Jmod vs. Two Rock

You wouldn't invest in so much quality gear and then just to experiment on your amps phase inverter otherwise.... I mean that would be a poor investment of time and money...RIght? lol. Oh you mean thats so you can play better

I guess you haven’t heard the execrable gear demos and songs I’ve linked here. Every single member of this board can play circles around me. Really. I’m a keyboard player.

The main reason I futzed around with the gear, and bought guitar gear, is because I do ad music for a living, and if I can’t play very well, at least I can be the king of clams with good tone! :)

Also, I hire good session players when necessary.
 
I guess you haven’t heard the execrable gear demos and songs I’ve linked here. Every single member of this board can play circles around me. Really. I’m a keyboard player.

The main reason I futzed around with the gear, and bought guitar gear, is because I do ad music for a living, and if I can’t play very well, at least I can be the king of clams with good tone! :)

Also, I hire good session players when necessary.

Wait a minute...Didnt you play TRs for 12 years? Sounds like you've been playing long enough time to be at least decent. How bad can you be? You just want that crown I think...lol..Be deemed the King. :)

I dunno if I heard anything...think I may have heard a little do dad sound demo thingy with harmonica or something but not sure what it was exactly.. Im not very judgmental anyway. .Even if its not my cup of tea. As long as your happy playing and people dint cringe at your playing. If so, you should just play keys. What type of session players and what for exactly do you hire them for? Your own music or work??? Need any lead solo stuff... let me know. I can work remotely. he he.

So you write commercial adv music for what tv or web or something..is that what you do? ,..Do you happen to know anything about Film and TV music licensing? Please let me know if you do. I have a few questions.

So your a keyboard player, nothing wrong with that. Ever play a Nord stage 3 88 key? I played one at GC ... lost all sense of time...I think that would easily replace all my keys.lol. I really want to get one of those...at some point. Also an old clavinet with a whammy bar kit for kicks. :) But I really loved the Nord. Really the best action keys Ive ever played and worth every dime. IMO.
 
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So you write for what commercial ads on tv or web or something for a living? Thats interesting,...What do you know about Film and TV music licensing? I was thinking of banging out a sweet library of things to see if I can make money doing that. Im as high as I can get in my profession (interactive media forms..Video production, Modeling, Immersive Imaging, UI/UX. Mobile etc.

Yup, livin’ the dream (a little gallows humor there!).

Mostly TV ad stuff, but also web, International auto shows (lots of GMC, Cadillac, Chevy, Ford, Chrysler, Buick, Lincoln, VW), dance ensembles, TV documentaries, etc. The website (listed in my signature) has an ad reel with some of the work. My partner also does sound design and audio mixing for TV/film.

I do know a fair amount about music licensing; ad agencies often ask me to help them negotiate synchronization licenses with labels and publishers for hit songs, and I’ve licensed my own work. I get asked to guest lecture about it at the university and law school level every so often, which is fun!

Why, I’m the Most Interesting Man In The World! ;)

Ever play a Nord stage 3 88 key?

Yes. One of the best out there for live performance, which is what it’s designed for, and it’s a great studio MIDI controller.

For recording work, its onboard sounds aren’t competitive with some of the more elaborate sample libraries or soft synths in terms of horsepower, range, complexity, etc. If you play keys out, however, it’s fabulous.
 
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Yup, livin’ the dream (a little gallows humor there!).

Mostly TV ad stuff, but also web, International auto shows, dance ensembles, etc., and some TV features. The website (listed in my signature) has an ad reel with some of the work.

I do know a fair amount about music licensing; ad agencies often ask me to help them negotiate synchronization licenses with labels and publishers for hit songs, and I’ve licensed my own work as well.

Nice! I have some questions about the TV Film licensing.... Im taking my mother out for lunch for her birthday. Ill catch up later if you don't mind asking you a few questions.

Yes. One of the best out there for live performance, which is what it’s designed for mostly, and it’s a great studio MIDI controller.

For recording work, its onboard sounds aren’t competitive with some of the more elaborate sample libraries or soft synths, in terms of horsepower, range, complexity, etc. If you play keys out, however, it’s fabulous.

Yeah it felt really nice. I didn't have time to explore its hardware capabilities so I can understand that. Really nice playing piece of gear though. Enjoy the day!
 
