How different does the Custom 24 sound vs the McCarty 594?

[László]

@LSchefman I have seen reviews that measure the output directly from the guitar and thought this maybe a way to show whether there is a difference and if so, by how much. If there is a better way, not that I have any experience to question the methods, then I will look forward to seeing the results. I have always believed the 'meter' at the guitar method was the best way to measure the output of the PU's - individually and together.

Anyway, I look forward to hearing any conclusions you find from your own methods.

There's undoubtedly a better, more scientific way to test gear, but I'm not really trying to do a test. In fact, I'm hoping people listen and reach their own conclusions!

It's just going to be (hopefully) a back-to-back, "Here's how my guitars sound when I use the exact same amp setting with all the guitars" demo. Then listeners can decide for themselves what each model sounds like, and when people ask how the ones I have sound, I can simply post a link to the clip.

I might do a "guitar volume 0-10 comparison," but I don't know if that will be meaningful; I guess I'll just see how it works out by trying it.

My hope is that because I'm using a single channel amp, each guitar will also alter the amp's tone by driving it a little differently, instead of just making it louder or softer. I guess it'll be more of a "welcome to my world" kind of thing than rocket science.

Of course, if people don't hear anything to distinguish the guitars from each other, I'm going to feel like an idiot! But I'm prepared to feel foolish, if need be.

"Admit it, Les, this is just an excuse to putz around with your gear."

"OK, I admit it."

 

[László]

OK, boys and girls, I decided to cut this down to just comparing the CU24 and 594 because I'm TOO LAZY to bother with anything else, and also I noticed a problem with my McCarty Singlecut track anyway and couldn't use it.

Here's the recording setup:

30th Anniversary Private Stock CU24 with 85/15s, and Wood Library 594 with 58/15s LTs.

3 Microphones; a Sennheiser 945 (dynamic), an Audix i5 (dynamic), and a JZ Black Hole (condenser), combined. DG30 amplifier run about as clean as I run it, with NO changes to the amp or the mic setup at ALL between the two guitars.

All pickups and tone controls all the way up (I never do this in real life, but figured for the test it's what I should do).

And here's how I sequenced the recording so you can best compare the guitars:

I start with 4 bars of CU24 Neck Pickup, followed by 4 bars of 594 neck pickup, followed by 4 bars of CU24 Neck Pickup, followed by 4 bars of 594 Neck Pickup. This is so you can hear both comparisons twice in a row, because they go by pretty quickly. After the neck comparison, there will be a few beats of silence. Then I did the same thing with the bridge pickups.

What I saw on the FFT Spectrum Analyzer but couldn't capture a screen shot because when I tried, the track stopped and the Analyzer stopped:

There's more midrange upper midrange energy in the CU24 tracks for both pickups, and less lower midrange. There's more lower midrange in the 594 tracks, and less midrange and upper midrange energy.

Whether any of this is helpful is up to you!

https://soundcloud.com/lschefman/cu24-594

 

[László]

Here’s a shot of how I set the DG30 up; as you can see, the bright switch is on, the gain’s a little over 1/2 way up, the highs are goosed, and the mids and bass are cut. The master volume is about 2/3 up.

As I said, this isn’t science, it’s just the way I do things with my amp, and I wanted a real-world, in-my-studio, comparison. Also I use a Pettyjohn preamp on my pedalboard, and I cut the low end a little there as well. There’s a reason for all this cutting of low end: I like my guitar tracks to cut through a mix, and not mask the bass or kick drum.

So yes it affects the guitar tone, but both tracks were recorded exactly the same way, so there’s a valid comparison. I think.

I’ll give my subjective thoughts on the comparison in the next post.

 

[Mozzi]

@LSchefman Its always going to be difficult to analyse the results you found doing this because whatever conclusion on the Spectrum Analyser can be dismissed because of the differences between both guitars - the thicker body, shorter scale length, fixed bridge construction of the 594. I am NOT suggesting you now swap the PU's over and repeat the exercise to see if the same results occur - either for the pick-ups (and thus the difference is categorically the PU's being different) or for the guitar (thus proving the PU's are the same and its the build that makes them sound different). I certainly notice the difference in the neck PU positions.

From my perspective, I don't know how helpful your test was for me. I already have my Custom 24 and 594 so its not made any difference to my decision to buy or affected my belief that the 85/15's are different (as PRS state) and that difference isn't 'just' whether its a covered or not. Those that want to believe that the Pick-ups are the same (apart from the cover or not) can use the differences I mentioned above as the reason for the difference in sounds. If you are adamant in your belief, the sound sample perhaps won't change peoples minds.

Both my 594 and Cu24 are Double cut body shape and I do find myself reaching for the 594 when I want a bit more of a vintage flavour to my Blues/Rock and the Custom 24 for a bit more of a modern flavour for my Rock/Metal. Both are great guitars and I really can't pick one over the other. I know both could do the same job if I wanted and even my Special 22 could enable me to sell both despite the fact that I also feel all my guitars are different enough to justify keeping them.

