How can I make my PRS SE sound more like a Les Paul?

[Torvald]

If the Epiphone 59 RI is the real deal it sorta proves that you don't need a Les Paul to get that sound. I.E. , no 17 degree headstock angle, no premium woods from the 50's, Asian pickups and hardware. In other words, not the real thing, not made by Gibson, but it's got the sound, right?

 

[Torvald]

I must correct myself. Apparently the 59 RI's do use USA made pickups. Still, makes me think that if you've got the good electronics and the right scale length you're most of the way there, regardless where or by whom the guitar was made. Darn Epiphone Les Paul's are so cheap on the used market, I might have to try one! I think they're cheaper than used SE's.

 

[Rod/]

But Seriously Folks is my favorite Joe Walsh album of all time. He can do it all, listening to that record.

I'm Off Topic on a Zombie thread, how fun!

His solo records after The James Gang when he lived in Colorado outside of Boulder were very fine as well. Kenny Passarelli (great bassist) still lives in Denver

 

[Rod/]

I think what Rhett was saying had more to do with the consistently high level of quality with PRS guitars, whereas the quality of Gibsons can vary, but if you look hard enough you can find a great one. And those can be just as refined as any PRS model.

Considering that all Gibson is doing is trying to create a guitar that was built in 1959, your ”refined” conclusion is debatable at best.
As far as tone is concerned, we’ll that’s up to the user.

 

[Draconomics]

I still think the Hamer USA models were exceptional guitars, on a par with anything from the Gibson or Fender Custom Shops. I have gigged with as my primary guitar for years and have turned down more than a few offers to buy it.

I really dig the old US made Hamers. Good solid instruments. Absolutely on par with Big G.

 

[tbp0701]

I'm torn on the Hamer. I keep debating on taking it to a local luthier to see what he can do. While I like the sound of it better than my Mira, the PRS is in the general ballpark, and I play it better. Still, though, the Hamer has a rich, full sound aside from the occasional buzz and possible wolf tone. It's also my prettiest guitar. Well, the natural Collings acoustic and G&L korina ASAT are awfully pretty, too.

Anyway, as for the Les Paul headstock angle, at another forum I read a post from one of the old Hamer luthiers. I may not be fully recalling correctly, but they were working on something but not quite getting the LP tone. They changed the headstock angle, and there it was. So evidently the angle makes a difference.

 

[Birdsofprey]

I’ll go against the grain here, headstock angle or even string pull straight ala PRS or angled ala Gibson has zero to do with tone but everything to do with tuning stability. As does the nut.

 

[Torvald]

I’ll go against the grain here, headstock angle or even string pull straight ala PRS or angled ala Gibson has zero to do with tone but everything to do with tuning stability. As does the nut.

I agree. And how could headstock angle affect the fretted note? If a greater headstock angle improved tone Paul Smith would be all over it.

 

[Longneck Tenon]

Considering that all Gibson is doing is trying to create a guitar that was built in 1959, your ”refined” conclusion is debatable at best.
As far as tone is concerned, we’ll that’s up to the user.

I don’t know if “refined” is the right word but there has to be something special about those vintage Les Pauls or people wouldn’t be shelling out millions of dollars for them.

 

[Longneck Tenon]

I don’t know if “refined” is the right word but there has to be something special about those vintage Les Pauls or people wouldn’t be shelling out millions of dollars for them.

 

[Mystic38]

I’ll go against the grain here, headstock angle or even string pull straight ala PRS or angled ala Gibson has zero to do with tone but everything to do with tuning stability. As does the nut.

Well i suspect you are swimming uphill.. Paul often says "everything affects tone" .. so yes it must.

Or, just lets be logical.. the headstock angle makes the guitar prone to breakage if you let it fall over.. so do you really think a manf. would just keep it like that for absolutely no reason other than laziness?.. if the equation is sub-standard tone or a angular headstock they made the right decision.

The LP will be around and revered long after other companies flame out.

 

[Torvald]

The LP will be around and revered long after other companies flame out.

Because of the guys that played them that were great musicians. They didn't have anything better at the time.

 

[Mystic38]

Because of the guys that played them that were great musicians. They didn't have anything better at the time.

It is what it is.. the number of guitarists that became famous with Gibson and Fender guitars just dwarfs the rest of the manufacturers by orders of magnitude. Both companies have earned a place in history, some other just make nice guitars.

 

[Birdsofprey]

Well i suspect you are swimming uphill.. Paul often says "everything affects tone" .. so yes it must.

Or, just lets be logical.. the headstock angle makes the guitar prone to breakage if you let it fall over.. so do you really think a manf. would just keep it like that for absolutely no reason other than laziness?.. if the equation is sub-standard tone or a angular headstock they made the right decision.

The LP will be around and revered long after other companies flame out.

So the headstock angle is part of Gibsons design so no need to change it that’s why it was kept that way as far as the LP staying around again you’re making a statement about company longevity not tone heck I agree. PRS will be around to ,but that’s another subject. Paul did say everything affects tone. I’ll stick with my original statement.

