I do NOT need a new head - now help me choose one

[Black Plaid]

I dunno about anyone else, but I'm getting old. Any lift heavier than a corgi, and I am risking some kind of injury. no offense

 

[Boogie]

And another great conversation hits the skids. *sigh*

Anyway, I wanted to support a couple great recommendations here (there were way more than a couple!). Don’t be afraid of the power designation of an amp as an indicator of possible volume. Think of it as an indicator of character. This is due to having the headroom in the power section (transformers in particular) to give clean channels the ability to be pristine. Also makes it possible to turn up your edge-of-breakup setting so you can allow the guitar volume control and picking dynamics dictate your grit and output. This is a feature set that I’ve grown dependent upon. This is where the seriously cool zone resides for me.

The only down side is weight. Lugging a 62lbs. Boogie MkIII combo with EV12L for 30 years has taught me to appreciate a.)roadies, and b.)never lean forward holding that amp in one hand, regardless of how strong you may be. One back muscle tweak will make for a miserable load out at 4am!

 

[Tremontinator]

I dunno about anyone else, but I'm getting old. Any lift heavier than a corgi, and I am risking some kind of injury. no offense

I stand corrected. Age is a good excuse.
Hell, I'm 31 and I've beat the living daylights out of my body from working since I was a kid, and I have nothing to show for it. Point being I feel every bit of 45+ years old.

I stand corrected.

I go to the Y 5 days a week. I still lift fairly heavy weights 3 days a week and have for roughly 45 continuous years. I’m almost (key word) as strong as I was at 30. However, I’m still leery of lifting a 100 lb. cab into the back of my SUV. Can I do it? Absolutely, but there’s no guarantee that I’m not going to hurt my back if I’m not careful. If a bandmate is with me, I’ll have them help me. I’ve had back trouble (sciatica) before and its no picnic. Why take a chance?

So, does weight play a factor in my equipment choices? Absolutely. And, it’s a big reason I’ve switched to Kemper or Headrush and use Headrush FRFR powered cabs.

Yeah, I have sciatica, too. I got it working in dealerships servicing lifted trucks and lifting heavy mud tires constantly.
Roll and hold it tight to your thigh, and kick it up. Twist, and then extend at chest/shoulder height to put it back on the truck. 150+lbs/tire, 4-6 tires/truck, 8-12 trucks/day, 6 days/wk.

Big rig tires were worse. 2 guys lifting 175lbs of rubber over head.


Going way off topic here but, I wouldn't recommend blue-collar work to anybody. Ever. Your body takes an unimaginable beating, the benefits are a joke if you even get them, and the pay is disgustingly bad.



How about this amp subject though? I love this thread. It's a good thing we're not all drug addicts.

I don't need drugs now sell me some drugs

Guitarists are the worst enablers

Awesome, I think this really sealed it for me: Custom 20 it is.

Oh, wait, or Custom 50??



Cool story bro, how far can you maintain a 6 min/mi pace? How long can you hump a 110 lb ruck without stopping? How many operations have you had on your knees/back? What's your body fat comp? Your personal and families medical history?



Yeah, you can help him bro: don't be a dick. (I take it back, I suspect I'd never call you brother)
No ones life should be ruled by how others treat/talk to them, but then again, no one should have to listen to a blowhard when they come to talk about music.
Free speech isn't just a right, it's a responsibility. How about you practice some?

Never was much of a runner. So what? Like I said, I never deployed but, everybody I talked to who did said military cardio standards vs reality is extremely skewed.
Being good at PT doesn't make anybody an effective troop. It's only a piece of the puzzle.

Humping hills with a ruck was never an issue for me. I did better than most, not as good as some.

Because you asked, I'll tell you that in boot camp, we had a 12 miler with I think 135lbs plus IBA, Kevlar, canteens, and rifle.

With my unit, we had a few 15 milers on mostly flat ground with...idk...80-ish lbs plus other gear? Maybe 85lbs?

Again, that's only one piece of the puzzle.

Body fat now? Off the charts. Back then? Pretty damn good.

Nobody's rights end where others' "feewings" begin. Period. If we all thought that way, then the British would still rule over us.


