How do the number of people in a club affect your amp sound?

[captdg]

Played in public for the first time last night.. During sound checks everything sounded fine, but as the room got more people I couldnt seem to get the amp set right where I could have distinguishable tones vs. overpowering the band.. What gives? Play a Bernie and a Vox valvetronix that is miked.

 

[Twinfan]

From my experience, more people = treble gets sucked out

As a general rule for live work, don't use too much gain and keep the treble/mid/presence up.

 

[László]

The more people, the less reverberant the room becomes, and the fewer room modes. Most players adjust their amps several times during a gig as a room fills up.

 

[JMintzer]

Is this your sound guy?

Jamie

 

[Albrecht Smuten]

Is this your sound guy?

Jamie

Dream Theater made a documentary about recording the "Systematic chaos". There had three presets on their mix, labeled "Rock", "Suck" and "Gay", but they said they never use the last two

 

[aduayer]

From my experience, more people = treble gets sucked out

As a general rule for live work, don't use too much gain and keep the treble/mid/presence up.

I have the same impression. To me, lower gain and more mids are the key for a comfortable live sound. Too much bass and reverb can be a problem too.

 

[László]

I always figured a full club = better sound, because...well...it sucks to play to an empty room!

 

[Albrecht Smuten]

I always figured a full club = better sound, because...well...it sucks to play to an empty room!

Believe it or not, full club also affects your stage performance (no one wants to headbang for three people, one of which is your girlfriend)

 

[László]

Believe it or not, full club also affects your stage performance (no one wants to headbang for three people, one of which is your girlfriend)

My girlfriend wouldn't even show up, as she'd worry that my wife might be there and cause a scene.


Yeah, I know. As if I had a girlfriend.

 

[captdg]

My girlfriend wouldn't even show up, as she'd worry that my wife might be there and cause a scene.


Yeah, I know. As if I had a girlfriend.

Schef....Your girlfriend says you owe her cab fare and wants her shakeweight back.

 

[captdg]

thank you everyone. Great tips.

 

[László]

Schef....Your girlfriend says you owe her cab fare and wants her shakeweight back.

Ha! If I had a girlfriend, she'd probably need a cane more than a shakeweight! LOL

 

[nobozos]

Your amp settings should not matter as the room fills up. That should be a function of the sound man correcting for variations in the room. One thing that I do is use my amp basically as a monitor. I set my amp on a stand, pointing back at me off to one side and away from the audience. This has two effects. For one, it allows me to keep the volume of my amp down, while allowing me to hear the actual sound of my amp that my Microphone is hearing. With the amp positioned behind me, the volume needs to be higher for me to hear it, and it always sounds like there are less highs than there actually are. The result is that your guitar sound through the mains is different from what you are experiencing on stage. You also push out your guitar sound from the stage to the audience from your amp vs. through the PA. With the amp positioned so that it points at you, and away from the crowd, you get a better mix through the mains, which is where you really want your band's sound to come from. The ideal setup is to have all of the sound anyone hears from you to be coming from the mains. If you are properly set up, and the mix is coming from the mains, how full the room is will not matter on your amp settings, and will be adjusted by the sound man. The mic on your amp isn't on the other side of the room, it's about 2 inches away from your speaker, so the sound from the amp speaker to the mic won't be changed by how many people are in the room.

 

[Boogie]

Your amp settings should not matter as the room fills up. That should be a function of the sound man correcting for variations in the room.

True, but you are assuming that everyone has a sound man at every gig and that every instrument is mic'ed. That's simply not the case.

The other issue is that the acoustics of all rooms change as the contents (read: people/tables/etc/) are changed...that's a fact. And dependent upon the condition of those changes, adjustments may need to be mode, though I've never changed anything on my rig other than volume.

