I'VE HAD IT WITH THE STRAT/TELE WORLD!

[helmi]

Just had to post a little rant. i play 3 prs's through an older marshall head and 4x10. not a metal sounding marshall, but a heavy blues rock tone, but i also do some clean "warm" stuff also.( a guitar's volume knob really is a wonderful thing when you learn to use it right) i have owned many guitars in 30+ years of guitar buying. this morning i was trying to find a good video on the new xotic SP compressor, (i have owned several xotic pedals, and think their stuff is great quality) with someone using some humbuckers through a nice heavy gain amp. well, unlessed i missed it, or it was a very short snippet, I might as well go out and try to find hoffa's body, it would be easier. and to be honest, this latest foray was probably just the straw that broke the camel's back, after years of this frustration building. does anyone else get tired of the constant strat/tele, tele/strat, strat/tele," fingernails on a blackboard", "metal rake across your eye sockets", "ice pick in the forehead" barrage of winy, twangy, spanky clean fender sounds you hear on just about EVVVVVVVVVEEEEEERRRRRRYYYYYYYYY thing!!! in demo's for gear. i'm not saying prs guitars are the only thing worth playing out there, ( though that's all i prefer anymore) there's a lot of great guitars being made. why cant people who make product demo's using a wider range of guitars, amps, and tones for their products. i mean, do they get a kickback from fender? (being sarcastic) is it just me, or does it aggrivate anyone else? if i never heard that winy-a$$ed, wanker,"twangy" guitar, through a "ice pick" clean fender amp, like in a gazillion demo's again, it would be way too soon. is their "anti-twang" therapist out there, or support groups for this kind of thing. my worst nightmare would be, like in clockwork orange, being subdued in a strait jacket, with hours of clean twang blaring from a stereo system, while i'm being held captive in a small room! any sympathizer's out there, or am i just starting to sound like mr. blaren?

 

[Rango]

Here ya go, a little "therapy" - a gear demo without a "F" product in sight. Very nice demo's from one of our "Locals":

 

[Rider1260]

Chris ( CRGTR ) did a great job on the demos for my pedals ( there are a bunch )
even his tele stuff has girth ( balls ) I really like the demos with his Dallas from Hell and PRSi
( and my pedals )

This one has the 408 standard that I have now and the Dallas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cID7C3SGAcU

 

[Egads]

Look at it this way: they are using the lowest common denominator! If it works for a run of the mill Strat or Tele (or muddy LP), it's gonna rip with a great guitar. Don't get me wrong. I love my two Teles, and if I find the right Strat I may bite.

My demo pet peeve is when a set of pickups are only demoed gained out. Yeah, that's one sound, and I use it, but cover the bases!

 

[Jedi]

I know this is a PRS forum, however the reason that most use Strat / Tele/LP for most demos is because they are the biggest selling models...thus reaching the largest audience. Also, while I own a DGT and love it, I completely disagree that the Strat, Tele, LP is the lowest common denominator and a bit of an uneducated comment. Everything that PRS does is derivative of a Gibson & Fender product. And while Paul is trying to push the envelope and is successfully, in my opinion it still is a hybrid of the "so called - lowest common denominators.

 

[László]

I know this is a PRS forum, however the reason that most use Strat / Tele/LP for most demos is because they are the biggest selling models...thus reaching the largest audience. Also, while I own a DGT and love it, I completely disagree that the Strat, Tele, LP is the lowest common denominator and a bit of an uneducated comment. Everything that PRS does is derivative of a Gibson & Fender product. And while Paul is trying to push the envelope and is successfully, in my opinion it still is a hybrid of the "so called - lowest common denominators.

I agree that a Strat and Tele aren't lowest common denominator, but I think Egads simply meant that using them makes the demos appeal to greater numbers of players, most of whom are familiar with the sound of those guitars.

As for PRS making a product derived from Fender and Gibson, well, Fender and Gibson didn't invent the electric guitar. Their ideas were also derivative of other designs.

Here is the 1947 Bigsby that was made for Merle Travis by the guy who invented the Bigsby trem; this guitar not only predates the first Fenders, there is little doubt that Leo Fender and Gibson were familiar with it. Travis was a popular player and toured with the guitar for 3 years before the first Fender was produced, and according to The Fender Book, Leo and George both saw Travis play the guitar live.

Note both the headstock shape, with its six in-line tuners, and the body shape, with the florentine cutaway and proportions, as both later turned up on certain, shall we say, iconic guitars:



Some 12 years earlier, in 1935, this guitar was on the market and produced by the company that later became Rickenbacker:



My point is that Paul Smith, like Fender and Gibson, wasn't going to invent the electric guitar. That had already been done. Fender and Gibson may have become the giants in the game, but it wasn't their game to start with. And their most iconic solid body models are clearly derived from something else.

After all, once the electric guitar had been invented, all anyone could do was be evolutionary. Either refine the idea, or go and work on a different kind of project.

So it's a little unfair to say that Paul's guitars are somehow any more derivative than anyone else's. The guitar has been evolving in its recognizable modern form since at least the time of the Crusades, so really too much credit is given to makers like Fender and Gibson, or even Martin, etc.

There have been lots of cooks in the guitar kitchen. Paul is one of the better ones.

 

[vchizzle]

Good stuff Les.

