Just got a 2 channel H 50 watter

[Deleted member 5962]

Well, got my first PRS amp! I've had it for about a week now. Saw it listed at TGP and knew the seller and that he was local so we worked out a deal.

So far, I absolutely LOVE the clean channel. It is just gorgeous! The verb about 10:00 and knobs wherever you want them for the tone you're going for... always sounds great!

The gain channel... still getting used to it. I am not sure about it yet. I've heard some pretty good things, but so far nothing has blown me away. Plus, I admit that I'm more than a little surprised that with volume and master at noon, it's not really very loud. It doesn't open up until more like 2:00 on the master. I understand the varying volume pot tapers used on amps. The Peavey Classic 30 I had years ago had a touchy spot between 1 and 2 on the volume where it suddenly jumped up to above home volume levels. It went from not loud enough to too loud when about 1/8" turn of the knob. It got louder up to about 4-5 then just got more compressed. But it was louder at 2 (literally 8:00-8;30), and it went to 11, than this amp is at 12:00.

I did turn it up loud last week once while my wife was gone, and it sounded good. But I can't play that loud EVER at home when she's around. And I think it doesn't sound as great at lower (still fairly loud for home) volumes. Seems to not have any balls until you turn it way up.

Any tips, thoughts, or settings to try? It doesn't have much bottom end at even medium volumes.

That said, again the clean channel is really really good. One of the best I've ever heard. I need to find some more love in the gain channel though, if I'm going to keep it.

 

[László]

I see you bought it used. You might want to check the tubes to see whether they're worn, and to see if they're biased correctly; also to see if they're what PRS uses at the factory.

Obviously, where you turn a knob doesn't matter, it's all about getting the sound regardless of whether you have to set the knobs a little higher. But there is also no question that a properly biased amp, with good tubes, and especially the right preamp tubes in the case of a master volume amp, makes a big difference.

Tubes wear, they're consumables, and after a while especially power tubes do poop out.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Hey Les,

Yes, I probably should have said this but didn't want the first post to be a book. It has fresh tubes. It was sent back to the factory recently for another issue and it turned out to be power tubes so they replaced them, and the owner had just put all fresh pre-amp tubes.

My research so far says the cleans are supposed to be Blackface type and I believe that. They are great. I tried to look for reviews at TGP and several there said that the OD channel was good but not great, and some loved it. I'll spend more time with it. Just wondering what the voicing is supposed to be, and what settings people are using. The manual says that with the gain up on the OD channel, the bass needs to stay down around 9:00 and and it doesn't have a lot of bottom end kick with it even up past noon. Guess I was hoping for more gut punch from my first big glass amp. My Mesa V25 has more low end punch at moderate volumes... which I wasn't expecting.

 

[László]

Hey Les,

Yes, I probably should have said this but didn't want the first post to be a book. It has fresh tubes. It was sent back to the factory recently for another issue and it turned out to be power tubes so they replaced them, and the owner had just put all fresh pre-amp tubes.

My research so far says the cleans are supposed to be Blackface type and I believe that. They are great. I tried to look for reviews at TGP and several there said that the OD channel was good but not great, and some loved it. I'll spend more time with it. Just wondering what the voicing is supposed to be, and what settings people are using. The manual says that with the gain up on the OD channel, the bass needs to stay down around 9:00 and and it doesn't have a lot of bottom end kick with it even up past noon. Guess I was hoping for more gut punch from my first big glass amp. My Mesa V25 has more low end punch at moderate volumes... which I wasn't expecting.

What preamp tubes does it have?

I found that the JJ ECC83s is a higher gain, higher volume preamp tube than most others out there. This I confirmed with PRS. Remarkably, the JJ 803s is a lower gain tube, and their ECC 83M is an even lower gain tube. The current Tung-Sols are lower gain. Etc., etc. So it might be worth a little preamp tube experimentation.

Might be worth taking a look-see. Also, I bought some NOS for my DG30, and the first one I put in the V1 sounded really nice clean, but didn't have very much volume or gain when cranked. When I replaced the tube, it was like that scene in Back To The Future, where the protagonist plugs into a gigantic amp and hurls himself across the room!

Finally, I would double check the bias, because bias trim can go out during shipping and transporting the amp.

Not saying you have to actually like the amp, of course -- that's entirely up to you. But it's worth the trouble to make sure everything's up to par. A multimeter costs what, $15 at most?

 

[Deleted member 5962]

I'll see what tubes it has. I can check the bias as well. I have a multimeter.

I'm just hoping from some feedback from other owners, or people who have tried the amp on what they thought of it. I mean, just because it has big glass and iron doesn't mean it's voiced to have big lows. I was just surprised that even with the bass up, it didn't punch the way I thought it would, on the OD channel. It gets loud for sure, and the louder I turn it, the better it sounds.

