How many pedals before tone suck.
- Thread starter markj
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Stonelands
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- Jan 22, 2015
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I find it depends on the pedal themselves. I once had three pedals: Barber gain changer, Strymon Timeline and a Hardwire tuner. I thought I would have no problems with this set up but noticed as soon as I got it going that my signal suddenly sounded a lot more flat and lifeless. Interestingly, removing the Hardwire fixed this problem. Currently I've still got the GC and I'm running it with a Maxon AD-999 and an Empress Compressor and have noticed no issues.
I honestly would not want to be stuck with more than 4 pedals (and I'm happy with three) at the absolute most but that is just me.
I honestly would not want to be stuck with more than 4 pedals (and I'm happy with three) at the absolute most but that is just me.
XiXora
New Member
Maybe a true-bypass looper would help?
Buffers vary in quality. Some sound great, some not so much. A good buffer should allow you to use stage or studio length cables in excess of 30-40 feet with no loss of fidelity. If you use a ten foot cable between the guitar and the buffer, you're better off than if you use a 20 foot cable between the guitar and the buffer. However, after the buffer, you should be able to run some fairly long cable lengths, and certainly more than 4 pedals.
The cables between pedals, guitar, and amp can also affect the tone. The pedals themselves can affect the tone, depending on whether they really are true bypass (there are a few types of bypass labeled true bypass that arguably are not really true bypass). Of course, a pedal like a Boss with a built in low quality buffer circuit imposes its own limitations on the rest of the chain and becomes the weak link.
If you're fussy about tone, you have to think of the pedalboard as a system, and all the stuff on the board as audio components. So using isolated power supplies (such as Voodoo Labs) to prevent noise caused by ground loops and other pedal interactions, is one step. I've found that using one type of good cable for consistency and for resistance to RFI and EMI is another step. Using high quality pedals, whether or not you believe in true bypass, is yet another step. Basically, noise, whether coming from ground loops, or electromagnetic interference, is the enemy of fidelity and detail, because even low levels of noise will mask detail. Not to mention that noise sounds annoying. A good power supply is an important step, or just use batteries.
Most tuners are buffered, and sound terrible, not because buffers are bad, but because the buffers in most pedals are junk. I usually run a tuner either into a true bypass loop or if a buffer has a tuner or aux output, I use that for the tuner.
Currently I'm running a Suhr buffer into four true bypass pedals and a true bypass box looper. So far it's got the best fidelity of several buffers I've tried in terms of keeping the subtle high end detail happening. I've had buffers that were too bright, and buffers that preserved the frequency balance but took some of the life and detail out of the signal.
I run one or two more digital pedals in the looper depending on needs. The main purpose of the looper is to keep the direct path from the guitar into the amp analog. The buffer also has a second output that I use for a tuner.
The Suhr buffer preserves the signal well enough from the pedal board that I can use a 25 foot cable from the pedalboard to the amp, plus the pedal interconnects. That means I have 30 feet of cables and plugs, plus pedals, following the buffer with no signal loss that I can detect. I've switched over to PRS/VanDamme cables for everything between the guitar and the amp. It's pretty neutral sounding, very flexible, is less susceptible to noise than my other good cables, etc., and it just works. Whether I can get the same signal integrity for this kind of length with other cables using the Suhr box is something I haven't tried.
In terms of less than great sound, but sound that is still acceptable, I've found that the buffer on the latest Boss tuner isn't all that bad, if you run it first in the signal chain. It's not as clear as the Suhr, and not as transparent, but for a Boss tuner it's their best yet.
The cables between pedals, guitar, and amp can also affect the tone. The pedals themselves can affect the tone, depending on whether they really are true bypass (there are a few types of bypass labeled true bypass that arguably are not really true bypass). Of course, a pedal like a Boss with a built in low quality buffer circuit imposes its own limitations on the rest of the chain and becomes the weak link.
