Is it time to start considering solid state?

I identify as a He-Haw








I almost bought a seymour duncan powerstage to run an almost rebought creamback, but instead got a line 6 catalyst amp.
Don't tell JK R but it has no valves but identifies as a SS/pretendy tube.

Try one if you are in the market for something like this, they are surprisingly good and don't break the bank
 
My takeaway is that if the Berlin Wall hadn’t come down, we’d all be playing JC-120s. Seems ok to me either way.
 
There are definite undertones in Mike Matthew's message. I think he has been seeing the writing on the wall for some time. The biggest consumers of tube guitar amps and tubes in general are Baby Boomers and early Gen-Xers. They grew up with tube-type consumer electronics. The youngest Baby Boomers will be 58 this year. Tube-type gear is heavy; mainly, due to their inefficiency and the use of linear power supplies that require heavy power transformers. Weight and an aging consumer population are not a good recipe for remaining in business, let alone sustained growth. Modern class D power amps with their high efficiency and switching power supplies weigh a tiny fraction of their tube-type counterparts. Not a day goes back where I do not hear of an older gigging musician who switched from using a heavy tube amp to a modern class D-based guitar rig due to the weight savings alone. Younger guitarists are not as wed to tube-type gear as are older musicians. They do not have any nostalgia for it. Tube-type gear is more of a novelty and an abstraction to them because they grew up with iPhones. It is not that they cannot appreciate tube-type gear. It is just that they are experiencing it out of context instead of in a world where tube hi-fi, radios, and TVs were common place, a world were one could test and buy tubes at a local drug store.
 
Last edited:
I’ve been using a modeler for longer than most for live gigging, and I can tell you it’s still more of an oddity on the pro playing circuit than anything tube driven. It’s not as difficult dealing with sound companies now, and getting them to understand I don’t need a mic on my cab, just give me the cable… but I see tube amps more than anything else by a very wide margin, no matter the age.

Listen, I love the convenience my modeler gives me. I see more now than I used to. But tube amps are still the thing among pro players of all ages. Modeling is making inroads to that, and the I think younger players are more open to it as an option, but it’s still a minority. Yes, it’s old technology. Like a six-stringed guitar, it still works better for what it does than anything else. That’s why they try to model it. But it’s hardly the domain of boomers and Luddites.

I‘ve no iron in this fire, I literally play both week in and out. Love both, and have uses for which I wouldn’t want to give up either of these options, including using them together. It’s just pointless to try to write an epitaph on something that’s not even sick, much less dead. Enjoy what you like and be glad you have options!
 
My Gibson Goldtone is still the winner in terms of beautiful cleans. I have been fooling around with a DV Mark Micro Jazz head, which is ok. The Polytone Mini Brute I just bought is better than the DV Mark and truly nice for Jazz tones.

The Goldtone however slays, and it will always have a place in my house.
 
Personally, I have 'never' not considered Solid State options as I don't believe they are 'inferior', just a different option that can still sound great and may well be the 'best' tool for the situation.

I know how 'great' a tube amp sounds and more importantly 'feels' but its also a lot heavier and more 'fragile'. Also requires more long term investment to keep it running too. With Solid State/Modelling alternatives, these can be more robust, a lot smaller and more 'reliable' too so it may well be the 'better' tool for Fly Gigs, for clinics, for practice (in tour buses, hotel rooms, backstage, bedrooms etc) than using a 'tube' amp.

Everyone is different, have different preferences, budgets, needs/wants etc as well as different paths musically and different stages ftheir musical journey. So whilst a 'tube' amp may well be the 'best' (or 'ONLY') tool for one person, another may be better off with Solid State, with a Modeller or even a mix of options for 'different' situations.

A Helix for example maybe a LOT easier to start your own recording - much easier than trying to isolate and mic up a Cab and use that to record, a solid state amp maybe a lot lighter and easier to carry up and down steps, load up in a car etc for 'gigs' or maybe use a modeller on a pedal board and go direct to PA with a 'consistent' sound regardless of venue size etc.

There are Pro's and Con's to both. I'm sure if the Electric Guitar had come out after the 'Transistor' had replaced Valves in basically EVERY other product, then I think that Valve amps wouldn't be on the pedestal they are today. If anything, I'd doubt anyone would want that 'antiquated' technology that's not as reliable, heavy and requiring more maintenance -as well as being more expensive. Its like wanting a relatively small 4:3 CRT TV instead of a 16:9 giant 4k OLED because that's what they 'grew' up with, or see in old movie/shows etc. However, everything these days is 'Digital', so whether you use a Valve amp or not in your recording, it will be 'converted' to digital.

