How do you practice?

[lynnj163]

Just wondering how you guys practice. I've got myself into a bad spot to where I am pretty good at playing guitar but not so much understanding the guitar. I play at my church and can play about any song that they want to learn but as far as understanding the music side of it, I'm lost. Even though I understand that certain chords work for certain keys and how to play in certain keys. Its all pretty much from memory and experience and I don't understand why those chords would be in that key. I know when I sit down to play that I should put some effort into learning these things but I usually just end up throwing on a backing track or noodling around for a while. It seems like any music theory lesson is always really slow quarter note patterns and I end up getting bored and have trouble staying focused enough to learn.

Is there any way to learn these things without the boring part? LOL. I just really want to be a musician more than just a guitar player and I'm not sure the best route to take. I wish I would have spend the time to learn this as I was learning to play but here we are. I was more interested in playing that Metallica song by tab than learning to really play the guitar.

So I guess what I'm wondering is what is your routine, or what was your routine to get you where you are? Any help would be appreciated!!!

 

[11top]

I try to start with a scale that I'm struggling with, but.........................always end up playing Smoke on the Water or Sweet Emotion.



Jeff, weren't you in ELO?

 

[veinbuster]

I'm not sure if I can help, but I would like to start by saying that there is so much more to music theory than a sequence of notes. That is really just a scale. Then there are sets of notes - call them chords, and sequences of chords. But beyond the notes is the rhythm, which is what I find most interesting about music.

Now about practice. I deliberately do different things when I practice. I play classical to practice reading and to remind myself about the discipline of structured music. I think much of my understanding of where notes are on the guitar comes from this. I also find it helps me appreciate the flow from one chord to another. Not for everybody though.

I also practice chord progressions. Sometimes from a formal book like Ted Greene (who is punishing) and sometimes just from a song book. I've learned a lot about chord sequences from the Beatles.

Sometimes I'll play guitar biased songs that I like. I rarely play them long enough to learn them, because playing other people's music doesn't excite me that much. I play them to try and get a feel for the style. That becomes part of what I can add to something I'm playing for myself.

Then I'll just play. I might pick a scale I want to make sound interesting, or a rhythm I want to work with, or a chord progression.

 

[AP515]

Don't try to eat the elephant all at once. learn only the part that you have a question about at that time. The three chords are called the 1, 4, and 5 for a reason. Find out that reason. What is the relative minor? Just find that one out. Then eventually they will start to make sense as a system.

 

[lynnj163]

I try to start with a scale that I'm struggling with, but.........................always end up playing Smoke on the Water or Sweet Emotion.



Jeff, weren't you in ELO?

Haha! That's my problem. Why learn something new when I can just bust out this sweet riff I already know another 5 times.

On a side note, I wish I was at least related to the Jeff from ELO haha, I might not be in this predicament.

I'm not sure if I can help, but I would like to start by saying that there is so much more to music theory than a sequence of notes. That is really just a scale. Then there are sets of notes - call them chords, and sequences of chords. But beyond the notes is the rhythm, which is what I find most interesting about music.

Now about practice. I deliberately do different things when I practice. I play classical to practice reading and to remind myself about the discipline of structured music. I think much of my understanding of where notes are on the guitar comes from this. I also find it helps me appreciate the flow from one chord to another. Not for everybody though.

I also practice chord progressions. Sometimes from a formal book like Ted Greene (who is punishing) and sometimes just from a song book. I've learned a lot about chord sequences from the Beatles.

Sometimes I'll play guitar biased songs that I like. I rarely play them long enough to learn them, because playing other people's music doesn't excite me that much. I play them to try and get a feel for the style. That becomes part of what I can add to something I'm playing for myself.

Then I'll just play. I might pick a scale I want to make sound interesting, or a rhythm I want to work with, or a chord progression.

Awesome, thanks for your time. I'm very interested in these techniques and will definitely incorporate the ideas into my practice time. I don't really know a lot of people that play, or at least play better than the level I consider myself to be. So as corny as it sounds probably, I look up to and respect what you guys can offer. Even if it is over an internet forum and I don't know you guys personally.

 

[Huggy Love]

The amount or method you practice has less to do with musical understanding and awareness than what music you take on and learn.
For example, you can practice scale and chord exercises till the cows come home but that won't teach you much about composition, theory, and how to apply it. The *ONLY* things that will improve your musical awareness are learning the nuts & bolts of theory and learning as much music as you can, especially other music styles. For me, teaching myself to play jazz, especially soloing over chord changes, made almost all other forms of music easy. I don't even read music, never took lessons, play by ear, but I can safely say that after learning Jobim songs and emulating Miles Davis phrasings on the guitar, everything else (rock, blues,etc) became less challenging.

Again, playing by ear I have the theory, I just don't know the proper terminology to name what I've been doing for years, if you do some reading you'll probably be better than I. Bottom line, feed your brain with as much music as you can and/or take some theory lessons that you get bored with, but those are the paths to becoming a complete guitarist and musician.

