I am done selling on Reverb: PRS Tremonti MT-15 saga

[VirginiaAve]

I've found that once Reverb sold to Etsy, and was not a part of CME anymore, that their policies and cust service changed dramatically

 

[JasonE]

I agree it probably started out as a misunderstanding but then moved more into an abuse of the system or an ethics question. We all end up paying for these situations with higher fees or policy changes.

How did it turn into an abuse of the system or an ethics question? What do you expect the guy to do? Reverb told him to keep it. Do you expect him to just throw it in the trash? It is an item with a value and they gave it to him. If you are not in agreement with Reverb letting him keep it, that is an issue with Reverb, not this guy. Like I said in my post, put yourself in this guy's shoes for a bit. This is why I don't understand why people have an issue with this guy.

 

[MusiquedeReve]

How did it turn into an abuse of the system or an ethics question? What do you expect the guy to do? Reverb told him to keep it. Do you expect him to just throw it in the trash? It is an item with a value and they gave it to him. If you are not in agreement with Reverb letting him keep it, that is an issue with Reverb, not this guy. Like I said in my post, put yourself in this guy's shoes for a bit. This is why I don't understand why people have an issue with this guy.

Once he knew that the amp was not "modded" and was as it was when it left the PRS factory, he could have still returned it and I would have accepted it -- he never claimed the amp did not work

 

[21Hemispheres12]

I don't understand the hate for this guy. It was proven in this thread that he bought the amp then found two blown LEDs and a modified board when he received it. The amp shipped from the factory this way but these things were not mentioned in the original sale thread because the OP never opened the amp to look at it. It was a MISUNDERSTANDING!

The guy didn't like the amp and is now selling it. Who cares? He hasn't done anything wrong. I would not have been happy if I received that amp with those things he has noted if they were not disclosed. I also would not have been happy with someone saying that I sold them something that was defective if I was the OP. Reverb took the hit and paid both guys. That is pretty upstanding in my book.

The guy has decided to move the amp now. It isn't his fault that Reverb decided to let him keep the amp. He wanted to return the amp. He has priced it where he feels is appropriate for the market. The hate seems to be because he got something for nothing. He didn't attempt to scam anyone. He felt like he got screwed.

I can easily see both sides of this story. It is a very unfortunate misunderstanding. To me, it is a bad look on those harassing him thinking he is a scammer. It is sad that everyone wants to see bad intentions in others, even when they are not there. Put yourselves in this guy's shoes for a few minutes. It is pretty easy for me to see how it all unfolded. I expect I will get the same treatment as this guy is getting for pointing out the facts. I have my flame suit on so flame away.

My issue is Reverb gave him a full refund and let him keep an amp that turned out to be as it was from the factory.

As far as the LEDs go, the original seller said when he sent it they all worked. The buyer gets it and obviously opened up the amp so how do we he didn’t mess something up when he was in there and then try to blame the seller? That obviously seems like his intention since he tried to claim the seller modified the amp without even bothering to check with PRS to make sure it was modified, which it wasn’t.

I see your point but the more people abuse the system the more Reverb is going to raise their fees to cover their losses. I wouldn’t have had an issue of him reselling the amp if he didn’t get it for free on Reverbs dime, which is really our dime because that’s what fees pay for.

 

[JasonE]

Once he knew that the amp was not "modded" and was as it was when it left the PRS factory, he could have still returned it and I would have accepted it -- he never claimed the amp did not work

Then you would have been the guy with both the amp and the money. That makes it better?

He claimed that two LEDs were blown out and the board was modified. Both turned out to be true. He tried to return it and you refused. It got escalated and Reverb let you keep the sale and gave him a refund. Is all of your anger based on the fact that he had possession of the amp when the refunds came so he got to keep both and you didn't? I still don't see why people are harassing this guy. It sounds like all of your beefs are with Reverb.

 

[JasonE]

My issue is Reverb gave him a full refund and let him keep an amp that turned out to be as it was from the factory.

As far as the LEDs go, the original seller said when he sent it they all worked. The buyer gets it and obviously opened up the amp so how do we he didn’t mess something up when he was in there and then try to blame the seller? That obviously seems like his intention since he tried to claim the seller modified the amp without even bothering to check with PRS to make sure it was modified, which it wasn’t.

I see your point but the more people abuse the system the more Reverb is going to raise their fees to cover their losses. I wouldn’t have had an issue of him reselling the amp if he didn’t get it for free on Reverbs dime, which is really our dime because that’s what fees pay for.

Look at the timing of everything in this thread. The refunds were done by the time they found out the mod was from the factory.

The buyer obviously didn't try to blame the seller for something he did. PRS verified that the mod of the board was done at the factory. Why would it be up to the buyer to verify the mod with PRS? If I were in his shoes, I would not reach out to the manufacturer on something like that. It looks like it was done after it was released. The seller reached out to PRS and received the verification that it was done at the factory. However, that verification came after the refund was already given.