I agree that a Strat and Tele aren't lowest common denominator, but I think Egads simply meant that using them makes the demos appeal to greater numbers of players, most of whom are familiar with the sound of those guitars.

As for PRS making a product derived from Fender and Gibson, well, Fender and Gibson didn't invent the electric guitar. Their ideas were also derivative of other designs.

Here is the 1947 Bigsby that was made for Merle Travis by the guy who invented the Bigsby trem; this guitar not only predates the first Fenders, there is little doubt that Leo Fender and Gibson were familiar with it. Travis was a popular player and toured with the guitar for 3 years before the first Fender was produced, and according to The Fender Book, Leo and George both saw Travis play the guitar live.

Note both the headstock shape, with its six in-line tuners, and the body shape, with the florentine cutaway and proportions, as both later turned up on certain, shall we say, iconic guitars:



Some 12 years earlier, in 1935, this guitar was on the market and produced by the company that later became Rickenbacker:



My point is that Paul Smith, like Fender and Gibson, wasn't going to invent the electric guitar. That had already been done. Fender and Gibson may have become the giants in the game, but it wasn't their game to start with. And their most iconic solid body models are clearly derived from something else.

After all, once the electric guitar had been invented, all anyone could do was be evolutionary. Either refine the idea, or go and work on a different kind of project.

So it's a little unfair to say that Paul's guitars are somehow any more derivative than anyone else's. The guitar has been evolving in its recognizable modern form since at least the time of the Crusades, so really too much credit is given to makers like Fender and Gibson, or even Martin, etc.

There have been lots of cooks in the guitar kitchen. Paul is one of the better ones.

 

[hippietim]

The real question is why the heck do you want a compressor for a heavy blues rock Marshall tone? Once you have pushed an amp/pedal to the point of overdrive, you are by definition compressing it already. The only thing a compressor will do is precompress it and probably add noise.

 

[rugerpc]

I know this is a PRS forum, however the reason that most use Strat / Tele/LP for most demos is because they are the biggest selling models...thus reaching the largest audience. Also, while I own a DGT and love it, I completely disagree that the Strat, Tele, LP is the lowest common denominator and a bit of an uneducated comment. Everything that PRS does is derivative of a Gibson & Fender product. And while Paul is trying to push the envelope and is successfully, in my opinion it still is a hybrid of the "so called - lowest common denominators.

As Les pointed out, neither Fender nor Gibson are the be all, end all of guitar design or innovation. One thing that they DO have in common is relative stagnation and a less than desirable attention to detail, fit and finish. Both Fender and Gibson enjoy a huge part of the market, but it isn't because of their superiority. It's more akin to mass and a steep hill.

My education in quality in guitars came a few years ago in a Guitar Center. A friend and I were browsing and he was jonesing a bit for a Les Paul. We pulled down a $4K LP with a "AAA" top and were immediately struck with just how poorly the guitar was assembled and finished. Swirl marks, Uneven finish. Cracks between the neck and body, PLASTIC binding. Sharp frets. Poorly fitting electronics covers. Raised inlays on the fretboard. We looked at other examples. All of them had similar flaws. Inexcusable for a guitar in that price range.

We compared it to an $800 SE. The SE was flawless.

We compared it to a USA CU22. The CU22 was flawless.

We could have had both the CU22, the SE and another SE for the price of the LP. And I haven't even touched on the improvements Paul has made over the years like the PRS tremolo, nut materials, brass saddles, etc.

So, while you may see PRS guitars as derivative, as hybrids, I see them as evolution.

 

[László]

The real question is why the heck do you want a compressor for a heavy blues rock Marshall tone? Once you have pushed an amp/pedal to the point of overdrive, you are by definition compressing it already. The only thing a compressor will do is precompress it and probably add noise.

Good points, and yet a lot depends on the gain setting for the amp and what else you're running. For the record, I don't use a compressor pedal, but I'm familiar with them and have used them on my board.

A comp pedal can tame a spiky wah, or bring up the modulation of a trem pedal. Some players like them for how they reduce the dynamic range of their picking if they want a very even sound and don't have the gain cranked too high.

 

[garrett]

Firstly, I remind you that the Enter and Shift keys are your friends.

Secondly, I think you need a dose of John 5.

 

[Egads]

Didn't mean to start a rant-storm with some tongue-in-cheek. As I said, I have a couple Teles, and one is as fine of a guitar as has come out of Fullerton. I love it for what it is AND what it isn't.

And be careful calling someone uneducated, especially based on one post on an online forum. That's a like saying a youtube video of a an amp demo is a perfect representation of how the amp is going to sound in person.

Thanks, Les. Well said, as usual.

 

[RichardJ]

I suspect that because the the guitar market was dominated by two brands and three or four models it is what we heard and wanted to sound like. My guitar hero's pretty much all played Strats and that is what I wanted too. Many years of attempting to play have widened my tastes in guitars but fundamentally if you want true Strat, Tele or even Les Paul tones there is only one place to look. I still have a few Strats, my Tele needs are mostly taken care of by a Parker Southern Nitefly and for 'bucker stuff I have my CE. I just don't see how you can dismiss brands or models when they have laid the foundation for what people like Paul Reed Smith and Ken Parker have picked up and run with to give us what we have now. As ever, just my 2c.

 

[frankb56]

I like to think of PRS guitars as the Apple and the F & G's as the Microsoft's of the world. But be careful....Microsoft is making a come back.. It's a dog eat dog world out there.