 

[coyote]

A phenomenal starting point for learning right now is mattwarnockguitar.com. It takes you from basic I IV V7 blues out to jazz substitutions. If you wor that site in conjunction with a good jazz theory book, you'll get a good understanding of things.... instead of doing chords from memory, you'll be able to correctly anticipate them even in material you've never played before.

If you find that stuff boring,may I suggest you take up alligator wrestling as a hobby instead?

 

[Brad737]

I really don't practice, which is why I'm pretty much still a hack after playing for 30 years. I haven't been in a band since college. Very occasionally, I'll attend an open blues jam. But what I do when I have some free time is go downstairs, plug in, and jam along to either some backing tracks, or some old Bluesbreakers, Van Halen, Zeppelin, Rush, ZZ TOP, or one of the 3 Kings. It sure puts a smile on my face.

 

[lynnj163]

A phenomenal starting point for learning right now is mattwarnockguitar.com. It takes you from basic I IV V7 blues out to jazz substitutions. If you wor that site in conjunction with a good jazz theory book, you'll get a good understanding of things.... instead of doing chords from memory, you'll be able to correctly anticipate them even in material you've never played before.

If you find that stuff boring,may I suggest you take up alligator wrestling as a hobby instead?

Thanks man I'll take a look at both the website and possibly wrestling a gator.

 

[aristotle]

For me, the key is playing with other musicians. Playing live, with musicians who actually call you out is a great learning experience. I recently sat in with some musicians who were "professional" in comparison with me. My regular band is fun, and low-key... But these guys were great. Take something like "Use Me". Super simple to play, but when you're with people who know what they are doing...you get the stink-eye when you aren't exactly on-time. And god forbid you're playing James Brown and you don't stick the down beat.....

 

[Mixstar]

If you're really serious about becoming a musician as opposed to 'just a guitar player' I'd suggest you have some real music lessons. You should learn all the scales (piano and guitar IMHO) and how to (sight) read score as well as tab, this can take years and years, it's not an easy journey. Most of the stuff you mention is fundamental to music such as keys etc. and there is a ton of information on the t'interweb. Personally I did the above for two years and it nearly drove me round the bend. I prefer finding stuff out for myself but it stood me in good stead.

Warning: A friend who I attended music school with me enjoyed it so much he left the guitar behind and became a keyboard player full time so you may end up being something you never expected

 

[lynnj163]

Thanks again for the info. I'd love to be able to fully understand music one day but with 2 small kids running around, work and other extra curricular activities working against me, it will be tough. I'm gonna try to learn one thing at a time and maybe by the time I'm 50 I'll be able to understand this craziness. As long as I could get the basics down, I think I would be alot happier in the long run.

 

[jay]

For me, studying theory is possible only because I love it. If I found it boring, I would give up, but that's just me.

Then ... are you sure you think it's boring? Music theory is a mixture of mathematics and art, it has 1000 rules but there are no rules and the more you study, the more you see how much more you will need to, and that's amazing (quite discouraging at times, but it's like seeing that your favourite ice cream is replicating itself in the fridge the more you eat it, and finding out it has no calories!).

Back to practical advice: I would get lessons but (wait for the big secret to come ...): you should find a good teacher, someone who can go at your pace and who can understand your need. Online stuff and books are great but real people are something else.
And then I would reserve time to study far away from the guitar. I do it at work, during lunch break.
I either:
- study theory as it is, usually starting from something my teacher told me and I did not understand and googleing it. Then I take notes of that I learned in a personal "notes" document. I was also thinking of recording myself reading the notes and playing them back while I am in the car, just to memorize. What notes are on a minor harmonic scale? What scales could I use over a dominant chord? What alterations go with a minor 7th chord? ...
- try to memorize notes of every scale, to be lightning fast when you need them (well, that's the aim ...): which note is the 3rd of Bb? And the flat 5th of E? ...
- take the music sheet of the song I am learning and I try to analyze it. What scale can I play here (write it down)? With which pattern on the fretboard (write it down)? How can I voice these chords (write them down)? Which notes can I use for solos that would underline the nature of the chord (write them down), ...? It works best with jazz I think, but that helps with any music. It's weird because you can't hear the result immediately, and that might be controversial, because theory by itself is useless if not applied, but in this way you will have a lot of material for when you have the guitar and your brain is ready, so you will not get bored nor you will distract.
- take scale patterns on the fretboard and try to find "rules" in them (I know, this is not theory, but it's anyway something I like to study at my desk before going to the guitar). I absolutely suck at memorizing all the patterns, therefore I try to re-structure them at my "necessity". Examples: I have "discovered" by myself that I can derive any major scale from pentatonic by applying always 2 simple geometric rules and now I can play any major scale anywhere (maybe not always, but anyway a lot quicker than before) or that the five melodic minor patterns that my teacher gave can be re-worked in only one pattern to be shifted up and down, ... (these are probably very basic stuff that helps just me, but yet no one ever told me in 15 years and they are helping a lot)

 

[lynnj163]

I wouldn't say that music theory in itself is boring just most of the videos or tutorials you find online are. Especially the ones for guitar because they are generally aimed at the new player and it is hard to follow without being bored to death. Thanks for the info. Funny thing about the notes document is that I have been making notes of the info everyone has shared here so far so that I can incorporate some ideas into my practice.