It sounds like your issue is more with how Reverb handled it and not the buyer. This is starting to look like the common though. That takes me back to really not understanding why everyone is hating on and harassing the buyer on this. I still don't see that he has done anything wrong.

 

[21Hemispheres12]

Look at the timing of everything in this thread. The refunds were done by the time they found out the mod was from the factory.

The buyer obviously didn't try to blame the seller for something he did. PRS verified that the mod of the board was done at the factory. Why would it be up to the buyer to verify the mod with PRS? If I were in his shoes, I would not reach out to the manufacturer on something like that. It looks like it was done after it was released. The seller reached out to PRS and received the verification that it was done at the factory. However, that verification came after the refund was already given.

It sounds like your issue is more with how Reverb handled it and not the buyer. This is starting to look like the common though. That takes me back to really not understanding why everyone is hating on and harassing the buyer on this. I still don't see that he has done anything wrong.

The buyer was the one making the claim the amp was modified so it would have been on them to provide the evidence of such. A quick message to PRS would have resolved the whole issue as they would have told the buyer the amp was not modified. Instead the seller made a blind accusation and drug the seller and Reverb around and then when it came to light that they were wrong they decided to profit on it.

 

[MusiquedeReve]

Then you would have been the guy with both the amp and the money. That makes it better?

He claimed that two LEDs were blown out and the board was modified. Both turned out to be true. He tried to return it and you refused. It got escalated and Reverb let you keep the sale and gave him a refund. Is all of your anger based on the fact that he had possession of the amp when the refunds came so he got to keep both and you didn't? I still don't see why people are harassing this guy. It sounds like all of your beefs are with Reverb.

How would I have been the guy with both the amp and money? Once PRS stated the amp was as it was when it left the factory, if buyer did not want it, I would have issued a refund and he would have sent the amp back

 

[MusiquedeReve]

Look at the timing of everything in this thread. The refunds were done by the time they found out the mod was from the factory.

The buyer obviously didn't try to blame the seller for something he did. PRS verified that the mod of the board was done at the factory. Why would it be up to the buyer to verify the mod with PRS? If I were in his shoes, I would not reach out to the manufacturer on something like that. It looks like it was done after it was released. The seller reached out to PRS and received the verification that it was done at the factory. However, that verification came after the refund was already given.

It sounds like your issue is more with how Reverb handled it and not the buyer. This is starting to look like the common though. That takes me back to really not understanding why everyone is hating on and harassing the buyer on this. I still don't see that he has done anything wrong.

The buyer DID blame me - he accused me of "modding" the amp and not disclosing it to him that I did so

 

[JasonE]

The buyer was the one making the claim the amp was modified so it would have been on them to provide the evidence of such. A quick message to PRS would have resolved the whole issue as they would have told the buyer the amp was not modified. Instead the seller made a blind accusation and drug the seller and Reverb around and then when it came to light that they were wrong they decided to profit on it.

That isn't how this works. He made the claim to Reverb, where he bought the item though. He provide proof in the form of photographs. It is up to the seller at that point to prove they didn't misrepresent the item. The seller did reach out to PRS and received a confirmation that it was done at the factory. The sad part is that it happened after Reverb made a decision and issued the refund.

The buyer didn't make a blind accusation. He had proof of what he was complaining about. He proved it with pictures. They are in this thread.

The thing that made me respond to this is that this guy didn't do anything that any of us would do if we received an item that wasn't what we thought we were getting. People started calling him a scammer and started stalking his listings and started sending him messages and reporting his listing. He doesn't deserve that.

 

[JasonE]

How would I have been the guy with both the amp and money? Once PRS stated the amp was as it was when it left the factory, if buyer did not want it, I would have issued a refund and he would have sent the amp back

The buyer DID blame me - he accused me of "modding" the amp and not disclosing it to him that I did so

Again, put yourself in his shoes. Forget your whole side of it and only look at it from his side. He has valid points. I am not saying you did anything wrong. The only thing you could have done to get a better resolution was to confirm it with PRS as soon as he reported to be able to let him know that it came from the factory that way. At that point you could have told him that it was not modified. I am saying it was a matter of timing. Reverb beat you to resolving it. I just don't think the guy deserves the treatment he is getting from people who were not even part of the transaction.

 

[21Hemispheres12]

That isn't how this works. He made the claim to Reverb, where he bought the item though. He provide proof in the form of photographs. It is up to the seller at that point to prove they didn't misrepresent the item. The seller did reach out to PRS and received a confirmation that it was done at the factory. The sad part is that it happened after Reverb made a decision and issued the refund.

The buyer didn't make a blind accusation. He had proof of what he was complaining about. He proved it with pictures. They are in this thread.

