How is the S2 Custom 24 better than the SE?

Jokkebolla

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I'm contemplating replacing my 2002 Santana SE so looked into the current PRS line and saw the "new" S2 line which is supposed to sit between the SE and Core. That seemed perfect for me, and I almost decided to get an S2 Custom 24. But then I started to look at the specs a bit closer and I can't really see how the S2 is any better than the SE. I can find five differences:
  • Slightly different body shapes
  • maple vs mahogany neck
  • different neck profiles
  • locking tuners on the S2
  • S2 has maple cap and SE has maple cap with veneer on top
Body shape, neck material and neck profile is just a matter of preference. And as far as I know, a pretty maple top is no different from an ugly maple top with pretty veneer on top. So the only real difference is locking tuners. Now I'm sure no one would pay $700 extra to get locking tuners on their guitar so what am I missing? I understand that the pretty maple top will be more expensive than the ugly one, but does that really matter? Pretty and ugly wood sounds the same and if the veneer somehow ruins the guitar I doubt PRS would use it.

If I buy an SE instead of an S2 I can use the money saved to upgrade the tuners and get basically the same guitar with a different neck option. And then I can use the rest of the money I saved to upgrade the bridge and the nut. I can also replace the pickups and I would still have money left over.

I'm not really asking about the price difference, because I realize that the pretty maple top is more expensive and that american labour is more expensive than indonesian labour. But why would I pick an S2 over an SE?
 
I'm contemplating replacing my 2002 Santana SE so looked into the current PRS line and saw the "new" S2 line which is supposed to sit between the SE and Core. That seemed perfect for me, and I almost decided to get an S2 Custom 24. But then I started to look at the specs a bit closer and I can't really see how the S2 is any better than the SE. I can find five differences:
  • Slightly different body shapes
  • maple vs mahogany neck
  • different neck profiles
  • locking tuners on the S2
  • S2 has maple cap and SE has maple cap with veneer on top
Body shape, neck material and neck profile is just a matter of preference. And as far as I know, a pretty maple top is no different from an ugly maple top with pretty veneer on top. So the only real difference is locking tuners. Now I'm sure no one would pay $700 extra to get locking tuners on their guitar so what am I missing? I understand that the pretty maple top will be more expensive than the ugly one, but does that really matter? Pretty and ugly wood sounds the same and if the veneer somehow ruins the guitar I doubt PRS would use it.

If I buy an SE instead of an S2 I can use the money saved to upgrade the tuners and get basically the same guitar with a different neck option. And then I can use the rest of the money I saved to upgrade the bridge and the nut. I can also replace the pickups and I would still have money left over.

I'm not really asking about the price difference, because I realize that the pretty maple top is more expensive and that american labour is more expensive than indonesian labour. But why would I pick an S2 over an SE?

Better woods (not just pretty, fewer pieces and higher quality), better fretwire, better fretwork, better nut, the aforementioned better tuners.
 
Ewwww ....You are gonna wind up on the "PRS Bad List" askin' questions like that ! :)

I never looked at the S2 Line, until they introduced the McCarty series ...A Good move as it makes great guitars more affordable than the fine , but dearly priced Core models . As we know, there is no "SE McCarty" ... yet !

And maybe its a testament as to how good the SE line is, that one even has to ask this question.

My intro to PRS was via the SE line, and the great SE's I bought , got me to thinkin' (always a dangerous thing), Would a USA model be better?

Well, in my Mc Carty 594 Thinline, I do experience the advantages in a one piece body,(nicer woods) , What I'm going to call "rolled fret board edges" (compared to my SE's but not as much as a Core 519 I got to fondle)

And a scale length and neck profile (both preferable to me as a small hands guy) that are not available in the SE series. Not to mention the petite body in the Thinline (My Zebrawood veneered SE is a "load" "compared to her American S2 cousin ) :)

So maybe the Marketing Guys in PRS have to wrestle with the same question. How to make the S2 Custom 24 demonstrably better that her SE cousin ?

