HXDA 30 Compared To HXDA 50

[László]

After a couple of more days with the HXDA 30 (and the 1x12 pine PRS Stealth cab), I thought it might be interesting to talk a little bit about where the two amps sound different. The caveat is that I don't have the 2x12 Mesa cab I used to use with the HXDA 50, so the comparison may or may not apply with that cab, though I think it's probably going to be similar to at least some degree based on the fact that my tone control settings work out to be similar to the ones I used on the Mesa 2x12.

The layout of the two amps are exactly the same. The tubes are the same. The chassis are the same. The head box is the same. The difference is mostly that the 30 runs with a lower plate voltage, so the B+ voltage is different. But there may be other differences I don't know about.

And yes, I did have to look up what the B+ voltage is and how the lower plate voltage affects it, because I'm not an electrical engineer and I don't build amps or repair them.

In any case, the master volume behaves differently on the 30 than it does on the 50. On the 50 watt version, anything over about 9 or 10 o'clock on the master causes the power tubes to influence the tone. On the 30, I'm mostly hearing the preamp tubes dominate until I get the master over about 1-2 o'clock, unless I set the HX and DA gains lower on the preamp side. So there seems to be more of a relationship between the preamp gain and master volume settings. The difference in the power amp section probably accounts for these differences.

I run the HX and DA gains a little lower on the 30 than I did on the 50. Again, I think this is because the 50 watt version has a different power amp scheme.

While the overall tone of the two amps is very similar in terms of frequency response and balance (noting the exception of the low end), my 30 watt amp is slightly more responsive to touch and picking for some reason. That might simply be down to the differences between any two hand wired amps, potentiometer variations, and what-have-you.

The 50 watt version (at least with a 2x12) is more accurately "Duane Allman" and "Live at the Fillmore" than the 30. If I was playing out, I'd want the 50. The 30 Watt version is easier to get a great recorded tone with, and the fact that it's not causing the room to rattle and buzz does really help. For recording in a home studio, which is what I use the amp for, I prefer the 30.

Again, one thing to keep in mind here is that comparing a new 1x12 cab to a broken-in 2x12 cab built with different materials (pine v birch ply) is going to have a significant impact on the tone in the room. So I do plan to try the new head with my 2x12 DG cab. I didn't like the 50 watt HXDA with the DG cab. But this one might work really well. It's something I'll try over the weekend, however, I will be recording with the 1x12 since it's a lot less problematic because it excites fewer room modes.

I'll try to record some clips of the amp over the weekend. Have a great evening, everyone!

 

[Egads]

Interesting info. Thanks for sharing. I'm interested in hearing how it sounds with the DG cab, since you weren't happy with the 50 through it.

Congrats on getting amp in, btw.

 

[Chester]

Thanks for the feedback Les

I guess the B+ voltage setting is similar to the variac power settings available on modern day Mesa's - drops power by reconfiguring the power section, lowers percieved output, affects the pre / power amp relationship, and changes feel under the fingers

Would be great if PRS could capture the mojo of both 30 & 50 watt in the same amp with a variac type switch. Interesting that Mesa, Redplate, TR, Matchless and Bad Cat (to name a few in my recent experience) have gone down that route. Adds real flexibility

 

[FJ4]

Congrats on your new Amp Les! hope you are very satisfied and good luck!

 

[justmund]

Thanks for your feedback and sharing Les

What are your other settings like compared to the 50?

 

[László]

Thanks for the good wishes all!

Thanks for the feedback Les

I guess the B+ voltage setting is similar to the variac power settings available on modern day Mesa's - drops power by reconfiguring the power section, lowers percieved output, affects the pre / power amp relationship, and changes feel under the fingers

Would be great if PRS could capture the mojo of both 30 & 50 watt in the same amp with a variac type switch. Interesting that Mesa, Redplate, TR, Matchless and Bad Cat (to name a few in my recent experience) have gone down that route. Adds real flexibility

It would be a nice feature to have a half power switch on these amps, but maybe they've found that it affects the tone in some unwanted way with this particular design. They have the switch on the Archon, and the original 25th Anniversary Amp, on which the HXDA is based, had a variac.

I've owned the Mark V that has the 10-45-90 watt feature; a couple of Two-Rocks that were switchable from 50>35 watts; and a Bad Cat Hot Cat 30 that didn't have it, but was only 30 watts anyway. I wound up recording with the Mesa clean at 10 watts, but using the 45 watt setting for the other channels. With the TRs, I used them at 35 watts mostly in my own studio, but there were some sessions at other studios where I opened them up more with old Marshall cabs.

In any case, I've found that 30-ish watts is an ideal amount of power for my recording rigs. The Hot Cat, a Mesa Maverick, a Mesa Blue Angel, a Bogner Metropolis, and of course AC30 were all in that range, and suited the rooms I've had.

Of these amps, the only one I had an issue with was the Blue Angel, that simply didn't have enough power in a live setting, though that may have been due to the 2x10 alnico speaker cab I used with it. Sounded great in the studio though. And of course it had a variety of power settings depending on which tube combination was selected.

