I am done selling on Reverb: PRS Tremonti MT-15 saga

[RC Mike]

The question in my mind is why he logged the complaint to begin with. The cynical part of me says he opened it up because of the LEDs, saw the traces, and figured he’d become a Partial-Refund-Bro guy.

He laid his ethics out for all to see when he claimed to have contacted PRS about it and used what the OP sent him in his own ad.

My opinion is that he saw the traces and figured he’d bend another person over a barrel, just because that’s how some people are. It’s a crappy thing to do.

 

[Johnny Alien]

I think some people are a bit confused as to what actually happened. The OP has been made whole in this situation. Reverb refunded the money to the buyer but did not take the money from the OP/seller. They sold the amp and got the money for the amp. They are whole in the situation and the amp should not go back to them either.

The ethical thing to do would be for the buyer to contact Reverb and say "hey I found out that this is actually legit and there is nothing wrong with the amp" and return that refunded money to Reverb. And honestly they might have done that....we have no idea....because I would bet a bunch of money that a company as large as Reverb would say "It's already completed just keep the cash and the amp". So at this point we have no idea how unethical the buyer has been because its between them and Reverb.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

I think some people are a bit confused as to what actually happened. The OP has been made whole in this situation.

I’m not confused. The guy got fully refunded for a complaint that wasn’t legit. At that point, the amp should have gone back to op. Instead, he sells the amp and now has profited from it. And if he actually is getting bashed, he could put it all right by showing he refunded the money. He didn’t, so the only reasonable assumption is that he kept it. While he didn’t lie to get the refund, his claim was wrong and under no circumstances is it ok to keep the amp and the money!

We had a similar story with a new Keurig, but with a very different ending.

 

[MusiquedeReve]

I’m not confused. The guy got fully refunded for a complaint that wasn’t legit. At that point, the amp should have gone back to op. Instead, he sells the amp and now has profited from it. And if he actually is getting bashed, he could put it all right by showing he refunded the money. He didn’t, so the only reasonable assumption is that he kept it. While he didn’t lie to get the refund, his claim was wrong and under no circumstances is it ok to keep the amp and the money!

We had a similar story with a new Keurig, but with a very different ending.

Ohhhh, I'm interested to hear that story

 

[Johnny Alien]

I’m not confused. The guy got fully refunded for a complaint that wasn’t legit. At that point, the amp should have gone back to op. Instead, he sells the amp and now has profited from it. And if he actually is getting bashed, he could put it all right by showing he refunded the money. He didn’t, so the only reasonable assumption is that he kept it. While he didn’t lie to get the refund, his claim was wrong and under no circumstances is it ok to keep the amp and the money!

The seller did not refund the money, Reverb reimbursed the buyer. Why should the amp go back to the seller? They got paid for the amp. At this point its only between the buyer and Reverb. When something is damaged in shipping with UPS and there is a claim paid out the item is not sent back to the shipper. It is either retained by the buyer or UPS takes it. Reverb could have asked for the amp when they reimbursed the buyer but clearly they did not. Even if Reverb is notified by the buyer they may (and probably likely) opt to not ask for the money back. Your problem is with how Reverb handled it.

 

[RC Mike]

The seller did not refund the money, Reverb reimbursed the buyer. Why should the amp go back to the seller? They got paid for the amp. At this point its only between the buyer and Reverb. When something is damaged in shipping with UPS and there is a claim paid out the item is not sent back to the shipper. It is either retained by the buyer or UPS takes it. Reverb could have asked for the amp when they reimbursed the buyer but clearly they did not. Even if Reverb is notified by the buyer they may (and probably likely) opt to not ask for the money back. Your problem is with how Reverb handled it.

Are you essentially arguing that, no matter what the circumstances, so long as it’s a faceless company, fraud is acceptable?

 

[Johnny Alien]

No, I am not arguing that. I am saying what happens to that amp and who takes ownership is between the buyer and Reverb. When they originally settled Reverb reimbursed and let the buyer keep the amp. I believe that when the seller found out that the modifications were legit they should have notified Reverb of that. I would bet that Reverb would not do anything about it and would let them keep the amp. I have no idea IF the buyer did that because I don't know them. The fact that they still have the amp and are selling it does not give me enough information to assume fraud occurred because (again) Reverb could have been notified and they chose not to do anything. I don't believe the amp should be returned to the seller either. They sold the amp and were compensated for it. After that ownership falls to the buyer and the claim was handled between them and Reverb.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Ohhhh, I'm interested to hear that story

Simple: We bought one and should be flogged for doing so. I'm a REAL coffee guy. Roast my own beans, have all the methods of making good fresh coffee, so the whole concept is a joke. But we bought one for when we travel and camp. Used it for one week and it quit working. My wife called CS and they told her to take a toothpick and clean the little water spout spikes that poke through the top of the kcup. She did and it didn't work. They sent us a new one immediately. My wife told my daughter who is a shameless Keurig user, and she told her to try a paper clip instead of a toothpick. My wife did it, and it cleared the clog and it worked. My wife called CS back and told them not to send the new one. They said "too late, it's already shipped AND ours was officially "decommissioned" meaning we can make no further calls or claims for warranty, etc. My wife said "but it works now so we don't need a new one, why don't we just refuse shipping so they send it back. Lady said no, it was already done and that we could keep it.

