I Think These Small Diaphragm Condenser Mics Sound Great - And They're Not Expensive.

[László]

I stumbled on this YouTube video on Friday. This is a very well-done mic demo, recording grand piano and acoustic guitar using three different miking techniques on piano, and two on the acoustic.

These microphones sound extremely good in this demo. I mean, really solid, with tight and present bass, great mids, and un-hyped high frequencies. Very natural sounding.

JZ (Juris Zarens) designed the classic Blue condenser mics back in the late '90s/early '00s, and made them in Latvia. Later Blue started making them here and elsewhere, and is no longer making their line of studio mics (I'm told). I have owned quite a few Blue mics from that era, and they were all great.

Most small diaphragm condensers, even very good ones, tend to overload on the bottom at close range, and hype the highs. But listen to the bass on the piano in the demo; these notes are crisp and solid. The highs are natural, not hyped, yet the mics are pretty close to a loud source.

Anyway, I think they're killer and ordered a pair. Turns out they were even on sale.

When they arrive I'll record an acoustic demo and post it up.

 

[Greywolf]

Thanks Les!

 

[Slo-mo]

Although his video edits are a bit jarring in a fee spots, this was very informative. Thanks for posting!

 

[László]

Although his video edits are a bit jarring in a fee spots, this was very informative. Thanks for posting!

He did a nice job setting up and recording the mics, the instruments were good, the room sounded good, and he had good players.

Evaluating the mics was pretty easy - I really liked the sound!

I use small diaphragm condensers in stereo configurations (I set them up generally in the Dutch Radio (NOS) configuration, which is similar to ORTF he used, only the spacing between the mics is 30 cm and the angle is 90 degrees. This seems to work best in my room with mics like KM184s.

Experimenting with these will be interesting!

 

[Slo-mo]

He did a nice job setting up and recording the mics, the instruments were good, the room sounded good, and he had good players.

Evaluating the mics was pretty easy - I really liked the sound!

I use small diaphragm condensers in stereo configurations (I set them up generally in the Dutch Radio (NOS) configuration, which is similar to ORTF he used, only the spacing between the mics is 30 cm and the angle is 90 degrees. This seems to work best in my room with mics like KM184s.

Experimenting with these will be interesting!

Sounds like fun! I can't wait to hear your eval and demo.

 

[László]

Sounds like fun! I can't wait to hear your eval and demo.

I plan to try them as a stereo pair on acoustic and electric guitars. Should be interesting!

I guess we shall see whether I chose...wisely.

I'll post a recording or two and we can all decide together.

 

[JasonE]

I may have to find a good time to watch that video. I am not really in the market for more microphones. I have a pair of Rode condenser mics that do pretty good. I haven't tried using them for recording but will eventually. They work really well for overhead mics on a drum kit.

 

[Prina]

I plan to try them as a stereo pair on acoustic and electric guitars. Should be interesting!

Cool!

Would love to hear a comparison with the KM184's, especially knowing how you like Neumann mics.

 

[Black Plaid]

Unless he provided uncompressed audio files ... I dunno, how can you hear what a mic sounds like through someone else's setup, esp over youtube?

I've seen good comparison vids for mics before (that's how I chose to get a TLM-103), but unless you have a baseline or something to compare against, seems like a bit of a risky proposition.

 

[László]

I may have to find a good time to watch that video. I am not really in the market for more microphones. I have a pair of Rode condenser mics that do pretty good. I haven't tried using them for recording but will eventually. They work really well for overhead mics on a drum kit.

Rode makes nice mics. I've had several, and they're very good indeed. I wouldn't change them unless I had a hankering for something else, or didn't like how they worked with my instruments or singers.

Unless he provided uncompressed audio files ... I dunno, how can you hear what a mic sounds like through someone else's setup, esp over youtube?

You can only get a general idea. Sometimes that's impressive enough to try the mic.

No demo of someone else's instrument is going to tell me how a mic works in my room, with my gear and instruments in any case. I have to actually use the mic. This is especially true of a stereo pair where you're going to pick up a lot of room tone.

Regardless of the bit rate and the compression artifacts, all a recording of a demo can do is give me a general picture.

I've seen good comparison vids for mics before (that's how I chose to get a TLM-103), but unless you have a baseline or something to compare against, seems like a bit of a risky proposition.

I heard enough to buy and try the mics. If they don't work out in the end after experimenting, I sell them and the loss is simply chalked up to the cost of doing business. It's not a big deal.

 

[László]

The mics arrived yesterday afternoon, and I had a chance to try them briefly as a stereo pair last night.

The only hitch had nothing to do with the mics. A few weeks ago I had a software issue and decided to redo my software for the entire computer. Naturally I set up the Apollo software all over again, too.

But I'd forgotten how I originally set up the Apollo's outputs for my headphone cues, and spent an hour and a half trying to figure out WTF went wrong when my headphone amp didn't make sound. I finally got behind the rack and saw that my physical cue outputs were 1-2, not 7-8, as I assigned them in the software console app.