Regardless, the purpose of the thread was more about how much different the 594 and Custom 24 is and I still believe that the differences are noticeable and that the 85/15's are not just the 58/15's (LT, MT or any other variation) but without a cover (or just the squared off bobbins - or Squabbins if you prefer) as some people may have been led to believe. No disrespect to anyone, but I have to go back to the information and confirmation that the Pups are different until irrefutable evidence can be provided.

 

[László]

“So, Les, tell us what you really think.”

OK, here goes:

As they say in football, “The tape doesn’t lie.” It’s one thing to gather a bunch of impressions based on different days, and even if it’s on the same day, by the time you swap guitars, your brain is no longer doing an A/B test. Audio Memory is very short!

That’s why I went back-to-back, no distracting pauses between the two guitars on each pickup.

But here’s what I hear in this comparison demo, and it probably isn’t going to satisfy everyone...

1. The neck pickups, as installed in the two different guitars, sound clearly different. If you listen to the upper midrange and midrange, the CU24 obviously has more energy and bite, and if you listen to the lower midrange, the 594 is clearly fuller, exactly as you’d guess.

2. The bridge pickups are different, but the difference is more subtle, listening back-to-back. The CU24 bridge has a brighter mid and upper mid, and more bite; it also drives the amp a bit harder. The mids and upper mids of the 594 bridge are more recessed.

But...with this amp, set the way I have it, would you be able to tell which was which in a band mix? I don’t know about you, but I’d find it kind of difficult. Granted, these are cowboy chords played low on the neck, and other notes will sound different, but, you know...wouldn’t be easy to guess which was which.

So at least with regard to the bridge pickup under these conditions, Hangar 18’s point is well-taken. The neck pickup difference is far more obvious. BTW, I’m about 2/3 a neck pickup player, if that matters.

3. Despite the sonic differences, it’s fairly clear that these are brother/sister pickups. They sound like fraternal, but not identical, twins. No surprise.

 

[László]

@LSchefman Its always going to be difficult to analyse the results you found doing this because whatever conclusion on the Spectrum Analyser can be dismissed because of the differences between both guitars - the thicker body, shorter scale length, fixed bridge construction of the 594. I am NOT suggesting you now swap the PU's over and repeat the exercise to see if the same results occur - either for the pick-ups (and thus the difference is categorically the PU's being different) or for the guitar (thus proving the PU's are the same and its the build that makes them sound different). I certainly notice the difference in the neck PU positions.

From my perspective, I don't know how helpful your test was for me. I already have my Custom 24 and 594 so its not made any difference to my decision to buy or affected my belief that the 85/15's are different (as PRS state) and that difference isn't 'just' whether its a covered or not. Those that want to believe that the Pick-ups are the same (apart from the cover or not) can use the differences I mentioned above as the reason for the difference in sounds. If you are adamant in your belief, the sound sample perhaps won't change peoples minds.

Both my 594 and Cu24 are Double cut body shape and I do find myself reaching for the 594 when I want a bit more of a vintage flavour to my Blues/Rock and the Custom 24 for a bit more of a modern flavour for my Rock/Metal. Both are great guitars and I really can't pick one over the other. I know both could do the same job if I wanted and even my Special 22 could enable me to sell both despite the fact that I also feel all my guitars are different enough to justify keeping them.

Regardless, the purpose of the thread was more about how much different the 594 and Custom 24 is and I still believe that the differences are noticeable and that the 85/15's are not just the 58/15's (LT, MT or any other variation) but without a cover (or just the squared off bobbins - or Squabbins if you prefer) as some people may have been led to believe. No disrespect to anyone, but I have to go back to the information and confirmation that the Pups are different until irrefutable evidence can be provided.

This was about the guitars, not the pickups, for obvious reasons. I am not equipped to do pickup comparisons. I said it wasn’t going to be science.

It wasn’t done to prove or disprove anyone’s point about the pickups. It was done to demonstrate the two guitars. It wasn’t designed to be helpful to you, since you can make the comparison yourself; you have both models. Personally, I don’t care if the difference between the pickups is only that someone blessed them with holy water. It’s how the guitars function in my studio that interests me.

That said, differences between the guitars are obviously noticeable. This was also confirmed in looking at the spectrum analysis on all pickups. I mentioned it for that reason.

But like I said, I don’t compare pickups, I compare whole guitars with the pickups they came with! I do not, repeat, do not have an opinion as to the pickups out of the context of being part of the guitars.

I think listeners should draw their own conclusions based on the recordings.

In my post above, I do say, “as installed in the two different guitars” in Point No. 1.