Maybe USA pickups ? Oh ... and provide lockers standard .. But I'm sure this is a S2 line "problem" ...:rolleyes:

That Higginbotham guy ! :D (betcha he's looking at Vietnam as the next SE home ) :cool:
 
I've owned both for a number of years. The S2's have distinctly better wood and fretwork. My S2's haven't needed anything to be gigged on. My SE Custom 24 is a great guitar, but has needed fretwork twice as the wood has shrunk. If I didn't have any core PRS, I could have been happy playing my S2's for the rest of my life. Screw the fancier woods discussion, pretty wood doesn't make a higher or lower quality instrument. As AAhz said, everything else is better.
 
I'm in the minority around here but agree. The S2 doesn't sway me at all. I'd rather have an SE and use the difference for better pickups or something. If I cared for the S2 satin that might be different but otherwise I'd rather go SE or save some more for core.

I hear this and that for people's arguments for S2, but I've said it before I always pick another guitar over S2.

Google for a video of the SE plant in Indonesia and then make up your mind. The SE woods go through the same process as Maryland.
 
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IMO, the S2 line is basically what an SE would be if made in the US. There are differences, primarily in consistent build quality, different body carve, better tuners...those come to mind. Beyond that, I can't say I thought any well setup S2 I've played is wildly better than a solid, well setup SE. I think the place where S2 does beat SE is, plain and simple, its not imported. Its not sailing across the Pacific during which time the neck can move, dry out, and possible fret sprout could occur. An S2 gets assembled in Maryland, and a short trip to a stateside dealer is it.

I still think on both the pickups and the nut material are the weakest elements. I find most SE pickups to be good, but not great. I could say the same for S2 pickups, good, not great. I don't like that bronze shaving nut material on either line. I might also add, I find S2's to be....kinda lacking in the looks department. There are many examples of SE guitars that look like they are worth way more than what they are, but the S2's....meh. I've seen a few gems, but not consistently. I don't care for the muted color palette of the S2 line either.

To kinda finish my little rant, I have not played a stock S2 that can outperform my Paul's Guitar SE. With the saved money, I was able to make all the upgrades I needed, and still be ahead.

BUT

S2's will have more consistent build quality and more attention to the finer details. Finding the right SE can be a bit of a hunt and you may try out many that you like but not love. I would never say not to buy an S2...in fact, look on the used market for S2's. You can often find some for the price of an SE, and so long as she's in solid condition, there's no reason to not pull the trigger. Or you can just be like most of us addicts and buy both. :p
 
So I guess "better wood" could be a thing. If that even makes sense - I'm no luthier! As for the imported part: I live in Europe, so both the SE and S2 are imports.

The thing is though: I want the S2 to be better. Because I already have an SE (though the quality might have improved since 2002) so buying another SE doesn't feel like an upgrade!
 
I can go either way on this one. Ultimately, I'd say it comes down to what your wallet will support.

I've got two (soon to be three) S2's and three Cores. I don't own any SE's and have limited experience with them. What I have noticed on the SE's that I've played when demoing a pedal or something like that is that some of them have a little bit of trouble in the tuning stability department, and their fretwork doesn't seem to be quite up to the level of the S2. Aside from that, they seem to be outstanding guitars.

I can honestly say that from a build quality and consistency standpoint, my two S2's (Custom 22 Semi Hollow and 594 McCarty Singlecut) stand up to my Core guitars (Custom 22, CE 22 Maple Top, and 35th Anniversary Custom 24). Now, I did change a the pickups on my Custom 22 Semi-Hollow to Bare Knuckle Abraxas pickups, mostly just because...I didn't have any real qualms with teh stock 85/15 S pickups, but I do like the Bare Knuckles better. The S2 594 had the tuners changed from the PRS Vintage McCarty pickups to the Phase 3 locking vintage tuners, not because I had tuning stability issues with the standard vintage tuners, but again, just because. I feel 100% confident I could have taken either of the S2's straight to a gig with zero problems after tuning them up, even before I changed anything out on them. Basically, I see the S2 as a great value for money American made guitar that's got that little bit of extra attention to detail in the fit and finish and quality control department to push them into the $1,500.00 price point.