Nice! I have some questions about the TV Film licensing.... Im taking my mother out for lunch for her birthday. Ill catch up later if you don't mind asking you a few questions.



Yeah it felt really nice. I didn't have time to explore its hardware capabilities so I can understand that. Really nice playing piece of gear though. Enjoy the day!

Happy b’day to your mom!

Here’s my music business advice: Run, do not walk, away from the music business devil as fast as you can. Digital media kills it more horribly every five nanoseconds, and that’s only this nanosecond, because the nanoseconds get smaller every nanosecond.

In fact, there is already no point in creating music at all, except that a few hard-headed dolts like me suit up every morning to go play Smash-Head-Into-Wall for smaller and smaller slices of pie.

“Hey, look! I won the pie!”

“That’s a pretty small pie, Les.”

“Yeah, but I won.”

“WTF happened to your head?”
 
Here’s my music business advice: Run, do not walk, away from the music business devil as fast as you can. Digital media kills it more horribly every five nanoseconds, and that’s only this nanosecond, because the nanoseconds get smaller every nanosecond.

What do you mean by run from the music business devil? Stay away from music business entirely?

So your talking about tv commercials, I saw your site. Not exactly my target but ok. Your portfolio is quite good actually. So Artifact is your company? Or the co you work for. Judging by the site Im assuming it its yours.

Anyway well I was thinking more of things like film lisencing......here is a repetitive tune I recall hearing in more than one film and recognized it quickly when I heard it again during the Collateral film. Im pretty certain the creator of this quick jam (looped it) and made some money. He also licensed it, instead of selling which obviously did well for him.

https://le0pard13.com/2012/02/24/same-tune-different-movie-ready-steady-go-by-paul-oakenfold/

Ive done adv. work for Turner, Victoria Secrets and a lot of Conde Naste companies (in NYC) so Ive done it all in advertising..You think Id be content but Im at the cross roads in life and well I often wonder what if I was a full time session player that also did film and tv licensing and continue playing with my band for fun? Ive done some session work but It was a small job. We don't play original music for the money (as long as I can pay my bills) Im sure you realize this. I also don't care as much about the money or I wouldn't be talking to you about this.

My bass player, however is 100 percent pro. All he does is play music for a living and Im envious of how free he is. He says he's not and is a slave. No he doesn't make as much money as I do but he makes a decent living and has a beautiful wife and nice house so at least he gets to play all the time.. He is a session player, and also in a wedding band and yet he plays with us despite the fact we make next to nothing. He's toured throughout Asia as well before us.....Hes done what I consider to be exciting but has the same attitude as you do. I never understood why he even plays with us but his response is he loves playing out with us more than anyone and loves "our" music. Well I couldn't agree more lol. (Joking)

Ive done some session work for no names but thats about it...chump change.. I never dove right into music business beyond being a song writer and guitarist for the band and some small session work for unknown locals.

I need to make a decision. Im divorced now and so Im free to do what I want. I could always try it, and then go back to advertising if it doesn't work out. Or I could try it on the side and see what happens. Im looking for advice and also have questions about licensing. Im not doing this until were out of the studio so no rush but I need to make a decision.

Thanks for the warning I guess. Ive heard it all before however. Ever since I was a kid in music school.
 
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So your talking about tv commercials, I saw your site. Not exactly my target but ok. Your portfolio is quite good actually. So Artifact is your company? Or the co you work for. Judging by the site Im assuming it its yours.

Anyway well I was thinking more of things like film lisencing......here is a repetitive tune I recall hearing in more than one film and recognized it quickly when I heard it again during the Collateral film. Im pretty certain the creator of this quick jam (looped it) and made some money. He also licensed it, instead of selling which obviously did well for him.

https://le0pard13.com/2012/02/24/same-tune-different-movie-ready-steady-go-by-paul-oakenfold/
.

I had a longer reply but deleted it. Yes, my company. I left my law practice in 1990 to found it.

No, when I talk about the music biz devil I’m not talking about TV commercials. TV commercial work is weird enough, but compared to other things it’s relatively sane, and the ad folks I deal with are super-nice.

