How do you make a guitar that sustains on every note?

[FragileThunder]

And hardness isn't everything either.

The older I get, the more true this becomes.




I just mean I take more satisfaction in completing simple tasks. Perverts.

 

[Birdsofprey]

For me when I pick up an electric guitar I absolutely do not need to plug it in (electrically) to know it’s the right guitar.

 

[Lewguitar]

For me when I pick up an electric guitar I absolutely do not need to plug it in (electrically) to know it’s the right guitar.

Me too. I bought my ES-335 in a McDonalds parking lot.

I played it for a few minutes and just knew.

Didn't plug it in until I got home.

The guy I bought it from lived 300 miles away from me so we met half way.

He was a friend of my brother's so I knew he was cool.

He's called since then and asked to buy it back.

No way!

 

[Mozzi]

But a lot of knowledge based on actual experience can be helpful. I wish someone like PRS himself would chime in.

The trouble with that is people would still claim its 'snake oil', that they are only saying it to sell more etc. Musicians don't seem to trust 'Luthiers' and have their 'own' beliefs. Musicians don't make instruments and their experience is often only related to the things they can change - like Pups, Amps etc.

They don't spend time building the exact same Instruments with 'different' woods, different moisture content etc and see what effects that has on the instruments 'tone' and/or 'sustain'. At most, they'll swap Pups, tuners, electronics,, bridge, nut and if that doesn't 'work', they'll trade the instrument not even considering the 'woods'. Even those with 'Bolt-on' necks don't consider the neck makes any 'noticeable' difference - yet you put a solid Rosewood neck carved exactly the same as a solid maple neck, same tuners, nut, strings, fret wire, exactly the same set-up etc on a 'Strat/Tele' and it changes the 'tone' - nothing else has changed. Yet people will still say that woods have NO impact.

I think it comes down to the fact that Musicians can 'easily' change certain things - like Pups/Amps and so they are the 'first' and often only things to 'care' about in terms of 'Tone'. If the Luthier has done 'their' job, the Core/spine of the instrument, the 'wood', would of been cured properly and selected for its properties (inc Tone) to provide the best base for a Guitar. The hardware is then 'preference' of the Musician and that's what they can change easily so its the 'most' important part to them. That's why you get the Luthiers all talking about the 'build', the materials etc as that's most important to them and their instruments but a musician cares more about the Pups as that is their 'tone' and often the first change they make.

The fact is that if a Musician buys a Guitar that they don't like the tone, they may swap Pups to try and make it sound like they want or will trade it in. They don't ever consider the the 'core/spine' as being an issue because its not something they can change. Its just a 'bad' guitar or a 'bad' example of that model so need to find one that 'works' for them. They have a 'different' perspective on what makes a great guitar because they are coming at it from a very different aspect - a 'completed' instrument and/or what they can easily tweak/adjust to suit them. A Luthier is starting from scratch and thinking of the Materials and how they 'combine' to create a 'musical instrument' that's reliable, stable, resonant etc before any 'hardware' goes on it...

 

[Mozzi]

For me when I pick up an electric guitar I absolutely do not need to plug it in (electrically) to know it’s the right guitar.

Couldn't agree more - Playing acoustically is a great way to assess an instrument, how it feels to play, how it 'rings' etc. Pups are 'preference' and relatively easy to change, but you cannot 'easily' change the 'core/spine' of the instrument and trying it acoustically gives you a LOT of information about an Electric guitar and its Spine.

If an Electric guitar does not pass my Acoustic appraisal, I put it straight back on the wall and keep looking. Only if it passes my appraisal will I consider asking to try it plugged in. Although I don't 'need' to plug it in to know its going to work for me, I tend to want to as I'd rather know if the Pups and electronics are all working as expected before I buy and that I won't need to fix/replace parts. I have found that guitars I liked acoustically are the ones I liked best when played through an Amp and ones I didn't like, certainly didn't change my mind after plugging them in so now I don't bother 'plugging in' unless it works acoustically for me...

I wouldn't buy any Electric that doesn't pass my Acoustic appraisal and the acoustic appraisal can be enough to know its the 'right' guitar for me but for additional peace of mind, I do tend to want to try it plugged in before I purchase.

I know it's perhaps superficial, but a Guitar first has to catch my eye in a Positive way to make me want to check it out first and foremost. Anything I don't find appealing from an aesthetic perspective doesn't matter how 'great' it could be, I don't find it appealing to pick up or want to play it. So a guitar first has to look 'good' to make me want to try it in the first place...

The next stage is that Acoustic appraisal, see how it feels in the hands, how it sounds/rings acoustically, how it 'plays'. I could stop here and decide whether to buy or not, but only if it passes this will I ever ask to try it plugged in - which generally is just a check to see if everything is working properly as expected - the switches, pots, pups etc but I already know whether I would buy or not - the plugged in test is more confirmation I'm making the 'right' choice and not need to mod/tweak/fix something with the 'electronics'.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

For me when I pick up an electric guitar I absolutely do not need to plug it in (electrically) to know it’s the right guitar.

For me, that's a big "yes, and no." I have played a guitar that felt absolutely fantastic. Feel, fit, finish, playability, all GREAT. Body was alive, even sustain all over the neck, etc. I fell in love with it and was ready to buy it before plugging it in. Plugged it in and it was completely disappointing. Dull, boring tone, I started turning knobs on the amp and couldn't make it sound better than average. This is an oft discussed guitar here...