 

[leeasam]

Your amp settings should not matter as the room fills up. That should be a function of the sound man correcting for variations in the room. One thing that I do is use my amp basically as a monitor. I set my amp on a stand, pointing back at me off to one side and away from the audience. This has two effects. For one, it allows me to keep the volume of my amp down, while allowing me to hear the actual sound of my amp that my Microphone is hearing. With the amp positioned behind me, the volume needs to be higher for me to hear it, and it always sounds like there are less highs than there actually are. The result is that your guitar sound through the mains is different from what you are experiencing on stage. You also push out your guitar sound from the stage to the audience from your amp vs. through the PA. With the amp positioned so that it points at you, and away from the crowd, you get a better mix through the mains, which is where you really want your band's sound to come from. The ideal setup is to have all of the sound anyone hears from you to be coming from the mains. If you are properly set up, and the mix is coming from the mains, how full the room is will not matter on your amp settings, and will be adjusted by the sound man. The mic on your amp isn't on the other side of the room, it's about 2 inches away from your speaker, so the sound from the amp speaker to the mic won't be changed by how many people are in the room.

IMO this is how things should be done. Using an amp to fill a room usually works like crap as amps are very directional in their sound. stand right in front and it is loud clear etc stand off to the side and it sucks. quieter dull mabey more bassy. I never liked how any band sounds by the amp trying to fill the room unmiced. it just does not work-- well. I have the amp on a stand aimed right at my head. if you set an amp at your feet and try and eq it then aim it at your head it will sound totally different. I have read even large arenas some of those stacks are just for show and the guitarist real amp is miced under the drum riser or hiddem behing one of the fake stack cabs.

 

[Richard Lainegard]

This is a pretty technical link, but give it a go anyways: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour
In essence, what I take away from it, is that on louder volumes and stages, I always up my mids by a few notches,
to were in soundcheck or rehearsal levels it goes from sounding "spot on" to sounding "a bit too much",
when in full gig though, this results in a live "sweet spot" and a tone that is heard very well every time.
I use Deeflexx baffles these days for on stage monitoring, but still up the mids to the point where it's just a "tad" too much highmid.

 

[captdg]

Thanks for the link!

 

[Rango]

True, but you are assuming that everyone has a sound man at every gig and that every instrument is mic'ed. That's simply not the case.
.

DING DING DING we have a winner.... Who has a sound man? At best we walk out front (using a wireless) and listen... WALK back to the mixer which is on stage with us and repeat.

I generally try to get set up so I like the sound and just add volume needed when the room fills. If we are lucky, you get a friend from another band watching and ask between songs "how's it sound" and adjust accordingly.... Our Bass player used to walk out and play with the crowd on songs that he wasn't singing on and get a quick check as well. ;-)

Sound man - Bar band with a sound man? Really? :laugh:

Not that I wouldn't like to have one... but that's a luxury! :wink:

 

[captdg]

yeah..and a real one at that..Not just someones friend from Best Buy.

 

[captdg]

Your amp settings should not matter as the room fills up. That should be a function of the sound man correcting for variations in the room. One thing that I do is use my amp basically as a monitor. I set my amp on a stand, pointing back at me off to one side and away from the audience. This has two effects. For one, it allows me to keep the volume of my amp down, while allowing me to hear the actual sound of my amp that my Microphone is hearing. With the amp positioned behind me, the volume needs to be higher for me to hear it, and it always sounds like there are less highs than there actually are. The result is that your guitar sound through the mains is different from what you are experiencing on stage. You also push out your guitar sound from the stage to the audience from your amp vs. through the PA. With the amp positioned so that it points at you, and away from the crowd, you get a better mix through the mains, which is where you really want your band's sound to come from. The ideal setup is to have all of the sound anyone hears from you to be coming from the mains. If you are properly set up, and the mix is coming from the mains, how full the room is will not matter on your amp settings, and will be adjusted by the sound man. The mic on your amp isn't on the other side of the room, it's about 2 inches away from your speaker, so the sound from the amp speaker to the mic won't be changed by how many people are in the room.

im gonna try this..