Ad work (here I mean post-scored, custom music) is substantially more lucrative than 99% of TV program licensing, both in terms of initial budget, and due to repetition of ad placements, the broadcast performance royalties are better. However, everything is multiple-demo’d, and the competition is fierce.

TV licenses:

In TV programming, being the composer of record is where the money is, though that’s declining due to reality TV.

The going rate for a one-shot TV sync license for a show is laughably low. I’ve seen network shows pick up a sync license from a major publisher for under $500. You’ll need a publishing deal (with a major) to even get that far and be taken seriously. Unless you have an “in.”

Films:

You mention Oakenfold. Paul Oakenfold has an international following in electronic music. The guy’s got Grammys and works with artists like U2 and Madonna.

I’d wager that the music supervisor, or film editor, or director was already familiar with his work, and thought it worked with the scene. They probably cut the picture to the track, and then got the synch license.

However, without a wider audience for your work, a record and pub deal, you unfortunately won’t have much film music opportunity. Studio film music supervisors spend for the more established recording artists, or for latest-greatest-hippest major label acts with legs.

The little indie filmmakers are more approachable, but there’s usually no budget.

The unfortunate truth is that there’s so much music, and so many libraries out there available for nickels and dimes, that most of the gigs aren’t worth getting.

You can get the worthwhile film licenses if you don’t really need to get them, because you’re already successful in music. Catch 22.

Not complaining here, I’ve been very lucky and love what I do. But most folks find themselves running into a brick wall head first, and afterward the music devil keeps dragging them back in for yet another run at the wall.

If you want to swim, dive right in. Don’t say I didn’t warn ya. :cool:
 
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I had a longer reply but deleted it. Yes, my company. I left my law practice in 1990 to found it.

No, when I talk about the music biz devil I’m not talking about TV commercials. TV commercial work is weird enough, but compared to other things it’s relatively sane, and the ad folks I deal with are super-nice.

Ad work (here I mean post-scored, custom music) is substantially more lucrative than 99% of TV program licensing, both in terms of initial budget, and due to repetition of ad placements, the broadcast performance royalties are better. However, everything is multiple-demo’d, and the competition is fierce.

TV licenses:

In TV programming, being the composer of record is where the money is, though that’s declining due to reality TV.

The going rate for a one-shot TV sync license for a show is laughably low. I’ve seen network shows pick up a sync license from a major publisher for under $500. You’ll need a publishing deal (with a major) to even get that far and be taken seriously. Unless you have an “in.”

Films:

You mention Oakenfold. Paul Oakenfold has an international following in electronic music. The guy’s got Grammys and works with artists like U2 and Madonna.

I’d wager that the music supervisor, or film editor, or director was already familiar with his work, and thought it worked with the scene. They probably cut the picture to the track, and then got the synch license.

However, without a wider audience for your work, a record and pub deal, you unfortunately won’t have much film music opportunity. Studio film music supervisors spend for the more established recording artists, or for latest-greatest-hippest major label acts with legs.

The little indie filmmakers are more approachable, but there’s usually no budget.

The unfortunate truth is that there’s so much music, and so many libraries out there available for nickels and dimes, that most of the gigs aren’t worth getting.

You can get the worthwhile film licenses if you don’t really need to get them, because you’re already successful in music. Catch 22.

Not complaining here, I’ve been very lucky and love what I do. But most folks find themselves running into a brick wall head first, and afterward the music devil keeps dragging them back in for yet another run at the wall.

If you want to swim, dive right in. Don’t say I didn’t warn ya. :cool:

I pretty much expected an answer like that. Im more or less "fishing".. If I failed to mention, the type of people responsible for hiring you are guys just like me...so you may understand at least my desire. lol

Ironically, im in the digital media field. Ive worked on hundreds of videos as both Art Director and Creative Director and worked for major agencies. Having a music background helped me open logic up and save the company some cash for interactive type work if the budget was pressing. Not that I just do video but nonetheless. It seems like being realistic is what I should stick too and have been so since my flip from music major to advertising. lol. I am pretty sought after in digital media so if I wanted to do exactly what you do...I would have zero problems getting into that...I believe. I have probably as many or maybe more contacts than you do, believe it or not. Its just nothing that interests me.