Doh!

After I sorted that out, I didn't want to spend a lot of time dicking around with a complicated setup. I just wanted to know whether the mics worked, and sounded like something I'd be able to use in a session.

So I set up a simple spaced pair and moved my wheeled desk chair around to find a workable distance from the mics. I didn't even bother to angle them. I figured I'd do what I might in a classical session, just set them up to reproduce the sound in a general part of the room.

For a real-deal recording I'd have taken more time, and wouldn't use my desk chair because they get noisy if the wheels move. I played the Tonare Grand.

I liked what I heard. Their overall character is indeed that of the online demo. The frequency response is flatter than the KM184 - there's less of a high frequency presence lift.

I didn't find the mics slightly dark as some reviewers - who liked the mics - did.

Instead I thought my guitar - that I've recorded ten zillion times since 2013 when I got it, so I know very well how it records with different mics - sounded more like it does in real life, i.e., less 'miked' and more natural, but still detailed.

The mics' "reach" was excellent; the guitar sounded like it sounds in the room at a variety of distances. Might even be less fussy of placement than the Neumanns.

I found I liked the sound of the mics without any EQ, at least with a solo instrument. However, the track took EQ well. It just didn't need anything.

A few more things to mention:

The mics are small. That's good. They'll be easy to place. They feel very solid, in fact weighty for their size, so that's reassuring. The machining is of excellent quality. Unlike the KM 184 with its plastic cable jack on the bottom (this bugs me because it's a wear-and-tear thing), the JZs' jacks are beautifully machined and polished metal, and the plug is seated oh-so-smoothly. The overall impression is that of high quality.

I have a nice JZ wood box that they both fit in, but if these turn out to be keepers, I'll order JZ's newer fitted wood box for the pair, because I'm that guy (and because there's a compartment for the mic clips).

 

[László]

I should mention this about high frequency presence lift in mics, particularly Neumanns (and I like Neumanns a LOT):

It sounds sparkly and wonderful sometimes to have that. My guess is it was originally introduced to overcome tape hiss and the rolled off high end of 1950s and early 1960s tube mic preamps. People got used to it, and there you are. Classic tones.

But, as we know, plenty of recordists prefer the somewhat less sparkly tone of the classic U47. Some prefer ribbon mics, and those are generally pretty dark on top.

Digital recording doesn't need it unless you WANT the extra HF sparkle. Sometimes I do. Sometimes not. Horses for courses.

 

[WingerRules]

You can only get a general idea. Sometimes that's impressive enough to try the mic.

Yes. There are MANY guitar videos people put on line that even though recorded with their phone, you can tell their guitar tone is not good. I wouldn't even WANT to hear a "higher fidelity" recording of their tone. Meanwhile, Tag posts phone clips of his Louis Electric Cobra and you can tell that amp sounds like a Holy Grail amp! Even with the phone recording and even on YouTube, you can tell the amp sounds incredible.

 

[László]

Yes. There are MANY guitar videos people put on line that even though recorded with their phone, you can tell their guitar tone is not good. I wouldn't even WANT to hear a "higher fidelity" recording of their tone.

Yessir. Exactly!

Meanwhile, Tag posts phone clips of his Louis Electric Cobra and you can tell that amp sounds like a Holy Grail amp! Even with the phone recording and even on YouTube, you can tell the amp sounds incredible.

I find it hard to believe you haven't bought one!

Here's an idea:

You could get the ball rolling by selling your kick stand.

 

[WingerRules]

You could get the ball rolling by selling your kick stand.

They don't seem to be worth as much as they used too, what with the "stigma" and all.

 

[László]

They don't seem to be worth as much as they used too, what with the "stigma" and all.

You know those collapsible/folding walkers the elders need? What's to keep them from toppling over once they're folded?

You bet. A kick stand!

Simply go door to door in a retirement community and there's your demand for kick stands. Opportunity knocks! Carpe diem.

 

[Alnus Rubra]

You know those collapsible/folding walkers the elders need? What's to keep them from toppling over once they're folded?

You bet. A kick stand!

Simply go door to door in a retirement community and there's your demand for kick stands. Opportunity knocks! Carpe diem.

Don’t forget the tennis balls.

 

[Smolder]

Well… they aren’t cheap by any means

 

[László]

Well… they aren’t cheap by any means

Kick stands or the microphones? The mics are inexpensive for high quality condensers. Kick stands I don't know about - haven't bought a kick stand since I was 11 years old.

 

[Smolder]

Kick stands or the microphones? The mics are inexpensive for high quality condensers. Kick stands I don't know about - haven't bought a kick stand since I was 11 years old.

I’m just a bar band guy. My threshold for mics I’d use for drums is $150-200 each. We don’t push drums much louder than 120% of organic. Maybe I misunderstood their use.