I Need Help with USA pickups wiring in a Tremonti SE

[Lockdownx99]

So i bought this Tremonti SE from a guy locally off of craigslist. He put HFS and vintage bass pickups. He also said he had the guy "rewire" the toggle switch to mirror that of the USA models. I would have figured the SE's would be wired the same way as the US models but oh well. Anyways, Im having some issues with it tonally. When i put the toggle switch down or up, it sounds nice and full. The down is a little thinner but still has lows and up, its deeper. When I put it in the middle though, it gets really thin with now mid or low end. My USA Tremonti sounds good in all positions. Down is a little hotter, up is a little lower and middle is nice and full. Im wondering if there is any obvious things i might want to check on as far as the wiring goes?

I took it to guitar center and had the tech look at it, and he said everything looked ok.

 

[AP515]

So i bought this Tremonti SE from a guy locally off of craigslist. He put HFS and vintage bass pickups. He also said he had the guy "rewire" the toggle switch to mirror that of the USA models. I would have figured the SE's would be wired the same way as the US models but oh well. Anyways, Im having some issues with it tonally. When i put the toggle switch down or up, it sounds nice and full. The down is a little thinner but still has lows and up, its deeper. When I put it in the middle though, it gets really thin with now mid or low end. My USA Tremonti sounds good in all positions. Down is a little hotter, up is a little lower and middle is nice and full. Im wondering if there is any obvious things i might want to check on as far as the wiring goes?

I took it to guitar center and had the tech look at it, and he said everything looked ok.

The HFS magnet is flipped and the pup is wired backwards for use with the 5 way rotary. If you don't flip it around when using a 3 way toggle, it will screw things up. I'm guessing that is the problem. I'm not super clear on what needs to be done as I like the rotary, but I think you can switch the white and black wires to check but I might be wrong. Won't hurt to try it.

 

[alantig]

Yeah - sounds like the middle position is out of phase. The classic Peter Green mode. It's great - if it's what you're looking for. But it is a bit of a shock - one of my guitars is wired that way, and it always seems to surprise me when I switch into that position.

 

[Lockdownx99]

So are you saying I should just unsolder the 2 wires connecting the HFS and reverse them? If I do that, will it still sound clear when the toggle is flipped down or up? sorry I'm new to this, and usually don't get this technical with my guitars. I just play them, though I would love to learn what makes them tick. Thanks for the help in advance.

 

[Lockdownx99]

Ok so I have discovered another issue with the Guitar that relates to the first problem I'm having. Im not sure if the 2 are fixable with one repair or they are separate issues or what.

So, like in my original post, i was having tone issues when switched to middle pickup when using USA HFS and vintage bass pickups in an SE Tremonti. The switch in the up or down position sounds nice and full, but middle loses all low end and sounds thin and tinny. Heres my second discovery. I notice if I Dime out both volume pots, I get he tinniness on middle position, BUT, if I roll back to 9 or so on one of the volume knobs (either one, so long as they are both not all the way up at the same time) the low end cuts back in. Im not sure if maybe there is still a phase issue, or if maybe the pots might be messed up. Im guessing that since it happens with either volume knob, it might not be the pots. What do y'all think?

 

[Mixstar]

FWIW - If I'm experimenting with anything like this be it guitar or otherwise I either (not so much these days) make a sketch of the wiring or (normally) take a photo of it. At least you can go back to square one if it goes peculiar. There are wiring diagrams all over the interweb to help you with your issue. Search "prs tremonti se wiring".

 

[Deleted member 2284]

Ok so I have discovered another issue with the Guitar that relates to the first problem I'm having. Im not sure if the 2 are fixable with one repair or they are separate issues or what.

So, like in my original post, i was having tone issues when switched to middle pickup when using USA HFS and vintage bass pickups in an SE Tremonti. The switch in the up or down position sounds nice and full, but middle loses all low end and sounds thin and tinny. Heres my second discovery. I notice if I Dime out both volume pots, I get he tinniness on middle position, BUT, if I roll back to 9 or so on one of the volume knobs (either one, so long as they are both not all the way up at the same time) the low end cuts back in. Im not sure if maybe there is still a phase issue, or if maybe the pots might be messed up. Im guessing that since it happens with either volume knob, it might not be the pots. What do y'all think?

This would be consistent with out of phase behaviour, I should think. Not an expert on guitar wiring, so my experience is based on studio work, where tracks can be out of phase as well.
Say, if you have two tracks that are roughly the same (like the signal from each pickup, in your case), and you flip the polarity on one of those tracks (like the flipped magnet in your case, I think), then a lot of stuff cancels out. Bass is especially sisceptible to this. Then when you turn one track DOWN, the volume can go UP - that's because the result is that the difference between the tracks become greater, allowing the louder track to come through more.
So I think it is consistent with the first explanation.

 

[Lockdownx99]

Thanks for the replies. I have little to no knowledge about guitar wiring. I have found a few diagrams but I have absolutely no clue how to wire a set of pickups for a 3 way toggle vs. a 5 way rotary. The guitar was purchased this way and I'm just trying to get it up and running decent so it will be a reliable backup in the future. Ill swap the black and white wire and see what that does. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[jimistephen]

If you switch the wires on one of the pickups, It doesn't really matter which one (say bridge) in the bridge position it will sound the same. In the MIDDLE position the pickups are OUT OF PHASE OF EACH OTHER. What that means is While one is Going POSITIVE to NEGATIVE, the other one is running NEGATIVE TO POSITIVE. When each pick up is by itself, it doesn't matter which way it is, because there is no reference for it. If you were to look at the frequencies of the guitar you would see the pickups trying to cancel each other out, that's why it sounds thin when it's out of phase. Again, some people like the out of phase sound, a la Peter Green, Jimmy Page used it some, several others. Some people who have 4 wire pickups put either a switch or push pull pot on to flip one so they have the best of both worlds.

Another way to visualize this is when you're running two different amps (say an Orange and a Burgera) some times when you play one or the other it sounds great and full but when you play both together it sound thin or out of phase, what is happening is at the same time one speaker is pushing out while the other is pulling in (that's a very simple explanation of how a speaker works to move air) and they start to cancel the frequencies.