Time for work.

 

[DougUSMC]

Anyway, I wanted to support a couple great recommendations here (there were way more than a couple!). Don’t be afraid of the power designation of an amp as an indicator of possible volume. Think of it as an indicator of character. This is due to having the headroom in the power section (transformers in particular) to give clean channels the ability to be pristine. Also makes it possible to turn up your edge-of-breakup setting so you can allow the guitar volume control and picking dynamics dictate your grit and output. This is a feature set that I’ve grown dependent upon. This is where the seriously cool zone resides for me.

Yeah, I really dig this. I'm looking at it from the perspective that this will not be a primary amp, more of something to have to play with. I don't want to *have* to crank it up to get it to break up where I want, b/c I bought more power than I needed.

Is that backwards thinking?

Another weird thing: Why can't I find the Custom line on the PRS page? Are they not being made in 2019?

 

[Boogie]

Yeah, I really dig this. I'm looking at it from the perspective that this will not be a primary amp, more of something to have to play with. I don't want to *have* to crank it up to get it to break up where I want, b/c I bought more power than I needed.

Is that backwards thinking?

Another weird thing: Why can't I find the Custom line on the PRS page? Are they not being made in 2019?

Not backwards, exactly. You have to think about certain amps differently, though. Certain amp designs cannot be approached the same as others. Case in point: Mesa/Boogie Mark series and a Marshall Plexi. The Boogie is not designed to have the master cranked for power stage breakup the way the Plexi is. You don’t approach them or set them the same way, at all! You let the preamp stage do their cascaded gain thing and tweak tone controls to the way it sounds, not a number on the dial. The controls are so interdependent that a slight twist on the volume knob changes the response of the bass, mid, treble...heck, everything! The Plexi can be dimed on all controls and get a reasonably decent sound out of the box. Not my cup of tea, but people have been waxing in this regard since the late 60s. So, don’t view the Archon (think Boogie) and Custom (think modern Plexi-ish) in the same light.

 

[DougUSMC]

Never was much of a runner. So what? Like I said, I never deployed but, everybody I talked to who did said military cardio standards vs reality is extremely skewed.
Being good at PT doesn't make anybody an effective troop. It's only a piece of the puzzle.

Humping hills with a ruck was never an issue for me. I did better than most, not as good as some.

Because you asked, I'll tell you that in boot camp, we had a 12 miler with I think 135lbs plus IBA, Kevlar, canteens, and rifle.

With my unit, we had a few 15 milers on mostly flat ground with...idk...80-ish lbs plus other gear? Maybe 85lbs?

Again, that's only one piece of the puzzle.

Body fat now? Off the charts. Back then? Pretty damn good.

Nobody's rights end where others' "feewings" begin. Period. If we all thought that way, then the British would still rule over us.


Time for work.

They're not "feewings", and being an A-hole isn't anywhere in the Constitution that I recall, nor the Declaration of Independence.

Let me take this as another opportunity for instruction, and point out three things that even you can't ignore:
1) You don't get to cover being rude and a bully by saying "No offense". No one cares about your lesson on what "being rude vs. being not rude" is. How about this rule: If you don't have anything nice to say...
Just to prove that point: No offense, but I'd rather see people that are less strong and more fit than just fat-nasties who can't control their weight. Also, you sure as he11 better be able to lift 300lbs when your legs are carrying that much around on a daily basis.
See, you were still offended, even though I said "no offense". You'll know this is true when you feel the need to respond.

2) Using the word "feewings" and talking about running out the British (which was about Taxation w/o representation, not "feewings"), doesn't make a point. It doesn't make you more manly, or more right. It makes you sound more like an idiot.

3) If you think maybe I'm wrong, try this: We've both been here about a month. You have more than 5x as many posts as I, but ask yourself if they are adding or detracting from the Forum? Take your number of likes, and divide by the number of messages. Then do the same for mine. Whoever has the highest resulting number *just might* be the better contributor.

So endeth the lesson

Now could you PLEASE stop derailing my thread?? I'm trying to learn something here, and asking for help from those who bring knowledge. The last thing I want is the mods locking my thread b/c you need to spout off. I you have more to say, feel free to PM me about it, because it doesn't belong on the forums.