 

[László]

I mean, just because it has big glass and iron doesn't mean it's voiced to have big lows.

Yup, probably not voiced for that. Most amps voiced to be similar to a vintage style amp do a completely different thing from that, and are more about the midrange.

I misunderstood, and though you were worried that the amp wasn't working properly.

However, low end high gain oomph can easily be accomplished running the right pedal. A Bogner Burnley turned my HXDA into a fire breathing metal amp. That's why I went back to a Fulltone Plimsoul -- that low-endy Mesa Triple Rec thing wasn't what I wanted.

Hey, we all have different needs.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Les, I am not thinking something is wrong, necessarily. I trust the seller, and he had just had it back to PRS for a verb issue. You're probably right. I have a friend with a Dr. Z and it will blow your ear drums out but has no low end at all. LOL I was just hoping for some more low end horsepower from my first 6L6 amp. Maybe an EQ in the loop will fix that...

 

[László]

Maybe an EQ in the loop will fix that...

Possibly, you never know until you try!

On a personal note, I've never been able to get a big low end out of any 6L6 amp running less than 90 watts or so, that going back to my '67 Bassman 50.

 

[Boogie]

Is this a head or combo? If head, what cab/speakers? In my experience, the H really shines with the PRS 2x12 big mouth cab and had plenty of bottom-end. Check your speaker cable, too.

 

[andy474x]

Hi DTR, I'll throw in my 2 cents... coming from someone that has one of the SE amps. I know, I know... but if you read on, it might help. The 2 channel H was originally born as the prototype for the SE amps, so they are very close relatives. PRS liked the prototype so much they made it a USA production model (or so the story goes). Anyways, a lot of what you're describing is the same experience I've had with mine. Do you feel that you don't have much low end, OR that the low end isn't very tight, or both? I have the head and 2x12 setup, and my amp had tons of low end, but it wasn't a well defined, tight bottom. They aren't voiced to be super tight like a Rectifier or similar "heavy" amps. Mine had so much low end that it wouldn't cut in the band, no matter what I did with the bass knobs. I tried a few things, and settled on an MXR 10 band EQ in the loop, with everything 125hz and below turned down. That tightens things up enough to give definition back to the amp. It's not going to put a big thump in your chest at home volumes though. If I have mine at stage volume (past about 2:00 on the master), then it will thump a bit, but at lower volumes, expect a more vintage voiced bass response.

Speaking of volume, are you concerned with the volume of the amp overall, or just the way the knob works? It sounds like it actually works better than the Peavey? Sometimes I think it gets in guitar players' heads when the tone they want doesn't come out of the amp with the knobs where they expect them to be set. As long as it gets what you need somewhere, there is no shame in having something almost dimed, or turned down almost to nothing.

As Les was saying above, I've also been trying out some different preamp tubes in my amp, specifically some JJ 5751's, which are almost identical to 12ax7's but with about 30% less gain. My amp has a TON of gain, more by far than I could ever really need, so these help with that. Also, at crunch levels with 12ax7's, notes and chords have a ragged warble as they trail off - subtle, but enough to drive me nuts once it's in my head. So I have been trying the 5751's, with very good results. The preamp layout is that V1 is the first stage for both channels, and then each channel has a dedicated second preamp tube of its own. A 5751 in V1, and in the V2 of the lead channel, has smoothed that side out considerably. I have another on order soon to replace the other tube for the clean channel. The distorted sounds with 12ax7's do smooth out considerably at high volume, but these 5751's make practice level tones a lot more velvety. So that might be fun for you to try if you want some juicier low-volume tones.

Sorry, that is a few coins over 2 cents! But I hope it helps in some way.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Ok, been getting home late so not much time to check this week, but here's an update. JJ pre- tubes. I have all 1x12 cabs. I went that route so I could more easily experiment with mixing speakers. The amp was plugged into two closed back 1x12 Avatar cube cabs, one with Emi Private Jack, and one with Emi Governor, so a Greenback/V30 mix. This combo sounds great with several of my other amps.

Last night, I switched it over to the cabs I had plugged into my Mesa Mark V25. That is a Mesa Recto 1x12 on top, Avatar V30 semi open back on bottom. While both of these 2 1x12s setups are stacked, and normally the bottom end seems about the same both ways because one V30 cab is sitting on the floor in each stack, it was a BIG change switching over to the other cabs. On the clean channel, the bottom end was almost booming, and I had to turn it down a bit. (Yes, the semi-open back on the floor and not far from the wall is different than the closed back one it sits beside). I couldn't believe how much more bottom end there was though, given that I haven't heard that difference before when switching between these cab stacks when using other amps... maybe that big glass horsepower is finally showing itself a bit.