If you're fussy about tone, you have to think of the pedalboard as a system, and all the stuff on the board as audio components. So using isolated power supplies (such as Voodoo Labs) to prevent noise caused by ground loops and other pedal interactions, is one step. I've found that using one type of good cable for consistency and for resistance to RFI and EMI is another step. Using high quality pedals, whether or not you believe in true bypass, is yet another step. Basically, noise, whether coming from ground loops, or electromagnetic interference, is the enemy of fidelity and detail, because even low levels of noise will mask detail. Not to mention that noise sounds annoying. A good power supply is an important step, or just use batteries.
Most tuners are buffered, and sound terrible, not because buffers are bad, but because the buffers in most pedals are junk. I usually run a tuner either into a true bypass loop or if a buffer has a tuner or aux output, I use that for the tuner.
Currently I'm running a Suhr buffer into four true bypass pedals and a true bypass box looper. So far it's got the best fidelity of several buffers I've tried in terms of keeping the subtle high end detail happening. I've had buffers that were too bright, and buffers that preserved the frequency balance but took some of the life and detail out of the signal.
I run one or two more digital pedals in the looper depending on needs. The main purpose of the looper is to keep the direct path from the guitar into the amp analog. The buffer also has a second output that I use for a tuner.
The Suhr buffer preserves the signal well enough from the pedal board that I can use a 25 foot cable from the pedalboard to the amp, plus the pedal interconnects. That means I have 30 feet of cables and plugs, plus pedals, following the buffer with no signal loss that I can detect. I've switched over to PRS/VanDamme cables for everything between the guitar and the amp. It's pretty neutral sounding, very flexible, is less susceptible to noise than my other good cables, etc., and it just works. Whether I can get the same signal integrity for this kind of length with other cables using the Suhr box is something I haven't tried.
In terms of less than great sound, but sound that is still acceptable, I've found that the buffer on the latest Boss tuner isn't all that bad, if you run it first in the signal chain. It's not as clear as the Suhr, and not as transparent, but for a Boss tuner it's their best yet.
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Where would I be best placing my buffer. These are the pedals I'm using. Joe Bonamassa sig crybaby, Voodoo labs micro vibe, korg pitchblack tuner, wampler euphoria, rockbox boiling point, tc electronics repeater, digitech reverb and tc electronics ditto. I am using quality 3 m cables from guitar to board and from board to amp. I am also using lava patch cables on my board.
Rider1260
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- Jun 9, 2013
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Loss of high end can happen pretty quickly depending on the pedal my present large board has 5 ODs ( most two channel ) and a Wha in front of the amp with no change in tone or level I can go to 8 if needed 
Since I build my pedals I get to control everything about them we make the circuit length as short as possible and by pass using relays to completely by pass all the OD circuit as far as pedal patch goes if you are handy any good Mic cable
( Belden etc ) use the two hots soldered together as the main and the shield as the chassis / ground lots of copper and a great shield I also use plant waves stuff easy to make and repair ( if needed ) fast
As far as where to put a buffer usually first or last works best , if you have a loop in your amp use it put all your time based effects there ODs - Wha in front of the amp
Happy Tone tweeting
Since I build my pedals I get to control everything about them we make the circuit length as short as possible and by pass using relays to completely by pass all the OD circuit as far as pedal patch goes if you are handy any good Mic cable
( Belden etc ) use the two hots soldered together as the main and the shield as the chassis / ground lots of copper and a great shield I also use plant waves stuff easy to make and repair ( if needed ) fast
As far as where to put a buffer usually first or last works best , if you have a loop in your amp use it put all your time based effects there ODs - Wha in front of the amp
Happy Tone tweeting
Brad737
This space for rent...
6
Disturbing Manor
New Member
Really, your tone can suck without any pedals at all.
Ba-dum-pum!
Ba-dum-pum!
You just gave me the laugh of the day. Thank you!
Disturbing Manor
New Member
No problem, it's on the house. I'll be here all week.
gball
New Member
That comment resembles me.
I can notice a difference in tone with only one or two pedals. Many times I just use my Timmy and wah out front, maybe delay in the loop, but anything more and it and the negative effect on the tone and dynamics starts to really bother me. If I am playing at full-bore band volume I only use the wah.
I had an elaborate pedalboard years ago when I was in a cover band, to give me everything I needed for the various songs/music we were playing but I kind of hated it. Made the sound too sterile and even with an EQ it was hard to get the dynamics back.
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