The thing that made me respond to this is that this guy didn't do anything that any of us would do if we received an item that wasn't what we thought we were getting. People started calling him a scammer and started stalking his listings and started sending him messages and reporting his listing. He doesn't deserve that.

He provided no proof because his pictures were of an unmodded amp. I see where you are coming from but I know I personally would have verified that the amp was indeed modified before I accused the seller of modifying it. The scam comes from getting a complete refund for an amp you claim was broken and then turning around and selling the same “broken” amp as excellent condition.

If you want you bend over backwards to justify what this guy did that’s fine but I just don’t agree.

Also, burden of proof falls on the party making the claim. Seller said he never opened the amp so it’s up to the person claiming it was modified to prove it was modified. So yes that’s exactly how this works.

 

[JasonE]

He provided no proof because his pictures were of an unmodded amp. I see where you are coming from but I know I personally would have verified that the amp was indeed modified before I accused the seller of modifying it. The scam comes from getting a complete refund for an amp you claim was broken and then turning around and selling the same “broken” amp as excellent condition.

If you want you bend over backwards to justify what this guy did that’s fine but I just don’t agree.

The picture he provided is in the first post in this thread. It clearly shows someone took a dremel to the board. It was modded at the factory, as also shown in this thread. He didn't scam anything. Reverb basically gave him a gift. Your beef is with Reverb. This guy didn't do anything wrong. It was Reverb's decision to let him keep it. He doesn't deserve the harassment that has been sent his way.

I am not bending over backwards to justify anything. I would have handled it just like he did. I would have called out the modification. It wasn't listed in the sale ad. The seller didn't even know it was there. He asked to return it and get a refund and the seller denied it. It is all in the first post.

It was, as I have already said, a misunderstanding with bad timing that got out of hand. I hope you don't ever end up in a situation like this and have a bunch of people that were not part of the transaction sending you hate mail. I am sure he has some thoughts about bad sellers on Reverb over this and it is all something that could have turned out different with a little patience.

 

[21Hemispheres12]

The picture he provided is in the first post in this thread. It clearly shows someone took a dremel to the board. It was modded at the factory, as also shown in this thread. He didn't scam anything. Reverb basically gave him a gift. Your beef is with Reverb. This guy didn't do anything wrong. It was Reverb's decision to let him keep it. He doesn't deserve the harassment that has been sent his way.

I am not bending over backwards to justify anything. I would have handled it just like he did. I would have called out the modification. It wasn't listed in the sale ad. The seller didn't even know it was there. He asked to return it and get a refund and the seller denied it. It is all in the first post.

It was, as I have already said, a misunderstanding with bad timing that got out of hand. I hope you don't ever end up in a situation like this and have a bunch of people that were not part of the transaction sending you hate mail. I am sure he has some thoughts about bad sellers on Reverb over this and it is all something that could have turned out different with a little patience.

Ah I wasn’t aware Reverb was in the gift giving business and how an amp comes from the manufacture is considered modified. I see where the misunderstanding is now.

 

[JasonE]

Ah I wasn’t aware Reverb was in the gift giving business and how an amp comes from the manufacture is considered modified. I see where the misunderstanding is now.

Ignore the facts if it makes you feel better. It doesn't change them. Karma has a way of working things out.

 

[Johnny Alien]

Ah I wasn’t aware Reverb was in the gift giving business and how an amp comes from the manufacture is considered modified. I see where the misunderstanding is now.

The original board/layout was indeed modified. PRS did it themselves and admitted that is what they had been doing. If the board comes in one way and then someone intentionally changes it that is a modification. And yes...a manufacturer can "mod" their own product.

 

[21Hemispheres12]

The original board/layout was indeed modified. PRS did it themselves and admitted that is what they had been doing. If the board comes in one way and then someone intentionally changes it that is a modification. And yes...a manufacturer can "mod" their own product.

Yea I get it now. The seller should have contacted PRS and requested any design changes that have ever happened to the MT15 and then opened up his own amp to see what “factory mods” had been performed so he could accurately describe all those mods in his listing. That sounds reasonable to me.

 

[Johnny Alien]

I didn't say that he should have done that. It would be reasonable AFTER the buyer saw the mods (and that is exactly what the OP did). My point is that an amp can indeed come modified by the original factory and it would still be considered a mod.

 

[SinSir]

Yup, this guy is a victim and while were at it Reverb should seek restitution from PRS. M'kay

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Ignore the facts if it makes you feel better. It doesn't change them. Karma has a way of working things out.

I hope you’re correct, because the guy got a fully functioning amp, and his money back. Does anyone have morals any more? He didn’t buy that from some business and even if he did, it’s no better. There is no moral justification for getting the amp and your money back. Man up and refund the money, or send the amp back to the seller.