The SE's I've played have also been outstanding and I have honestly been giving some serious thought to getting one for myself so that I'll have at least one fiddle from each of the PRS lines. I could easily be happy with an SE Custom 22 Semi-hollow with a good setup, and a set of Bare Knuckle Abraxas or Stormy Monday pickups in it, an upgraded nut, some locking tuners, and upgraded pots. In my experience, the four SE's I've played had some trouble staying in tune, but that could just as easily be a product of having new strings that aren't totally stretched out as it is a product of the tuners slipping. That said, I'd still opt for locking tuners and a good setup with my preferred .10-.52 strings. At that point I'd be pretty confident that I could gig the SE with no problem and I'd be well under the budget of an S2.

I think of the SE, S2, Core, and Private Stock lines as different trim levels of a car. Get what has the features you want and that you can afford.
 
OK... I have it all figured out for you. Buy an S2 McCarty 594. Now, my own bias is , that the 58/15S (imported) pickups probably work best in the Thinline (which I own and love) Think Gibson SG but cooler !

The DC is probably more along the lines of what you initially asked about, and the SC... is probably more
Les Paul; ish

ONE MAJOR FLY IN THE OINTMENT ? Is that if you can not find one in stock, you will have several months to wait for one. Mine took 6 months, and from what I hear, the wait has just gotten worse.

If you are in the UK... Buy Andertons ! I like their You Tube stuff, and they absolutely sold me on the Fender Mustang Micro !

Good Luck and happy hunting ! ;)
 
OK ! To "follow up " on my own pesky advise, I checked Andertons stock. and they have a coupla DC' s (Gray & Red) with SC's and Thinlines coming in in early May ... So Give Captain Lee a Holler ! :)
 
Maybe I need to take a closer look at the McCarty. I've just glossed over it as a Gibson copy and I've never bonded with any Gibson's I've played.

Unfortunately, I'm in Norway so no Anderson's. I've got two local dealers, none of which have any S2s on stock.
 
Maybe I need to take a closer look at the McCarty. I've just glossed over it as a Gibson copy and I've never bonded with any Gibson's I've played.

Oh no, no...the McCarty is a very different beast, be it in its S2 or Core form. Think of it as taking the Gibson design and thoughtfully optimizing it. The only thing we're missing is a McCarty SE....though, I might have a plan for that
 
Maybe I need to take a closer look at the McCarty. I've just glossed over it as a Gibson copy and I've never bonded with any Gibson's I've played.

Unfortunately, I'm in Norway so no Anderson's. I've got two local dealers, none of which have any S2s on stock.

If you are looking for a "step up" from the SE line, in a affordable American guitar, the S2 McCarty's are the way to go. The 58/15s in them do not cry out for replacement ... (although there is my Thinline bias again) .. The vintage tuners are more stable than my SE lockers. Look at the recently released Joe Walsh.... a $6,500 guitar with the same tuners (and maybe even the same bridge)

Andertons ships internationally ... and there is Thomann ... never used them , but they are out there globally ...
 
It's only better if it feels better in your hands. Don't forget this. Also consider the Floyd model of the Custom - the locking nut that comes on the guitar beats the pants off the SE nut.
 
The S2 McCarty could easily sway me from thinking of an SE as well. The S2 Custom 24 not so much.
 
I really love my S2 594.

https://imgur.com/gallery/sNm6kjl

I swapped out the tuners for the Phase III Vintage locking variety, replaced the black toggle switch cap for a cream one, replaced the black pickup mounting rings for gold, swapped the nickel strap buttons for gold, and switched the nickel pole screws for gold for a nice hybrid hardware look. I really love the way the S2 594 plays and sounds.
 
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