 

[pac90]

I faffed around with quite a few different books, but they tend to became too 'dry' like you describe, but these 2 are very good, and likely suited right to your practical experience level as a player

Fretboard theory, by Densi Serna, volumes 1 and 2 (available on amazon kindle too)

He has a website too for a look: http://www.guitar-music-theory.com/ but I just have the books

 

[SteelHorse]

I had a friend who told me to go find a good instructor. I didn't listen. Other friends told me to skip instructor and use YouTube. So I was trying the youtube thing and bought some books and DVD's. Thought I was sounding pretty good. My friend past away in December and I realized maybe he is right and it would really advance my learning as time is short. Now that I started the lessons I have even had my wife go out of her way to compliment my improvements. The instructor added the focus I could never really do on my own.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

I walk in, pick up a guitar, turn on the amp. I play "Far Beyond The Sun," " Flight Over Rio" and "Devil Take The Hindmost" to warm up and get my fingers loose. Once I'm loose, I turn on the fuzz, vibe, and delay, and see how long I can make notes sustain. After a couple minutes, my wife comes in and says "turn that crap off!"

End of session.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Ok, obviously that was a joke. My apologies to Misters Malmsteen, DiMeola and Holdsworth.

Honestly, when I have to perform, my practice usually revolves around turning on a track and practicing my part over it. Since that usually gets boring quickly (because at church I'm playing mostly really easy stuff), I start changing my tones and effects to make it something totally not like what I will sound like when I perform. Honestly, with me, it's more about knowing the song. If I know the song I don't even practice it but a few times. Most of my "practicing" when I'm going to perform, is just to learn the song. Because I play by ear, knowing the song is more important than working out exactly what I'll play. I can read music but rarely do it. I think I've only taken music on stage once with me in the last year. About 20 times I played 2-3 songs. No big deal, except that I'm almost always playing something I didn't "know" more than a few weeks before performance. I perform mainly at a large church. Since I'm not playing one of the tons of Rush, Van Halen, Ozzie, Led Zeppelin, Hendrix, Trower, etc. songs that I've played for years, I'm always performing something that is new to me. Since I play lead (but also rhythm between solos) it's more important for me to just "know' the song. Once I do, i just play. I always have some specific parts that I work out only because maybe I'm playing a harmony part to the vocalist or something, but my solos are not pre-planned.

When I am not specifically working on a song that I have to perform, I usually just mess around with parts of whatever songs I'm in the mood to play for the first 15 minutes or so. Once I'm good and loose, I usually start playing more riffs and runs and honestly, what I play depends on what guitar and amp I'm playing and what pedals are plugged in. Sometimes I'm just in the mood to play something specific, and I do. But, just as often I jump from Zeppelin to Trower or Hendrix to Megadeth or Boston to Van Halen as the mood hits me.

I don't know any real theory. When I played piano I was very young and my playing advanced past the age where they started teaching more theory, but I never got to that. I took up guitar and have never learned any more theory. So I can read music, but I choose to play by ear. So rather than theory, I play what I know sounds the way i want it to sound. I've tried to play enough styles of players over the years (and certainly not all!) that I am versed enough to play what I want. At my age, I have no desire to learn theory nor do I feel it would make much difference in my playing. I play with two guys who know all kinds of theory and are just average "solid" players. I was playing with them two weeks ago and one said something like "oh, that was cool the way you played that (and started with theory...) and I just said "thanks." LOL Didn't even know what he meant, I just knew I had a cool idea there and I guess he liked it. HE knew exactly what I did in theory terms, I didn't have a clue, just knew it sounded cool.

 

[lynnj163]

Appreciate the insight. I'm the same in some ways. I'm really enjoying the insight into how everyone else does things and the little tips I'm picking up here and there.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Every hear the interview with SRV (it's a bonus track on one of my live CDs I have of his) where he says that at one point he decided he needed to learn theory in order to advance? He said the more theory he learned, the more it got in the way of his playing so he quit and tried to forget everything he'd learned. LOL Now, SRV is not what I'd call a complicated player, he's an emotion player. But part of what he said there really hit me enough to try to find out more and more about what other big name players thought on this subject.

It seems some guys need to learn more and they actually get better the more theory they learn, because the understanding opens up things for them. Where others, (and I am in this camp) play things because they already know they sound great, cool, right for that part, whatever, and they don't know the theory behind it, but... they don't need too, because they already "heard" that as what they wanted to play and didn't need to read it in a book in order to discover that note, notes or part. So when people talk "that minor 5th you played over that 2nd chord" or "that diminished minor subcutaneous scale" I just smile and say "glad you enjoyed it."

My humble opinion is, neither is right or wrong, but you have to discover what works for you and certainly some level of mix between the two is often a good thing. Sometimes it's like watching a new guy play, or a new learning video... you learn that new trick or lick and it lets you get to the next level.