What are your other settings like compared to the 50?

I run the DA gain higher, and the HX gain a little lower, but for the most part, my settings are pretty similar for both amps so far. The switches are usually DA/HX/HX for the Singlecut, and DA/DA/HX for the CU24. HX Gain around 11 o'clock to 1 o'clock, DA gain around 9 o'clock to 10 o'clock, then Treble 10-11 o'clock depending on guitar and mood, mids around 1-2 o'clock, and bass around noon to 2 o'clock depending on guitar or effects settings.

Of course, neither the guitar nor the amp are broken in, so these settings will likely change a little over time.

 

[andy474x]

Dig it! The more I play my amp, the more I'm convinced that 30 watts is perfect for almost everything I do. Recording with a Nashville engineer this weekend, we set up my amp and got our tones set lastnight and it's coming through really well. It also hits the sweet spot on stage, AND won't put me in a wheelchair by 50. Someday when the bank account is looking good, I think an HX/DA will be coming home with me.

Having that DG30 and the HXDA must be a dream come true. They just sound so damn good. Classic crunch, and that robust tone of the DG. The only problem here is I don't watch TV much, so I don't hear a lot of your work!

 

[g.wizz]

Congrats Les i'm sure you'll work wonders with this new puppy

roud:

 

[László]

I don't watch TV much, either! Except Michigan football...

 

[László]

Updated Report:

Today I spent some time with the HXDA 30 plugged into the DG Custom 2x12 cab instead of the PRS closed back 1x12.

While I wasn't crazy about the HXDA 50 into this cab, I really like the 30 watt into it. The sound is rich, spacious, and more like that Allman-ish sound I remember from the 50. It's very possible that I didn't spend enough time with this cab and the 50 watt version. I had set the 50 up for the closed back Mesa cab made of birch ply, a brighter cab with a very different sound from the pine DG with its dual ports in the rear that make it a semi-open back. So maybe I got impatient, or maybe the DG cab simply works better with the 30 for some technical reason I'm not certain of.

In any case, with the two cabs in the studio, I have a very viable alternative to the 1x12 when I want something a little different, for example, when I want to use a ribbon on one speaker, and a dynamic or condenser on the other speaker.

With either cab, I'm finding that I prefer the HXDA 30 with its master volume higher than I put it with the 50, and with the DA gain and HX gain lower. Again, this could simply be due to a combination of variations in potentiometer tolerances and the relationship between the preamp and power amp circuits. But the 30 is proving itself to be a very versatile performer, and I gotta say I'm really having a great time recording with it!

Having that DG30 and the HXDA must be a dream come true. They just sound so damn good. Classic crunch, and that robust tone of the DG.

You're right, it's definitely a good dream realized!

And you should hear this thing pushed into very high gain by the Bogner Burnley pedal! It's proving to be a great combination, because unlike most ODs and distortion pedals, the transformer on the Burnley seems to keep the bottom end distinct so it isn't mushy. The result is more like a high gain tube amp than an amp pushed by a pedal.

 

[justmund]

I run the DA gain higher, and the HX gain a little lower, but for the most part, my settings are pretty similar for both amps so far. The switches are usually DA/HX/HX for the Singlecut, and DA/DA/HX for the CU24. HX Gain around 11 o'clock to 1 o'clock, DA gain around 9 o'clock to 10 o'clock, then Treble 10-11 o'clock depending on guitar and mood, mids around 1-2 o'clock, and bass around noon to 2 o'clock depending on guitar or effects settings.

Thanks Les

My settings are pretty close to this, same TMB but I run in all HX mode and with the gain a bit higher. I guess my preference is for a bit more bite and less of the warmth.

I still can't get over how good these amps sound!

 

[László]

Thanks Les

My settings are pretty close to this, same TMB but I run in all HX mode and with the gain a bit higher. I guess my preference is for a bit more bite and less of the warmth.

I still can't get over how good these amps sound!

They're the perfect recipe, as far as I'm concerned. Both the 30 and the 50.

At some point I may try some NOS tubes in it. I have an extra set of BRIMAR 12AX7s from the 60s, and I'm scouting around for some NOS Mullard power amp tubes.

 

[CatStrangler]

Updated Report:

Today I spent some time with the HXDA 30 plugged into the DG Custom 2x12 cab instead of the PRS closed back 1x12.

While I wasn't crazy about the HXDA 50 into this cab, I really like the 30 watt into it. The sound is rich, spacious, and more like that Allman-ish sound I remember from the 50. It's very possible that I didn't spend enough time with this cab and the 50 watt version. I had set the 50 up for the closed back Mesa cab made of birch ply, a brighter cab with a very different sound from the pine DG with its dual ports in the rear that make it a semi-open back. So maybe I got impatient, or maybe the DG cab simply works better with the 30 for some technical reason I'm not certain of.

In any case, with the two cabs in the studio, I have a very viable alternative to the 1x12 when I want something a little different, for example, when I want to use a ribbon on one speaker, and a dynamic or condenser on the other speaker.