 

[doublescale1]

After I sold my R9 because it just wasn't changing my life, I sold it at a modest profit and I just bought a Faded Cherry Les Paul Studio back in 2016 for $650.00 and put a set of Jim Wagner American Steel pickups in it - LP itch scratched for low money... It does have more low end grunt than my '06 McCarty and even my DC 594. I'm in a big 9-piece horn band with a second guitarist and find that the LP gets masked in the live band mix between the Baritone Sax player and the Bass player sometimes. I really think the slightly lesser amount of low end in a McCarty is, to me, way more preferable in a live band mix because it's not getting stepped on by other low-freq. instruments but still had a more than full fidelity, authoritative, maple/over/mahogany humbucker guitar presence in the live band mix. But if you've got the sonic breathing room, a good LP is tough to beat for some good ol' rock&roll grunt. Horses for Courses.

 

[Rod/]

I don’t know if “refined” is the right word but there has to be something special about those vintage Les Pauls or people wouldn’t be shelling out millions of dollars for them.

IMHO, it’s more about the unobtainable factor and the high prices are because of their rarity, and all the collectors out there these days. Big business when you’re selling a real ‘59 for $400,000
Hell, most younger players have never even played a real ‘59.. No slight intended.
I’ve played many real 59’s. Owned an early 60 with 59 neckcarve, before they slimmed them down some….a Goldtop 57 , a Goldtop 56, 55 and 54 all with P-90’s…the 56 was the most special of the bunch. This is back when all of these guitars were in the $3000 range and under…..
A few R9’s I’ve played have been real nice, most have been so so…..
I’ve played a few Gustafson LP’s that were extraordinary as well as my Corsa Manaleshi and Swaim Guitar Works korina/maple LP Standard. Wouldn’t sell those 2 for anything.

 

[Longneck Tenon]

IMHO, it’s more about the unobtainable factor and the high prices are because of their rarity, and all the collectors out there these days. Big business when you’re selling a real ‘59 for $400,000
Hell, most younger players have never even played a real ‘59.. No slight intended.
I’ve played many real 59’s. Owned an early 60 with 59 neckcarve, before they slimmed them down some….a Goldtop 57 , a Goldtop 56, 55 and 54 all with P-90’s…the 56 was the most special of the bunch. This is back when all of these guitars were in the $3000 range and under…..
A few R9’s I’ve played have been real nice, most have been so so…..
I’ve played a few Gustafson LP’s that were extraordinary as well as my Corsa Manaleshi and Swaim Guitar Works korina/maple LP Standard. Wouldn’t sell those 2 for anything.

I am not young, but I do have a friend who owned a 56 gold top and 58 sunburst. He considered the 58 to be the best guitar he has ever heard.

 

[Longneck Tenon]

I must correct myself. Apparently the 59 RI's do use USA made pickups. Still, makes me think that if you've got the good electronics and the right scale length you're most of the way there, regardless where or by whom the guitar was made. Darn Epiphone Les Paul's are so cheap on the used market, I might have to try one! I think they're cheaper than used SE's.

A new Epi 59 LP reissue retails at $749 USD. The JB Lazarus LP is $799 but has a higher grade veneer and one piece neck. They sound identical to each other. Epiphone collaborated with the Gibson Custom Shop on all of the electronics including 50’s style wiring, caps and pots.

 

[Longneck Tenon]

After I sold my R9 because it just wasn't changing my life, I sold it at a modest profit and I just bought a Faded Cherry Les Paul Studio back in 2016 for $650.00 and put a set of Jim Wagner American Steel pickups in it - LP itch scratched for low money... It does have more low end grunt than my '06 McCarty and even my DC 594. I'm in a big 9-piece horn band with a second guitarist and find that the LP gets masked in the live band mix between the Baritone Sax player and the Bass player sometimes. I really think the slightly lesser amount of low end in a McCarty is, to me, way more preferable in a live band mix because it's not getting stepped on by other low-freq. instruments but still had a more than full fidelity, authoritative, maple/over/mahogany humbucker guitar presence in the live band mix. But if you've got the sonic breathing room, a good LP is tough to beat for some good ol' rock&roll grunt. Horses for Courses.

I have an 07 McCarty that honestly sounds muddier than my Epiphone 59 reissue LP. I wish PRS had gone to separate volume and tone controls back then instead of coil taps. The McCarty is a beautiful guitar and has some really nice sounds. But I have decided that the sound of a Les Paul suits me better. Horses for Courses, as you say.

 

[Longneck Tenon]

I’ll go against the grain here, headstock angle or even string pull straight ala PRS or angled ala Gibson has zero to do with tone but everything to do with tuning stability. As does the nut.

My other PRS guitars with locking tuners stay in tune a little better than the McCarty, they are all easy to keep in tune. But both of my Les Paul style guitars also hold their tune very well.