 

[DougUSMC]

Not backwards, exactly. You have to think about certain amps differently, though. Certain amp designs cannot be approached the same as others. Case in point: Mesa/Boogie Mark series and a Marshall Plexi. The Boogie is not designed to have the master cranked for power stage breakup the way the Plexi is. You don’t approach them or set them the same way, at all! You let the preamp stage do their cascaded gain thing and tweak tone controls to the way it sounds, not a number on the dial. The controls are so interdependent that a slight twist on the volume knob changes the response of the bass, mid, treble...heck, everything! The Plexi can be dimed on all controls and get a reasonably decent sound out of the box. Not my cup of tea, but people have been waxing in this regard since the late 60s. So, don’t view the Archon (think Boogie) and Custom (think modern Plexi-ish) in the same light.

I understand what you're saying in theory, but not in practice. I've tried to get "better" at this for a while now, but it just never sticks in my head. I know that I like one of my heads over another for certain tones/songs/styles, and I also know that (someone better than I) can do some pretty cool things with them. I just haven't been able to pull that off myself, which i why I'm always adding to the collection.

Thanks for the additional info tho, I *think* that you're helping me feel better about the Custom being the right choice for what I'm looking to do.

 

[elvis]

Yeah, I really dig this. I'm looking at it from the perspective that this will not be a primary amp, more of something to have to play with. I don't want to *have* to crank it up to get it to break up where I want, b/c I bought more power than I needed.

Is that backwards thinking?

Another weird thing: Why can't I find the Custom line on the PRS page? Are they not being made in 2019?

In line with Boogie's post, some amps really only get one tone, where others can get a lot of different tones. The one-tone amps are more forgiving, you can turn the knobs any way you like, but they basically sound the same. The many-tone amps can be frustrating to dial in, but if you take the time to really learn them, they can cover a ton of ground.

My Einstein is more what you see is what you get. The Archon is surprisingly flexible.

As for power, I went the low power route, but found that the volume drop is negligible. I wound up back with the 100W amps because they tend to have better master volumes.

 

[11top]

How about this rule: If you don't have anything nice to say....

Thumper is the man (I think)!



I couldn’t agree more.

 

[elvis]

As a bit of information, half power on many 4-power-tube amps drops out two tubes, and the remaining tubes stay in pentode mode.

For two-tube output stages, half, power moves them to triode mode, with a different tone, usually a bit spongier and less bold.

Technically speaking, tetrode (4 terminal) and pentode (5 terminal) tubes are more efficient than triode (3 terminal) modes/tubes. Using these modes to alter power works, but the audio characteristics do change.

A triode uses high voltage to send electrons from the cathode through a vacuum and smash into the plate, controlled by the grid voltage.

Pentode and tetrode tubes add screens to focus the beam and slow down the elections at the plate so they stick better and don't bounce off. Pretty cool details to a nerd like me. Changing from pentode to triode mode just shuts off the screen effect, though it may rebias the grid as well.

Anyway, it's a combination of the total power and the efficiency that gives the dynamic response or lack thereof.

 

[dmatthews]

Another weird thing: Why can't I find the Custom line on the PRS page? Are they not being made in 2019?

Unfortunately, no. I think they were dropped in 2018, or maybe 2019?
That wouldn't stop me from getting one, but we're all different.

 

[DougUSMC]

As a bit of information, half power on many 4-power-tube amps drops out two tubes, and the remaining tubes stay in pentode mode.

For two-tube output stages, half, power moves them to triode mode, with a different tone, usually a bit spongier and less bold.

Technically speaking, tetrode (4 terminal) and pentode (5 terminal) tubes are more efficient than triode (3 terminal) modes/tubes. Using these modes to alter power works, but the audio characteristics do change.

A triode uses high voltage to send electrons from the cathode through a vacuum and smash into the plate, controlled by the grid voltage.

Pentode and tetrode tubes add screens to focus the beam and slow down the elections at the plate so they stick better and don't bounce off. Pretty cool details to a nerd like me. Changing from pentode to triode mode just shuts off the screen effect, though it may rebias the grid as well.