So we ordered another box of kcups and donated it all to the homeless shelter.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

The seller did not refund the money, Reverb reimbursed the buyer. Why should the amp go back to the seller? They got paid for the amp. At this point its only between the buyer and Reverb.

The buyer should have either A) refunded the money to Reverb, or B) Sent the amp back to the seller and reverb should have taken back the payment. One way or the other, buyer has no right to a perfectly functioning amp AND a full refund. He should have sent the money back to Reverb and the amp is his to do what he wants too with it. Just because they did it, doesn't make it right!

 

[Johnny Alien]

You know you can't just send money to a company right? Reverb sends funds to your bank account. How would one send money to Reverb without a bill or statement? The only way to do it would be to contact them and ask them to. if Reverb chooses to allow the buyer to have the amp and the money that is their decision to make as they are the insurer. And if the buyer DID contact them (and I have no idea if they did or not) and Reverb decides they don't want a refund then that buyer has every right to sell it as Reverb agreed to it. You may have a very different opinion of what he should do with it but it wouldn't be fraud in that scenario and he would be legally in the right to sell it. But again....the seller has nothing to do with any of this at this point. They were paid and ownership went to the buyer.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

You know you can't just send money to a company right? Reverb sends funds to your bank account. How would one send money to Reverb without a bill or statement? The only way to do it would be to contact them and ask them to. if Reverb chooses to allow the buyer to have the amp and the money that is their decision to make as they are the insurer. And if the buyer DID contact them (and I have no idea if they did or not) and Reverb decides they don't want a refund then that buyer has every right to sell it as Reverb agreed to it. You may have a very different opinion of what he should do with it but it wouldn't be fraud in that scenario and he would be legally in the right to sell it. But again....the seller has nothing to do with any of this at this point. They were paid and ownership went to the buyer.

I know the seller got his money. But crying wolf, and getting paid for it, even if unintentional initially, does not mean it's OK to keep the amp and the money. Let them know that nothing was wrong with the amp and arrange to send the money back. Man up and do what's RIGHT!

That said, you or anyone else is not obligated to live by my moral code. If you think it's "OK" then you do what you want. I don't take what doesn't belong to me or take other peoples money for nothing.

 

[aamefford]

My rough take on this is that reverb is ok for the buyer, and a horrible place for a seller, at least if you are an individual seller. The OP’s experience avoiding getting screwed out of an amp and the purchase price should be embarrassing for reverb. If they don’t have sellers, they cease to exist.

 

[JasonE]

I hope you’re correct, because the guy got a fully functioning amp, and his money back. Does anyone have morals any more? He didn’t buy that from some business and even if he did, it’s no better. There is no moral justification for getting the amp and your money back. Man up and refund the money, or send the amp back to the seller.

I can only go by what was posted here. From looking at that, it was Reverb that made the decision to let him keep it. He tried to return it and the seller refused the return. I asked in another post, what do people expect him to do with the amp. Put yourself in his shoes. He tried to return the amp and was denied. Reverb gave him the refund anyway and they didn't want the amp back. What should he do with the amp?

 

[MusiquedeReve]

I can only go by what was posted here. From looking at that, it was Reverb that made the decision to let him keep it. He tried to return it and the seller refused the return. I asked in another post, what do people expect him to do with the amp. Put yourself in his shoes. He tried to return the amp and was denied. Reverb gave him the refund anyway and they didn't want the amp back. What should he do with the amp?

Why did he buy the amp in the first place? Amp worked perfectly - all LEDs worked perfectly. My speculation is that buyer already had the same amp and knew of the factory "mod" but had the need for certain parts from it such as blue LEDs and went into the transaction in "bad faith" -- but, that is my mere speculation - what do I know

 

[JasonE]

I know the seller got his money. But crying wolf, and getting paid for it, even if unintentional initially, does not mean it's OK to keep the amp and the money. Let them know that nothing was wrong with the amp and arrange to send the money back. Man up and do what's RIGHT!

That said, you or anyone else is not obligated to live by my moral code. If you think it's "OK" then you do what you want. I don't take what doesn't belong to me or take other peoples money for nothing.

If you put yourself in the buyer's shoes, he didn't cry wolf. He received an amp with two blown LEDs and a modified board that was not revealed in the listing. If you purchased an amp that was supposedly perfect and received one that had these issues I am sure you would want it to be right.

