing a lot more of the room's reflections off hard parallel surfaces in a gym; a concert hall is large, too, but it has specially designed surfaces, angles, seating surfaces, and other treatments designed to make it sound "good;" you have a lot less room sound in a recording booth, even though it, too is specifically designed to sound good, it's different from the concert hall because it's designed so that the sound of the instrument itself is very direct.

A living room is going to have longer reflection times, and significantly more reverberation compared to the direct sound of the amp, than a small bedroom. The surfaces and furnishings, including carpeting, may matter quite a bit. These longer decay times can make an amp sound very diffuse in the room, and the bass can become quite boomy as it bounces off various surfaces.

Placement: An amp against a floor doubles the apparent bass due to half space reinforcement; put it against a wall on the floor, and you double the apparent bass with quarter space reinforcement; in a corner, and you've added eighth space reinforcement of the bass. In a larger room, longer wavelengths of low frequencies can develop more than in a smaller room, too. And bass reflects off walls and ceilings just like every other part of the frequency spectrum.

Putting amps on a coffee table can help, or it can make things much worse, depending on the table's construction, the speaker cabinet, and its placement in the room. With some furniture, there are times you're resonating the table itself and creating a drumhead type of effect.

You're not going to duplicate the sound of a small room in a large one without a lot of careful work to control reflective surfaces. But there are things you can do that will help.

The question of whether your spouse will let you do these things is of course the biggest hurdle... ;)

In my old house, I had a grand piano in a living room with hard surfaces, a two-story ceiling, two story windows, and a large marble fireplace surround that was about 12 feet wide and two stories high. It was impossible to record the piano in that room, there was simply way, way too much reflection. Treating the room properly would have completely pissed off my wife. So it was not going to happen. That piano never, ever sounded right in the room. Neither did a high end hi fi system. I moved the hi fi to the den, where it sounded great, but the piano was too large for the den, so it lived where it wasn't the best sounding room.

This is what life is about. Things in rooms they don't belong in. :)

I think my wife would sometimes like to move me out of the rooms she thinks I don't belong in. ;)
 
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So...what was the upshot of this thread? Cat, did you move things around, or what? Solve the problem, or just leave it alone for a while?
 
So...what was the upshot of this thread? Cat, did you move things around, or what? Solve the problem, or just leave it alone for a while?

I managed to negotiate a relocation of the HXDA back to the small bedroom, pleased again with the sound :). Learning to dial in the DG30 some more, but I definitely should experiment more with the surface it sits on, perhaps with these types of isolation pads, or experiment with some alternative locations, that's a big cab so I have to get fairly motivated :).
 
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