Contrast that with my NF3. Everything about that guitar is great unplugged. But it's not exceptionally alive, or whatever. It plays great, feels great, above average sustain, the feel is incredible... but then you plug it in and realize you hadn't scratched the surface of how great it can be until you turn that amp on. KILLER tones, and all kinds of them. Great at every gain range, etc., etc.

Same with my 25th Anniversary C22 Semi Hollow LTD. Everything about it is great unplugged. That guitar IS alive and resonant and all that. Super impressive unplugged. But plug it in, and a whole world of tones is opened up for you.

You'd never know how great either of those is without plugging them in, even though they are impressive unplugged.

I also have one guitar that is super solid, great neck, etc. but is not "great" in any of these categories, as far as "alive" or resonant body etc., but plug it in and it is a great playing, great sounding guitar all across the board. (Carvin Bolt T)

 

[Lewguitar]

The trouble with that is people would still claim its 'snake oil', that they are only saying it to sell more etc. Musicians don't seem to trust 'Luthiers' and have their 'own' beliefs. Musicians don't make instruments and their experience is often only related to the things they can change - like Pups, Amps etc.

They don't spend time building the exact same Instruments with 'different' woods, different moisture content etc and see what effects that has on the instruments 'tone' and/or 'sustain'. At most, they'll swap Pups, tuners, electronics,, bridge, nut and if that doesn't 'work', they'll trade the instrument not even considering the 'woods'. Even those with 'Bolt-on' necks don't consider the neck makes any 'noticeable' difference - yet you put a solid Rosewood neck carved exactly the same as a solid maple neck, same tuners, nut, strings, fret wire, exactly the same set-up etc on a 'Strat/Tele' and it changes the 'tone' - nothing else has changed. Yet people will still say that woods have NO impact.

I think it comes down to the fact that Musicians can 'easily' change certain things - like Pups/Amps and so they are the 'first' and often only things to 'care' about in terms of 'Tone'. If the Luthier has done 'their' job, the Core/spine of the instrument, the 'wood', would of been cured properly and selected for its properties (inc Tone) to provide the best base for a Guitar. The hardware is then 'preference' of the Musician and that's what they can change easily so its the 'most' important part to them. That's why you get the Luthiers all talking about the 'build', the materials etc as that's most important to them and their instruments but a musician cares more about the Pups as that is their 'tone' and often the first change they make.

The fact is that if a Musician buys a Guitar that they don't like the tone, they may swap Pups to try and make it sound like they want or will trade it in. They don't ever consider the the 'core/spine' as being an issue because its not something they can change. Its just a 'bad' guitar or a 'bad' example of that model so need to find one that 'works' for them. They have a 'different' perspective on what makes a great guitar because they are coming at it from a very different aspect - a 'completed' instrument and/or what they can easily tweak/adjust to suit them. A Luthier is starting from scratch and thinking of the Materials and how they 'combine' to create a 'musical instrument' that's reliable, stable, resonant etc before any 'hardware' goes on it...

When I bought my Silver Sky I spent more time listening to it unplugged than I did plugged in.

I listened to how loud it resonated, how long it sustained a note, how chords rang, how it vibrated against my body, etc.

I had four to choose from and I chose the one with the acoustic tone that I liked best.

Of course I eventually plugged them all in. And the one with the acoustic tone I liked best was also the one with the electric tone I liked best.

So I bought it.

There's a whole cult of "wood doesn't matter, it's all in the pickups" trolls who will eat you alive on certain guitar forums and insist they hear no difference in sound when certain woods are used in a guitar. That using alder vs. ash makes no difference in predicting how a guitar might sound, nor does using maple vs. rosewood for a fingerboard.

I don't know what to tell people like that. I don't know if they're just unexperienced, tone deaf, untalented guitar players or what the deal is with that view.

I think they just read it somewhere or saw a video of a strat made of cardboard, and I feel like I'm dealing with angry 14 year olds when they go on the attack.

One thing they seem to have in common though is a disdain for PRS and PRS guitars.

And don't dare mention the Silver Sky on a Strat forum! They'll try to burn you at the stake.

 

[Alnus Rubra]

And don't dare mention the Silver Sky on a Strat forum! They'll try to burn you at the stake.

“But how do we know he is a witch?”

“He made a copy of a Strat! It got better”

 

[Lewguitar]

“But how do we know he is a witch?”

“He made a copy of a Strat! It got better”

They don't want to hear that. But I think in many ways the Silver Sky is better. I guess Paul would say "different". And it is.

 

[Greywolf]

One of my missions when I started in Lutherie 40 years ago was to prove/disprove at least to myself what truely mattered in tone and sustain.
I've built with dozens of wood and pickup combinations as well as neck types and various amounts of air from mildly chambered to hollowbody .

Does a 12+ lb mahogany /maple solid body sustain longer than a carved hollowbody with the same woods and pickups ...etc ...ad nauseum ... well not quite .. ever. We all strive to make instruments with a full dynamic range , and if quality woods and craftsmanship are present , the result is thankfully an instrument that will naturally vibrate for a long time , pickups and amplification can enhance the faintest signal .. but one needs to be present.. that is down to the craftsman at the bench and on the instrument .