If you look at the timeline, like I have suggested a few times now, the seller didn't reach out to PRS until I pointed out that someone else in this thread said they had the same amp and theirs had been modified at the factory when it was built. He hadn't thought about it being a factory mod. Once he reached out to PRS, they verified it was a factory mod. He then sent the email to Reverb and informed them. However, Reverb had already made a decision and paid people out.

You notice when the guy listed the amp for sale after it was all said and done, he noted the LEDs and the board modification in his listing? I don't see this guy as malicious or a scammer by the information presented here. People seem to have an issue with the fact that he got to keep the amp. He didn't ask to keep it. That is just how Reverb chose to settle it. I see the people complaining about that as being jealous of his situation so they are throwing hate in his direction.

 

[JasonE]

Why did he buy the amp in the first place? Amp worked perfectly - all LEDs worked perfectly. My speculation is that buyer already had the same amp and knew of the factory "mod" but had the need for certain parts from it such as blue LEDs and went into the transaction in "bad faith" -- but, that is my mere speculation - what do I know

You are now suggesting that he bought your amp to take two blue LEDs out of it then file a claim? You are really reaching there. Up to this point IMHO neither party has done anything wrong outside of being a little too emotionally charged in the situation. This statement is crossing the line into accusation, which I believe the facts point to being an incorrect statement.

I am done commenting on this situation and trying to talk sense into people that were IMHO harassing someone that doesn't deserve it. The fact that this conversation has gone this way when the facts are right in front of people is just another example of the division in our ranks. If this were a situation that had gone to court, it would have turned out the exact same way.

 

[Nadir]

Why did he buy the amp in the first place? Amp worked perfectly - all LEDs worked perfectly. My speculation is that buyer already had the same amp and knew of the factory "mod" but had the need for certain parts from it such as blue LEDs and went into the transaction in "bad faith" -- but, that is my mere speculation - what do I know

This is a speculation, maybe right but speculation (in Italy we have a saying: "bad thinking is sin but often is truth" )

I can only go by what was posted here. From looking at that, it was Reverb that made the decision to let him keep it. He tried to return it and the seller refused the return. I asked in another post, what do people expect him to do with the amp. Put yourself in his shoes. He tried to return the amp and was denied. Reverb gave him the refund anyway and they didn't want the amp back. What should he do with the amp?

This are facts

 

[MusiquedeReve]

If this were a situation that had gone to court, it would have turned out the exact same way.

What evidence would be presented that the buyer did not receive the amp as it had been sold originally? An amp brand new from the PRS factory with the mod, is still a brand new amp - it was part of PRS's design and I did nothing to "mod" the amp as received from PRS. The "two blown LEDs" is, at best, questionable - and the buyer admitted to opening up the amp - I am not sure the outcome in court would be as you claim

 

[JasonE]

What evidence would be presented that the buyer did not receive the amp as it had been sold originally? An amp brand new from the PRS factory with the mod, is still a brand new amp - it was part of PRS's design and I did nothing to "mod" the amp as received from PRS. The "two blown LEDs" is, at best, questionable - and the buyer admitted to opening up the amp - I am not sure the outcome in court would be as you claim

In the US a person is innocent until proven guilty. What evidence do you have that he did as you accuse? Opening the amp does not implicate him. He may have seen the modification on the board through the vent holes and decided to open it up to see what was going on and get a picture of it. You have proof the board mod was from the factory. There is no photographic proof that the LEDs were working before you boxed it up and shipped it. There is nothing here to substantiate your new accusation. It would still have gone the same way in court.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

If you put yourself in the buyer's shoes, he didn't cry wolf. He received an amp with two blown LEDs and a modified board that was not revealed in the listing. If you purchased an amp that was supposedly perfect and received one that had these issues I am sure you would want it to be right.

If you look at the timeline, like I have suggested a few times now, the seller didn't reach out to PRS until I pointed out that someone else in this thread said they had the same amp and theirs had been modified at the factory when it was built. He hadn't thought about it being a factory mod. Once he reached out to PRS, they verified it was a factory mod. He then sent the email to Reverb and informed them. However, Reverb had already made a decision and paid people out.

You notice when the guy listed the amp for sale after it was all said and done, he noted the LEDs and the board modification in his listing? I don't see this guy as malicious or a scammer by the information presented here. People seem to have an issue with the fact that he got to keep the amp. He didn't ask to keep it. That is just how Reverb chose to settle it. I see the people complaining about that as being jealous of his situation so they are throwing hate in his direction.

The LEDs weren't blown when OP had it, so they may have been caused when buyer opened it.
The amp was not modified, which implies someone other than the factory did something to it, it was COMPLETELY stock.

I assure you I'm not "jealous of his situation," and I hate nobody, (although, people who throw "hate" out there every time you say something is wrong do get at least a big rolleyes and a significant amount of disgust) so I revert too...

boy cried wolf. Found out he was wrong. Got the money and the amp, and should have refunded the money to reverb.