As I said right at the start, Its more important to me to have the 'best' tool for the situation and the 'best' tool for me doesn't mean its the 'best' tool for someone else - even in a similar situation. For example, the best tool for me to play/record at home, anytime of the day/night, any guitar 'tone', FX etc may well be my Helix, but another person may find a Valve Amp is the best tool for them to do the same thing. Different styles of guitars sound, feel and play differently so why not have different types of Amps too in your 'tool' box?
 
RickP said:
Listen, I love the convenience my modeler gives me. I see more now than I used to. But tube amps are still the thing among pro players of all ages. Modeling is making inroads to that, and the I think younger players are more open to it as an option, but it’s still a minority. Yes, it’s old technology. Like a six-stringed guitar, it still works better for what it does than anything else. That’s why they try to model it. But it’s hardly the domain of boomers and Luddites.
Click to expand...
That may be the case where you live, but it is not what I am seeing here in the Baltimore/Washington DC Metro Area and the Mid-Atlantic by extension. We have have a very tech savvy population of early adopters. We also have the highest concentration of college graduates in the nation. It is very difficult to compete here without a college degree of some sort. A college degree is almost like having a high school diploma in other parts of the country. It barely opens the door. I have seen crazy things like young guitarists using a cell phone for amp like with iRig.

I knew things were changing in a big way when I saw Mike McHenry using a Quilter 101 and cab last year. Mike is fairly old school. He has been using a blackface Bassman that was installed into a 1x12 combo cabinet for a very long time. Timmy Metz also switched from using a Rockerverb to using a Katana. JD Bradshaw, a staple at Experience, has been using Quilter amps for a few years. Sure there are others who are holding on to their tube gear, but guys like me are no longer taking work because, for the most part, tube amp repair has been a side hustle/hobby for engineers and technicians for over twenty years, so finding a qualified local repair guy who will listen and do board-level repairs is becoming more difficult. The major repair shop in the area usually does entire board swaps, which can be costly. More and more bands who gig the Annapolis area are doing so with silent stages. It no longer matter of if solid-state and digital modeling will replace tube-type gear, but more so a matter of when.

In my humble opinion (and it is just that), Russia is not coming back from this fiasco any time soon. They will be a pariah on the world stage until things change in a big way in that country, which means that I would not bank on new production tubes coming out of Russia any time in the next two years at least. We still have a lot of old and new production stock, but that stock is being hoarded like toilet paper, flour, and yeast was during 2020. Guitar Center has pulled all of their tubes from their shelves. The remaining stock that is for sale will command a premium price. I will give JJ five years at most before the cost of labor makes tube production too expensive in that country. That is part of the problem Mike Matthews has been facing, the rising cost of labor. Labor arbitrage only works as long as the country in which labor is being arbitraged has limited options for workers.
 
Em7 said:
That may be the case where you live, but it is not what I am seeing here in the Baltimore/Washington DC Metro Area and the Mid-Atlantic by extension. We have have a very tech savvy population of early adopters. We also have the highest concentration of college graduates in the nation. It is very difficult to compete here without a college degree of some sort. A college degree is almost like having a high school diploma in other parts of the country. It barely opens the door. I have seen crazy things like young guitarists using a cell phone for amp like with iRig.

I knew things were changing in a big way when I saw Mike McHenry using a Quilter 101 and cab last year. Mike is fairly old school. He has been using a blackface Bassman that was installed into a 1x12 combo cabinet for a very long time. Timmy Metz also switched from using a Rockerverb to using a Katana. JD Bradshaw, a staple at Experience, has been using Quilter amps for a few years. Sure there are others who are holding on to their tube gear, but guys like me are no longer taking work because, for the most part, tube amp repair has been a side hustle/hobby for engineers and technicians for over twenty years, so finding a qualified local repair guy who will listen and do board-level repairs is becoming more difficult. The major repair shop in the area usually does entire board swaps, which can be costly. More and more bands who gig the Annapolis area are doing so with silent stages. It no longer matter of if solid-state and digital modeling will replace tube-type gear, but more so a matter of when.

