How do you make a guitar that sustains on every note?

[Lewguitar]

In this video Paul talks about meeting Carlos Santana and building Carlos a "magic guitar" that sustains on every note. How did he do that? What woods would he use? Would he tap test every piece of wood used in that guitar and look for certain qualities, and reject 99% of the wood and only use certain pieces? Can it still be done?

 

[Domingo Lantigua]

Every guitar note sustains. I believe he's talking about the looooooooooong sustain which is caused by controlled feedback. Give "Europa" a listen

 

[Lewguitar]

Every guitar note sustains. I believe he's talking about the looooooooooong sustain which is caused by controlled feedback. Give "Europa" a listen

I'm sure he is. But how do you build a guitar that does that?

Some guitars do and some guitars don't.

What did Paul do to intentionally build Carlos a guitar that fed back and sustained on every note?

 

[opnoob]

My opinion on what influences sustain from most important to least:

1. String gauge, tension and materials
2. Scale length
3. Nut, fret and bridge geometry and materials
...
999. Type of wood used

 

[Mozzi]

I'm sure he is. But how do you build a guitar that does that?

Some guitars do and some guitars don't.

What did Paul do to intentionally build Carlos a guitar that fed back and sustained on every note?

A guitar is all about the sum of its 'parts' - whether Acoustic or Electric. If 'everything' is perfect, then your guitar will Sustain on every note because the 'energy' you put in is not being 'lost'.

Species of woods is not as important as the 'treatment' of those woods, making sure they don't have too much moisture so will resonate better and longer, including the sap crystallising too - so it starts with ensuring that you are using the best materials. People may laugh at Paul 'tapping' neck blanks and listening to them 'ring' - but that is an example of transfer of energy from being tapped to vibrate and ring out - not 'lost' or dampened by too much moisture in it.

Everything matters because anything can 'sap' some of that energy you are putting in, dampen it resonating as long and so it doesn't sustain as long as other instruments. The best sustaining guitars are those that lose less energy in their 'system'.

 

[opnoob]

A guitar is all about the sum of its 'parts' - whether Acoustic or Electric. If 'everything' is perfect, then your guitar will Sustain on every note because the 'energy' you put in is not being 'lost'.

Species of woods is not as important as the 'treatment' of those woods, making sure they don't have too much moisture so will resonate better and longer, including the sap crystallising too - so it starts with ensuring that you are using the best materials. People may laugh at Paul 'tapping' neck blanks and listening to them 'ring' - but that is an example of transfer of energy from being tapped to vibrate and ring out - not 'lost' or dampened by too much moisture in it.

Everything matters because anything can 'sap' some of that energy you are putting in, dampen it resonating as long and so it doesn't sustain as long as other instruments. The best sustaining guitars are those that lose less energy in their 'system'.

Sorry but theres too much nonsense in this post. If you study the physical phenomenon of "resonance" you understand that the snake oil thats trying to be sold here is that somehow the resonant frequency of a particular wood can match the resonance frequency of a guitar string (and in most cases 6 different guitar strings at 22-24 different fret positions). The problem is the while the resonant frequency of the wood remains constant, each string (and each string played on each individual fret) will have its own unique resonant frequency, which means that even if you achieve "in-time" resonant frequency ie. pushing someone on a swing at just the right point to maximize (or at the least, increase) amplitude or getting that perfect double-bounce on a trampoline, it would mean that it would work on that particular string's resonant frequency only. And as mentioned earlier, because the wood's resonant frequency is more-or-less constant, it would mean that an in-time RF on one string (or one note) could mean an off-time resonant frequency on another string/note. Thus, if wood and its resonant frequency really had a meaningful impact on sustain, it would be an absolute headache. Other factors such as string length (scale length) or length of the string when played on a certain fret for instance has a much greater impact on sustain. (Its why its hard to get a note to ring out on the 22nd fret as opposed to an open string). It would take a technological revelation in wood for it to be able to modify its resonant frequency to match the note being played so that all notes have increased sustain. Woods having an impact on "tone" is a much more nuanced debate but the argument for longer sustain is one that's cut and dry mythbusted for me.

 

[Greywolf]

Now celebrating my 40th year in Lutherie , The recipe isn't that complex : Attention to detail, use good wood and have a great amp .

 

[jak3af3r]

Now celebrating my 40th year in Lutherie , The recipe isn't that complex : Attention to detail, use good wood and have a great amp .

There we go!

The amp and surrounding environment makes a HUGE difference. Carlos plays loud and, at least the time I saw him, had his boogie on top of a stand or road case. Then he could just walk to different spots on the stage and get different levels of feedback when he needed it.

 

[Lewguitar]

Violin makers and guitar makers do tap on pieces of wood though when choosing pieces for a guitar or an instrument.

Isn't that something all builders of one of a kind instruments do?

Aren't they looking for pieces that ring and resonate, and have a tone that pleases the builder?

 

[Lewguitar]

There we go!

The amp and surrounding environment makes a HUGE difference. Carlos plays loud and, at least the time I saw him, had his boogie on top of a stand or road case. Then he could just walk to different spots on the stage and get different levels of feedback when he needed it.

Paul said that the first time he met Carlos, Carlos was warming up for a show and "playing his a$$ off...through a little Pignose amp...and every note was feeding back". Endless sustain is the impression I got from hearing this.

Paul wanted to show Carlos a guitar he'd built, and apparently Carlos was a hard sell and difficult at first to satisfy.