With either cab, I'm finding that I prefer the HXDA 30 with its master volume higher than I put it with the 50, and with the DA gain and HX gain lower.

On my 2X12 HXDA 30, I'm usually finding the Master at about three o'clock is a good spot.

 

[László]

On my 2X12 HXDA 30, I'm usually finding the Master at about three o'clock is a good spot.

Thanks! I'm finding somewhere near there, give or take, produces a really fine tone.

I had a fun day fussing with the gear today.

 

[justmund]

On my 2X12 HXDA 30, I'm usually finding the Master at about three o'clock is a good spot.

I have the same amp, and that is LOUD! I don't think I've gone past one o'clock... Guess I'd better go try it out!

 

[László]

I have the same amp, and that is LOUD! I don't think I've gone past one o'clock... Guess I'd better go try it out!

The tone does get more like the 50 when you're pushing the MV like that. You may want to reduce the gain on the preamp to compensate, kind of the old-school way.

 

[CatStrangler]

I have the same amp, and that is LOUD! I don't think I've gone past one o'clock... Guess I'd better go try it out!

It is loud if the volume is wide open on your instrument, but I find there is still good tone to be had with the guitar volume rolled down, especially if I bump up the presence.

 

[Boogie]

Most interesting, Les. It almost sounds like you prefer the 30 to the 50 watter. I can sense your raised eyebrows from Indianapolis.

So, are we talking esoteric differences, or a completely different variation on a theme? As a combo, it felt raw and brash, almost overly tight (probably needed breaking in) with tons of headroom...surprisingly so. It LOVES single coils. But again, I didn't spot the warmth that I gravitate toward. You describe the head with closed back cabs (which I typically employ) as I would want it. Very compelling.

It has been my experience, with Doug's single channel amp designs, that the sweet-spot of the power stage is at 2:00-4:00. Is this by design? Is it my personal preference? Not sure, but it helps me gauge which amp to take to a gig. If I can't let a 50w loose to get that perfect vibe, will a 30w do it? Or do I need a 20w? Again, I would be giddy if PRS had those 3 scaled power sections in one amp.

The PRS closed-back 1x12 and 2x12 cabs are getting all of my attention, these days. The 1x12 isn't an exact tonal duplicate of the 2x12, but it is close enough for keeping the volume down. How do you find the comparison, though you have the ported 2x12? And I keep forgetting...there's no partition baffle in that cab, either. How do you like that?

 

[László]

It is loud if the volume is wide open on your instrument, but I find there is still good tone to be had with the guitar volume rolled down, especially if I bump up the presence.

Yes, very true and that's how I run it my guitar, too. :shakehands:

Most interesting, Les. It almost sounds like you prefer the 30 to the 50 watter. I can sense your raised eyebrows from Indianapolis.

Actually, all things being equal, I prefer the 50 by a small margin. It has more headroom, and it sounds bigger. If I had a professionally designed, larger space for recording, I would choose the 50. But I have a typical home studio room to work in, and while it's pretty large (34x14), it has the usual issues that most small studio recordists are well aware of.

There's only a few db of difference between a 30 watt amp and a 50 watt amp, but those few db seem to make a pretty significant difference in my room.

So the 30 watt version is a better and more practical choice for me.

So, are we talking esoteric differences, or a completely different variation on a theme?

Depends on your definition of esoteric. It sounds an awful lot like the 50 watt head The differences are that it doesn't have as much headroom for playing clean or have as much deep grunt as the 50 that gives the 50 that freight train thing.

However, those are the only differences I hear.

As a combo, it felt raw and brash, almost overly tight (probably needed breaking in) with tons of headroom...surprisingly so. It LOVES single coils. But again, I didn't spot the warmth that I gravitate toward. You describe the head with closed back cabs (which I typically employ) as I would want it. Very compelling.

Mine's plenty warm, every bit as warm as the 50. As warm as anything I've ever heard. But I'm not hearing the headroom you're talking about.

The PRS closed-back 1x12 and 2x12 cabs are getting all of my attention, these days. The 1x12 isn't an exact tonal duplicate of the 2x12, but it is close enough for keeping the volume down. How do you find the comparison, though you have the ported 2x12? And I keep forgetting...there's no partition baffle in that cab, either. How do you like that?

I have heard the PRS closed back 2x12. Paul dropped one off at a store in my area. I think the 1x12 sounds very similar, and is just not as room-shaking. Of course, no 1x12 has the swirl of a good 2x12.

The DG cab isn't all that different from the closed back version, I am finding. It does tend to be a little looser on the bottom end. I thought that it was overwhelmed on the bass by the 50 watt amp, but it sounds great with the 30.

I'm not sure I that what I hear on the DG cab relates to the baffle, it's probably one of many factors, but the cabinet might be the most swirly cab I've ever heard, especially with the amp turned up. I like that a lot!

My next PRS addition will be their 4x10 cab. That'll be a different flavor! :top:

 

[Boogie]

My next PRS addition will be their 4x10 cab. That'll be a different flavor! :top:

I totally approve of that direction change. :rock: you might need a couple new gobos, too. I imagine it could get a little loud.