 

[László]

I ought to again say that my choice of amp and setup no doubt affected the recording. The DG30 is not a neutral amp, it imposes its sonic character on all guitars (that’s one reason I like it!). Next time I do one of these I might use a different amp. The clean channel on the Lone Star might be good choice.

I always say, the amp is at least half of the tone recipe. Maybe more?

 

[Revelation]

Wow, 3 years have gone by since I first posted about the 594. I returned that 594 as it was not the right color. I also wanted to spend more time with a Custom 22 which I did. I really like the Custom 22 but for what I'm looking for, I really want a McCarty 594. I just ordered a DC in the color I wanted. It's arriving on Tuesday. I will post my feeling about the guitar once I get to know it. I also bought a Gibson 335 60's Cherry last year which I love.

After owning 2 Gibsons and 2 Fenders, I am hopeful this 594 will complete my electric guitar collection. I'm not a fan of having so many guitars as the more you have, the less you will play it.

 

[bodia]

Wow, 3 years have gone by since I first posted about the 594. I returned that 594 as it was not the right color. I also wanted to spend more time with a Custom 22 which I did. I really like the Custom 22 but for what I'm looking for, I really want a McCarty 594. I just ordered a DC in the color I wanted. It's arriving on Tuesday. I will post my feeling about the guitar once I get to know it. I also bought a Gibson 335 60's Cherry last year which I love.

After owning 2 Gibsons and 2 Fenders, I am hopeful this 594 will complete my electric guitar collection. I'm not a fan of having so many guitars as the more you have, the less you will play it.

Sweet! Congrats on the incoming

 

[Revelation]

This beautiful guitar should be arriving on Tuesday. Thanks Sweetwater

 

[xxxadixxx]

This beautiful guitar should be arriving on Tuesday. Thanks Sweetwater

The Charcoal finish is my favorite. Just the right combination of dark/light contrast up front with the natural binding and back. OMG. It gets me every time. I am holding out hope someone will want to part with a charcoal Tremonti to add to my aquamarine and trampas green 594's. Congrats on the beautiful instrument!

 

[bodia]

This beautiful guitar should be arriving on Tuesday. Thanks Sweetwater

Nice!

 

[gush]

A video clip is worth 10,000 words.

Demo of CU24 and CU22:

Demo of 594:

I'll tell you what.......that 594 sounds ridiculously good. Makes me want to put that 8515 back in my McCarty and try it.

I listened to that 594 clip a few times and I swear to God I hear Joe Bonamassa and Eric Johnson tones poking through.

If my guitar could sound like that I'd have nothing left to b**** about.

 

[Rod/]

Trying to figure out what is the best PRS for me. I'm more of a Clapton, Stevie Ray, Jeff Beck, Larry Carlton player.

I already have a LP Custom, Fender Strat, Tele and Carvin 575.

The Double cut 594 or Custom 22 appear to be my best options

I’d check out a DGT… imho, the best of both worlds. Or an older CU22 or McCarty with the wrap tailpiece if you don’t want a trem.

 

[Revelation]

Due to the holiday, my guitar won't be coming until tomorrow.

So I have been watching lots of videos on the 594 to hold me over. Its always better to go to a store and try out several guitars to see which one you like the best. However when there is limited stock and most stores in my area do not carry PRS, I was forced to get it from Sweetwater who has the best stock of PRS guitars. I will say with PRS, I have the confidence that the difference between guitars are not a big compared to other company's. So even though I was not able to try this particular guitar out, I know that it will be very similar to the other 594 that I tried at a store. I persoanlly wanted to provide the local store my business but they don't have a credit card with no interest for 24 months. So I went to Sweetwater instead. I also like the coal color better than the purple one at the other store.

In regards to the DGT, I am more attracted to the design and look of the 594.

 

[Revelation]

I received the guitar today and the first thing I was surprised about was the way it looked. It almost seems like Sweetwater photo shops the photos. What do you think?

Also look at this marks on the wood in the 2nd photo. I have not seen that before on a guitar.

 

[xxxadixxx]

I received the guitar today and the first thing I was surprised about was the way it looked. It almost seems like Sweetwater photo shops the photos. What do you think?

Also look at this marks on the wood in the 2nd photo. I have not seen that before on a guitar.

What marks specifically? I do not see anything abnormal.

 

[Revelation]

The marks on the binding. Those lighter lines. I don't think it is a defect but I never saw that before on binding.

 

[SinSir]

Looks the same to me besides the difference between professional photos and a phone. Those marks are the grain from being real maple instead of the plastic stuff.

 

[xxxadixxx]

The marks on the binding. Those lighter lines. I don't think it is a defect but I never saw that before on binding.

That is the side profile of the "flame". This is how you can tell the top is solid rather than a vaneer. Look closely by the selector switch and you should be able to connect the light lines on the side to the very light gray on top. What we see as figure is the result of wood fiber compression as the tree grows. It causes it to take again differently.