Switched over to the gain channel and again, much more bottom end! While I wanted a greenback type in the mix for more Marshally gain tones, this speaker setup is much better on the quick initial test. In fact, I was surprised when I first saw that the nice PRS 2x cabs had V30s as I'm reading things like "big, blackface twin type cleans" about the H amp, and the V30s are normally associated with more modern, high gain amps.

What I'm wondering now, is if instead of that killer Scumback M type that I was getting ready to buy, maybe I should look at an H. The other thing is, before buying this amp, I was trying to decide between a veritical or horizontal Mesa 2x12 recto cab. The horizontal is more visually (and practically as well for me) appealing, but it seems there are tons more horizontals out there for sale. When I got the H I thought maybe I'd get a PRS cab instead. Now that I've tried a dual V30 setup, and since they are a few hundred $ cheaper, I'm thinking the Mesa cabs would be great with it, and as of now I"m back to deciding which of them I'd prefer. Unless of course I found a deal on a PRS cab.

 

[henryjurstin13]

As a home player, I really like to lower the effects loop level (without anything plugged in) and crank the master levels. I feel like that really opens/sweetens things up quite a bit...

 

[László]

The other thing is, before buying this amp, I was trying to decide between a veritical or horizontal Mesa 2x12 recto cab. The horizontal is more visually (and practically as well for me) appealing, but it seems there are tons more horizontals out there for sale. When I got the H I thought maybe I'd get a PRS cab instead. Now that I've tried a dual V30 setup, and since they are a few hundred $ cheaper, I'm thinking the Mesa cabs would be great with it, and as of now I"m back to deciding which of them I'd prefer. Unless of course I found a deal on a PRS cab.

The reason that more horizontal Mesa cabs are for sale is simply that there are many more horizontal Mesa cabs made and sold to customers, so it's natural that you'll see more for sale.

I had a 2x12 horizontal Recto cab for my 50 watt HXDA (it had been bought to go with my old Mark V 90 watt amp). It had the stock V-30s and it sounded fantastic with the HXDA. In fact, the PRS Big Mouth cab also has the V-30s and is of similar dimensions, so my guess is that it'd be a good match.

I've said in other posts on the forum that I'm not a fan of the Avatar cabs; in fact my main tone complaint about the 4x12 Avatar that was in my studio for a while was a very mushy sounding bottom end and lack of clarity, even with the V-30s it came with. So I would not buy custom speakers like the Scumbacks and put them in an Avatar cab. I think it'd be a waste of good speakers.

Two important things to keep in mind:

1. The birch ply PRS cabs (and the Mesa Recto cab) have a tighter and punchier bottom end than the pine PRS cabs., and a crisper top end. I have two of the pine PRS cabs, and I love them, but the bottoms are a little more vintage sounding and the highs are more mellow. Sounds like you'd bond well with a birch ply cab.

2. V-30s, as you probably know, need a little break-in time.

At the 30th Anniversary event, I talked with Doug Sewell about speakers, and he reminded me that he and David Grissom went through every speaker on the market, and finally decided that they liked the sound they were getting with V-30s the best for the DG cab. They were truly surprised by that, since the DG amp is very American sounding, very vintage sounding, etc.

I think there's a reason so many amps can cabs come equipped with V-30s; they go very well with a lot of amps and cabs. Yeah, they're not exotic, but they just work.

 

[Bluesboy998]

Best combination I ever had

 

[László]

Best combination I ever had

Looks the part, too! :adore:

 

[Boogie]

I know I sound like a broken record, but the PRS pine 2x12 is the best classic rock cab I've played...defying it's v30s. The Big Mouh sounds very close to the Boogie horiz Recto cab, to me and sounds typically v30 modern, but the pine has completely different dimensions. It sounds crazy, but I'm being sincere. I also have a pair of the old Boogie 2x12 vert half back cabs and they're completely different, yet again. Like comparing potatoes and marmosets. The SuperD thru the 2x12 at full tilt sounds thunderously huge and thru both Boogie 2x12s it's simply destructive!

 

[László]

Like comparing potatoes and marmosets.

I like my marmosets in a potato flan.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Well, I think I've solved my cab questions... pics tonight.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Ok, maybe not "tonight." I got the matching PRS 2x12 Big Mouth cab. Really nice cab!

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[Deleted member 5962]

So, still very low miles on the new speakers, but I admit that last night it sounded pretty good with my C24 59/09s. No EQ in the loop either, just straight amp with some verb and delay. I'm thinking that with the Presence/Resonance mods Brian C has told me about, this might be one killer amp!