Anyway, it's a combination of the total power and the efficiency that gives the dynamic response or lack thereof.

Thanks for that, I think I understood half of it.

So the custom is triode, right?

Unfortunately, no. I think they were dropped in 2018, or maybe 2019?
That wouldn't stop me from getting one, but we're all different.

Agreed, I'm pretty set on a Custom 20. It just changes my idea on who to call to see what they can do for me.

 

[dmatthews]

Thanks for that, I think I understood half of it.

So the custom is triode, right?



Agreed, I'm pretty set on a Custom 20. It just changes my idea on who to call to see what they can do for me.

I bought my Custom 50 used on Reverb. I sort of knew what I was getting into because I already owned a H combo.
That being said, there's nothing like trying it out first.

 

[elvis]

Thanks for that, I think I understood half of it.

So the custom is triode, right?



Agreed, I'm pretty set on a Custom 20. It just changes my idea on who to call to see what they can do for me.

The custom 20 uses 2x5881 tubes, same as the Archon 25. The 5881 is a low power version of a 6L6 that I believe runs in pentode mode.

 

[DougUSMC]

The custom 20 uses 2x5881 tubes, same as the Archon 25. The 5881 is a low power version of a 6L6 that I believe runs in pentode mode.

Ok, new question:
I'm diggin all of this talk, but it's killing me that I don't understand any of it. Is there a book you'd recommend to get started down the path? Assume a solid electrical background, and a desired end state of buying and building a kit tube amp project.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

As a bit of information, half power on many 4-power-tube amps drops out two tubes, and the remaining tubes stay in pentode mode.

For two-tube output stages, half, power moves them to triode mode, with a different tone, usually a bit spongier and less bold.

This is why I actually preferred a 50 Watt Archon over a 100. The 50 has PLENTY, although I'm sure the 100 has more guts. But the 50 offers something different because of Triode mode. I can drop it into half power mode, and plug it into an open back cab with Alnico speaker and sound completely different that it sounded with V30s in a closed cab. In fact, when I was actually interested in a second one, I thought I'd get the 25 watt combo and drop my Alnico speaker on there, making it a killer 13 watt blues/classic rock combo.

 

[DougUSMC]

Very cool. That versatility is what I was looking for when I made my 2x12. I left the back 1/3 open, but made a panel that I could add if I wanted. I also put in one V30 and one Blue, with a mono/stereo switch.

I have to admit tho: most of the time it's on stereo, with the back 1/3 open.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Ok, new question:
I'm diggin all of this talk, but it's killing me that I don't understand any of it. Is there a book you'd recommend to get started down the path? Assume a solid electrical background, and a desired end state of buying and building a kit tube amp project.

A book? No, I just made most of it up anyway.

Seriously, I used to think that building was the best way to get what you want. I hung out most of the time at BYOC (pedals) and AX84 and SEwatt.com (amp building sites). While cool, informative and fun, I finally decided I was spending way more time building, modding, buying parts, swapping parts, etc., than I was playing. So I just started buying good stuff and kind of put that all behind me. I've got several unbuilt BYOC kits and tons of caps, resistors, switches, diodes, ha even a box of power coated pedal enclosures that are all unused. I do have a couple serious books on the topics though. I can look up their titles if you really want to get into this more.

 

[Black Plaid]

Ok, new question:
I'm diggin all of this talk, but it's killing me that I don't understand any of it. Is there a book you'd recommend to get started down the path? Assume a solid electrical background, and a desired end state of buying and building a kit tube amp project.

There's an excellent You Tube channel called UncleDoug, he has quite a few explanations of how tube amps work. He'll trace a schematic and tell you about all the parts and what they do and how they interact. Most of his stuff is refurbishing old amps, so you'll have to dig through to find them.

 

[elvis]

I would say that searching vacuum tube primer would get you a ton of vids and text that should get you there. They are pretty simple really.

When you get into circuit design, that gets more complicated. There are simple tried and true circuits, but overall understanding of them takes a little work. Certainly within the grasp of many people, just don't get discouraged.

Several companies offer tube amp kits. Probably a good place to start.