That being said...no real desire to do digital media audio for adv....I actually just want to do my own thing with music full time so it was something to ponder and research...I do have a couple of contacts like with Discovery channel and someone I freelanced edited a few times a few documentaries on tv films on the editing side.... I could reach out to them but thats about it. That being said Ive grown too high in my profession in some ways. I miss being middle management art director who got involved doing the actual work with whatever team was under me but I also above all would love to play my own music for a living so I could spend more and more time in the music field...not just with my band and not for commercial adv.. Ive been in digital and interactive media for a long time. Since I started my career and only a few years shy of me playing guitar at 15. I suppose I actually started before "interactive media" even really existed as it does now.

That being said...
Good to know what you do however. I will certainly keep you in mind for future work. :)

Thanks for the advice. I suppose since this isn't the first Ive heard more or less the same thing through my research, I will find my way of being content being pseudo semi pro and stick with agency work as I do now (and the money) and just be happy I can afford to make a decent living......and still make time to play! I just wanted to write for a living and step away from interactive and digital media!!!! Spending all my time my way and the rest with my group would be a dream!!! Advertising is out however. Im already in deep and wanted to try something new with music only that wasn't commercial based...I suppose your right. :)

Thanks! Yeah you should not have deleted whatever you wrote. I would have read it all but I get the point. Oh well! lol. :) You can't always get what you want!
 
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Advertising is out however. Im already in deep and wanted to try something new with music only that wasn't commercial based...I suppose your right. :)

Thanks! Yeah you should not have deleted whatever you wrote. I would have read it all but I get the point. Oh well! lol. :) You can't always get what you want!

I totally get where you’re coming from. My son felt the same way after he graduated from Michigan’s music school; he didn’t want to do ads. I think that was his last resort/backup plan.

He moved to LA out of school, and has had terrific things happen. I’m totally jealous, but, you know...also proud of him for having the guts to do it.

I know you don’t want to score ads, but since you have the contacts, and are making music anyway, you could always put together a catalog of tunes and offer it to your clients. That certainly wouldn’t prevent trying to license to TV and film. They either license it, or not, but you’re not getting your knees scraped up begging for the work, and if they license it they aren’t going to drive you nuts “fixing” it, it’ll be “as-is.” Just sayin’. However, I do sympathize.
 
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He moved to LA out of school, and has had terrific things happen. I’m totally jealous, but, you know...also proud of him for having the guts to do it.

I know a lot of musician friends that moved out west (LA, orange county etc.) when we were really young..A lot of them came back home.lol You should be proud! It def. takes guts.
 
I know a lot of musician friends that moved out west (LA, orange county etc.) when we were really young..A lot of them came back home.lol You should be proud! It def. takes guts.

It does. But the way I figure it, there’s a lot to be said for giving it a shot, regardless of the outcome.

No shame in deciding the chase isn’t for you, and coming home.
 
It does. But the way I figure it, there’s a lot to be said for giving it a shot, regardless of the outcome.

No shame in deciding the chase isn’t for you, and coming home.

I was an active failure in the music business for twenty plus years and ruined my finances, health, and relationships because of it.

It was totally worth it, and given the opportunity to do it all over again, I would in a heartbeat.

While there are some things I’ve seen and experienced that money could buy.... it would take a truckload of it.
 
It does. But the way I figure it, there’s a lot to be said for giving it a shot, regardless of the outcome.

No shame in deciding the chase isn’t for you, and coming home.

I was an active failure in the music business for twenty plus years and ruined my finances, health, and relationships because of it.

It was totally worth it, and given the opportunity to do it all over again, I would in a heartbeat.

While there are some things I’ve seen and experienced that money could buy.... it would take a truckload of it.

I know several people who went to Nashville and stayed for years and never could get a break. One in particular was clearly more talented than most of the "new stars" that came out of there over a decade or so, but didn't fit "the mold" if you know what I mean.

I've had a couple brushes with trying to make a career of it. Been invited to start bands or join bands that were either touring or going to Nashville. Time or circumstances were never right for me to try it. Now I'm just holding out til Les and I get our Old Guys Metal Reunion Band up and running.
 
p.s. I thought we had two guitar players, but it looks like we need to find one since we'll both be busy covering other instruments.
 
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