Here's the video:

 

[DISTORT6]

Adam Jones of Tool once asked Robert Fripp how he achieves the amount of sustain he gets without using any effects pedals or a E-bow.
His answer - attitude.
That never made much sense to me until I tried it. I was recording some tracks at my friends studio with my amp in one of the iso-booths. I use a Boss NS-2 Noise Suppressor set full-on at all times to keep my knuckle dragging caveman riffs super tight. So no interaction between the pickups and my amp. Complete separation.
On the tracks we recorded that rang out at the end, I hit the last note and just held it with a very light vibrato and a medium / tight grip - BINGO! Out of all of the tracks, the last thing that you heard was my guitar sound probably a good 15-20 seconds after everything else stopped.
When we went into the control room to listen back, Max, the owner/operator of the studio said he’s never heard anything like that with the setup we were using. He asked me how I did what I did - I just smiled and said “Attitude”.
And it worked with my Singlecuts, Hollowbody Spruce, and Custom22. The amps were my Soldano SLO-100 and Fryette Sig:X.
Cool story, bro!

 

[aphantomvaper]

Special capacitor!

Attitude is the correct answer, and a resonant guitar.

 

[Lewguitar]

What I was wondering is what Paul did to create the "magic guitar" he describes in the video.

When I think of sustain I think of Carlos, BB King, Peter Green, Clapton in the 1960's...

But in terms of playing technique, it's an intuitive thing for me where both hands work together. The picking hand gets the string moving and the fretting hand is on the strings at just the right time and in just the right way to use vibrato and coax the string into sustaining.

It's been helpful for me to practice electric style playing on my acoustic guitar.

Here's some great sustain from peter Green:

 

[opnoob]

Violin makers and guitar makers do tap on pieces of wood though when choosing pieces for a guitar or an instrument.

Isn't that something all builders of one of a kind instruments do?

Aren't they looking for pieces that ring and resonate, and have a tone that pleases the builder?

Because those are acoustic instruments that rely on resonant sound waves. Even still, it would be more about the tone than the sustain.

 

[Lewguitar]

Because those are acoustic instruments that rely on resonant sound waves. Even still, it would be more about the tone than the sustain.

I think of the electric guitar, even if it's a solid body, as being an acoustic instrument too.

When I bought my Silver Sky I tried out four that were in the store and spent most of my time playing them unplugged.

They were all very consistent, but one rang a little longer, resonated a little deeper and vibrated a little more against my body and just inspired me a little more, and that's the one I bought.

 

[Greywolf]

One thing to keep in mind with Carlos , no matter what amp he uses , he keeps it dimed and uses the volume control on the guitar to control things .. per his rig video . I can tell you a Boogie dimed is an easy recipe for endless sustain , let alone his Dumble.

 

[Lewguitar]

One thing to keep in mind with Carlos , no matter what amp he uses , he keeps it dimed and uses the volume control on the guitar to control things .. per his rig video . I can tell you a Boogie dimed is an easy recipe for endless sustain , let alone his Dumble.

Yes. He's got the touch too!

Doesn't he use really big triangular picks? I think he used to and still might.

I can't play with those picks. And i can't get comfortable with little jazz picks like Eric Johnson uses.

It's obviously an individual thing.

 

[Tone-y]

When playing an electric guitar acoustically it resonating helps to amplify the sound as the whole guitar is acting as a soundboard. This could translate in to nice tone when playing through an amp but it won't really lead to more sustain, as the process of transferring energy from the string to the wood takes away some of that energy and thus reducing the amount of time the string will vibrate for. The exception here is if you get a positive feedback loop going from the speaker putting energy back in to the system to keep the string vibrating.
For maximum sustain without any additional energy going back in to the system you'd want the most solid, stiff, 'un-resonant' guitar.

.. At least in my opinion

 

[Lewguitar]

When playing an electric guitar acoustically it resonating helps to amplify the sound as the whole guitar is acting as a soundboard. This could translate in to nice tone when playing through an amp but it won't really lead to more sustain, as the process of transferring energy from the string to the wood takes away some of that energy and thus reducing the amount of time the string will vibrate for. The exception here is if you get a positive feedback loop going from the speaker putting energy back in to the system to keep the string vibrating.
For maximum sustain without any additional energy going back in to the system you'd want the most solid, stiff, 'un-resonant' guitar.

.. At least in my opinion

That was Les Paul's opinion too, and probably correct.

But that might not result in a guitar with a pleasing tone so I guess you need to find the balance.

My guitars all have a tone that I find pleasing even when they're unplugged. It's something I look for.

But you're also right in that that might not result in the guitar having maximum sustain.

I get the feeling Paul taps on the wood for a neck or body looking for that balance of good tone and good sustain.

 

[Tone-y]

That was Les Paul's opinion too, and probably correct.

But that might not result in a guitar with a pleasing tone so I guess you need to find the balance.

My guitars all have a tone that I find pleasing even when they're unplugged. It's something I look for.

But you're also right in that that might not result in the guitar having maximum sustain.

I get the feeling Paul taps on the wood for a neck or body looking for that balance of good tone and good sustain.

Yeah maximum sustain everywhere over the neck will not necessarily make the most pleasing tone as it will need to be fairly resonantly dead. A resonant guitar will have notes that resonate in sympathy with the strings and jump out more, and other notes that resonate out of sympathy and cancel out some of the sustain resulting in 'dead spots'. But it could well have more character as a tone generating machine