Interesting discovery today re: coil split

[Lee Mac]

I play mostly through a Boss Katana and after years of single sound tube amps, am loving all the tonal variations. One thing I noticed about my SE Mira is that, with the Katana, the only noticeable difference between the humbucker mode and split coil mode was volume. Didn't hear that single-coil tone at all. Getting ready to sell my last tube amp (a 2xEL84 with Plexi-style preamp) and plugged in the Mira today for the first time. To my surprise and delight, with the tone knob pulled it sounded like a single coil pickup! I suppose it has to do with the difference in input impedance but whatever it is, at least now I know that the coil split does offer different sounds when used with right amplifier.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

I suppose it has to do with the difference in input impedance

It's really more than that... I'm not saying the affordable SS devices, or the digital ones, can't offer good tones, but one thing that was common to EVERY single one I've tried, is that they are far less transparent than a good tube amp. People talk about the feel of tube amps is the big difference between SS and modeling. I've found the the difference in transparency is just as big a deal as the feel.

The transparency shows everything more clearly. Coil tap, tone or volume rolloff, different wood types, etc. etc. are more clearly defined. The SS and digital devices tend to homogenize those differences. You may still hear them, but not to the same degree. Even the higher end digital devices I've tried were somewhat guilty of this...

One of my buddies put new pickups in his Les Paul last year and the new ones were boutique, well known great pickups. He didn't like them as well after playing them for a few weeks. Knowing what he likes, and that he got the right models, I asked him what he didn't like and he said they simply didn't sound better and maybe not as good. Then he emailed me one day laughing and saying his wife was gone all day so he cranked up his tube amps, and suddenly was in love with the new pickups. When I asked, he'd only tried them the first few weeks with his Helix. He said it was "night and day better" once he turned on the tube amps. Clearly and immediately heard the difference and that it was superior. But after playing through the Helix alone the first few weeks he was convinced they were no better and hardly any different.

I can also give you another story about a friend who has a Single Cut that is awesome, and got an SE and said it didn't play as well, but sounded just as good in the store. Through a modeler. Got it home and immediately liked the 57/08's in his core model much better. Which is fine, he wanted a price point gig guitar and he'll put pickups in it. The point is, in the store with a modeler, he said they sounded almost identical.

Not trying to start a tube vs. SS or vs. Modeler debate here, but this is my opinion on this. I have not tried the newest AXE stuff.

 

[Lee Mac]

It's really more than that... I'm not saying the affordable SS devices, or the digital ones, can't offer good tones, but one thing that was common to EVERY single one I've tried, is that they are far less transparent than a good tube amp. People talk about the feel of tube amps is the big difference between SS and modeling. I've found the the difference in transparency is just as big a deal as the feel.

The transparency shows everything more clearly. Coil tap, tone or volume rolloff, different wood types, etc. etc. are more clearly defined. The SS and digital devices tend to homogenize those differences. You may still hear them, but not to the same degree. Even the higher end digital devices I've tried were somewhat guilty of this...

You're probably right and transparency is a good way to describe it and something I hadn't thought about. That said, in my situation (a 135# senior citizen), the light weight of the Katana and the multiple programmable sounds, outweigh the admitted superior sounds of my 40+ lb. tube amp. But I sure am enjoying my SE Mira, my first PRS.

 

[Jim Halinda]

I’ve never tried a Katana, but I have a Pod Go that I play either through a practice PA at home, or an FRFR monitor on stage.

All of my guitars show their distinct tones through the Pod Go, whether equipped with single coils, humbuckers, wide range humbuckers, P90s, or humbuckers rigged for coil split / series / parallel. This last includes my PRS SE CU24 35th anniversary, which I had modded with tri-sound switches to add the option of each humbucker in parallel.

No problems here telling the sounds apart… I can only guess that it is something to do with the Katana, or perhaps you are using too much gain.

I don’t think it is modelling causing this - all my guitars sounded pretty much the same until I backed off from really high gain sounds. Too much gain is like too much hot sauce - hard to taste the original flavor under all that heat.

IMHO and YMMV

P. S. Same holds true for my Line 6 Flextone amp, Pod 2.0, and Pod X3 Live.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

All of my guitars show their distinct tones through the Pod Go,

All of my guitars show all of the differences with my Atomic AA12 as well. I understand that and agree. But not to the same degree as they do with a good tube amp.

I've used the analogy before, but it's like listening to say a lower high end stereo, after listening to your stereo that you thought was good. Even the lower middle of the high end audio equipment is so much more transparent that you'll hear ALL KINDS of things you've never heard before. And, the things you did hear before are much more evident and clear.

And I also agree that when you bury tones in gain, that can smear a lot of the details. But I'm not talking about that. I've noted a clear superiority of "good" tube amps in the area of transparency, over SS and digital devices. I'll also say, they are MUCH better than they used to be at this. (I'm pretty sure it has to do with better and better converters) but still, "what I have tried" is not quite there. And another disclaimer that I have not tried the latest of the AXE stuff.

Think about this: The "good" lower end digital recording interfaces like Focusrite or whichever ones, have some rabid fans and many people claim how great they sound. But go from a $2-300 Forcusrite to an $800 RME or other, and users of those will tell you they are a whole different level. What's inside matters. If you only hear the Focusrite, you may be completely happy with it. But hear the higher end interfaces and you hear things you didn't, and hear everything more clearly. That is transparency. Like higher end audio systems, once you've heard it, it's hard to go back. But only the most expensive modelers even attempt to go for the higher end D/A and A/D converters, and other components that make a high end device. All of this is as important in a digital device, as tubes, transformers and caps are in a tube amp.