In my humble opinion (and it is just that), Russia is not coming back from this fiasco any time soon. They will be a pariah on the world stage until things change in a big way in that country, which means that I would not bank on new production tubes coming out of Russia any time in the next two years at least. We still have a lot of old and new production stock, but that stock is being hoarded like toilet paper, flour, and yeast was during 2020. Guitar Center has pulled all of their tubes from their shelves. The remaining stock that is for sale will command a premium price. I will give JJ five years at most before the cost of labor makes tube production too expensive in that country. That is part of the problem Mike Matthews has been facing, the rising cost of labor. Labor arbitrage only works as long as the country in which labor is being arbitraged has limited options for workers.
Click to expand...
Good points! The education levels you reference likely do influence the tech-seeking musician scene, and it is a world away from the touring circuits of the southern parts of the country. Blues, southern rock, country, and the more blue collar heartland music are big on tradition, even in the university bands. So you’re points are applicable to your area, and mine to mine, as might be suspected.

Time will tell on the Russian situation. While I don’t support the invasion of other countries, obviously, it’s not the Russian factory worker that needs retribution. That makes me hope for a way back to sanity where those guys can get back to work and the stupidity can stop. Some of our greatest trading partners were once our sworn enemies. Times change. And, of course, time will tell how this all shakes out.
 
Em7 said:
It no longer matter of if solid-state and digital modeling will replace tube-type gear, but more so a matter of when.
Click to expand...
So, reading between the lines, what I'm hearing is that one of the big boys like say Fender, needs to open a tube production plant in Mexico. I'm all for that.
 
DreamTheaterRules said:
So, reading between the lines, what I'm hearing is that one of the big boys like say Fender, needs to open a tube production plant in Mexico. I'm all for that.
Click to expand...
It is not going to happen. Vacuum tube production has an entire metallury ecosystem that is not easily replicated due to the fact that the equipment has not been manufactured for decades. I cannot believe how tightly people are holding onto outdated technology. Musicians were not this conservative in the late eighties/early nineties when musical equipment manufacturers were moving away from tube-type gear.
 
Plus, Fender has already signaled its intention to exit tube amp production when possible. Why do you think they released Tone Master amps? Manufacturing tube-type gear is not a viable long-term business model for anyone, but those who are running hobby businesses building clones and other boutique-style tube amps.
 
Em7 said:
I cannot believe how tightly people are holding onto outdated technology.
Click to expand...
You seem to have a real issue understanding that people have opinions that differ from yours, and that there’s not one thing “wrong” with them if they do.

If someone likes something, why not hang on to it? If something serves their purpose, why not continue to use it? Why switch for no reason? Why not advocate for people to continue servicing that item?

Oddly, I’ve seen the same “if you don’t see it like me, you're inferior/something’s wrong with your hearing/you’re mentally incompetent or unbalanced“ diatribe from staunch tube amp users. I use both, and catch it from both sides… I’m not only weird, I’m a double-agent!

You make valid points on the possibilities. Your assumptions on the future of Russian or other tube manufacture have merit, and time will tell the tale on how accurate you might or might not be. But you really should allow more room in your thought processes for differing opinions without feeling the need to assail their reasons.
 
DreamTheaterRules said:
I'm only holding on to the tone. As soon as anything else is "as good" I'll gladly move on. :)
Click to expand...
Noting that like Steve, I play my modelers 95% of the time. So while I don't have a "lifetime stash" of tubes, hopefully this makes them last longer. :)

"Lifetime" being an unknown, at this point, I could be wrong. Maybe I DO have a lifetime stash and just don't know it. :eek:
 
I'm not quite ready to give up my tube amps yet. I have a Fractal FM3 but I've yet to get it to sound as good as the amps I own. If I had no choice I'd be happy with the Fractal. Seeing as I do have a choice, I'll take my SLO or Mark II's over the modeled versions as long as I can.

I might feel entirely different if I needed a variety of sounds.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

E
80s Metal Amp
2 3
Replies
47
Views
837
DISTORT6
DISTORT6
j.a.
Looking for a non-modelling amp
Replies
18
Views
863
TheBlueOne
TheBlueOne
xxxadixxx
New appreciation for the Tremonti's versatility - How has it changed over time?
Replies
4
Views
467
Dimebag11
D
E
Dispelling Tube Amp Myths
2 3 4
Replies
66
Views
4K
John F
John F
László
State Of The Studio
2
Replies
30
Views
952
László
László
Back
Top