How a "Sweet Switch" really works

Discussion in 'Electric Instruments' started by Em7, May 9, 2012.

  1. crgtr

    crgtr Zombie Eight - DFZ

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    I put a sweet switch on one of my SE One's. Did it with a Push/Pull on the volume. It's subtle, but cool.
    [​IMG]
     
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  2. aristotle

    aristotle New Member

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    The part that didn't totally make sense to me about Em7's theory was the part about the 75 ohm impedance of the delay line somehow mimicking the capacitance of a 100 foot cable. Em7 is historically quite knowledgeable though, so I don't discount his conclusion.... His description in his post didn't make the case for me. We haven't heard from him in some time. Hope he's OK.

    Cool SC One crgtr! Do you have a circuit diagram for what the add-on was?
     
  3. ozboy

    ozboy New Member

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    There is a sweet shift on a prs cu24 30th anniversary i have. There is no coil split. Sonically to my ears the sweet shift is almost like moving the pups towards the bridge.
     
  4. crgtr

    crgtr Zombie Eight - DFZ

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    I'll have to look around. I grabbed 2 off ebay a while back. One to use with push/pull & one with the mini switch.
     
  5. Boogie

    Boogie Zombie Two, DFZ

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    :wink:
    Come, Igor, there's much work to be done...
     
    #25 Boogie, Nov 10, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2015
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  6. eclecticsynergy

    eclecticsynergy PRS user since '87

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    The sweet switch in my #1 isn't subtle; it's quite useful and I think of it as being almost like a "vintage/modern" switch. Definitely sweetens the top end and brings out the mids slightly in a lively and voicelike way. There are subtle differences in what it does at each setting of the 5-way, and that makes it even more flexible- very handy indeed. I think these differences are due to variations in inductance for the various coils and series vs parallel.

    I've also seen a number of comments from folks who tried using it with aftermarket pickups and heard almost no difference. So I think it may be best suited to the original T&B humbuckers with their unorthodox slug coils and exceptional treble response & attack. Yet it also seems to work with the the early versions of the VB/HFS sets, maybe not quite as well though.

    During thirty years with this guitar I have grown very attached to that little switch. (Yet I admit that I still miss having a tone control, something I tweak a lot from moment to moment on my other axes.) Have considered getting one to replace the midboost in an HSS Superstrat, but I'm concerned that it might not be as effective with the Tyler pickups as it is with the old PRS ones. Yet I love the sweet switch. And that guitar, which was my first-ever PRS and remains my favorite to this day.

    If anybody has a handle on what makes it less effective with certain pickups, I'd love to be able to predict reliably how it'd work in a different axe.
     
    #26 eclecticsynergy, Jun 7, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2016
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  7. alantig

    alantig Zombie Four, DFZ

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    I got the tone push-pull sweet switches on my PS build. The original sweet switch was a toggle, and I assumed this would be the same kind of thing - if the sweet switch is off, it's a regular tone knob, but if the sweet switch is on, the tone would have no effect. I was wrong - when the sweet switch is on, you can still turn the tone knob and it seems to change the frequency of the sort of notched wah effect.

    dsenoj and I were talking about it, and he suggested a demo, so I'll pop something into SoundCloud in the next couple weeks and do my best to remember to put it in this thread.
     
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  8. VoxAC30HW2

    VoxAC30HW2 New Member

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    Since my Custom 22 has the Dragon Pickups how will the
    Sweet Switch effect the sound of the pickups?
     
  9. 1986Custom24

    1986Custom24 New Member

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    Hello all,

    I have an understanding problem with the explanation of the sweet switch working principle.

    1) If 1513-135Y is just a delay, the signal would be only delayed. But the sweet switch changes the sound, so it is not only a delay effect. Maybe somebody can explain it in detail?

    2) The sound effect of a long guitar cable (100ft) is not only the delay, a delay would not affect the tone. So why should the delay time of about 135ns have been taken as a reference for dimensioning the sweet switch delay line? I did not get the logic.

    3) Does the sweet switch affect the tone even when it is turned off?

    Thank you very much :)
     
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  10. NazgulUK

    NazgulUK Oops I did it again

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  11. Boogie

    Boogie Zombie Two, DFZ

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    It simulates approximately 70’ (someone correct this) of guitar cable…capacitance and resistance…and the loading on the amp input it provides. A sweet switch is more of an inductor cascade, if I remember the circuit diagram, and does not function when off. Not sure about the amount of actual delay perceived, and I ran with about 60’ of cable for the better part of 40 years.
     
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  12. shimmilou

    shimmilou Established in 1963

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    In simple terms, it uses a coil with inductance, which is also known as a low pass filter. It is simply different approach to filter frequencies and change the tone, as opposed to the typical capacitance circuit. Using the term “delay” is a bit misleading about how the device works, it actually opposes higher frequencies and passes lower frequencies, so it is still a tone control circuit.
     
    #32 shimmilou, Aug 13, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2021
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  13. LSchefman

    LSchefman Hears Tones

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    I have a pull-up tone pot sweet switch on my PS 30th Anniversary CU24. It was standard on that limited run.

    I actually tried the one on my guitar, once. ;)

    Here's an article on how analog EQs work. Ethan's a pretty knowledgeable person who recently helped with placement of the upgraded acoustical treatment in my studio.

    Capacitors and inductors in all analog EQs partially shift the phase by delaying the signal so that certain frequencies are out of phase and partially cancelled out. There are people who claim to hear the phase shift in EQs. I don't know if they can or not. Some digital EQs make a big deal out of being linear phase.

    Ethan's right about how analog EQ works.

    https://ethanwiner.com/EQPhase.html
     
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  14. 1986Custom24

    1986Custom24 New Member

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    Thank you very much for the fine explanations! :)

    I wonder why the Sweet Switch was discontinued, because it is a very nice effect (on my Custom 24 from 1986). Can anybody explain this?
     
  15. Slowhands

    Slowhands New Member

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    I own a 1990 Cu24 with a sweet switch and so I do goofy things like search youtube for things like "1990 PRS". If you search for that specific term you find this video:



    Paul himself walking through the different models, the features, switching options, pickup characteristics, construction techniques, all that. Nice time capsule. At 17:37 he talks about the sweet switch. In his own words "What a sweet switch is ... it's an imitation of about 35 feet of extra jack cord. It takes the tone down about an octave. It's like pulling a wah wah pedel back about a third of a cock"

    My own experience with the sweet switch is that if you have the volume way up it makes little difference. If you take it down to 5 or so the difference is significant. Without a tone knob you have to use the volume in combo with the sweet switch to really dial in tones. Once you get used to that it's a good system and I enjoy having it.
     
  16. Screamingdaisy

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    I was never really interested in a sweet switch, but after hearing that demo I think I want one.
     
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  17. Alnus Rubra

    Alnus Rubra Loving nature’s wonders

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    After that demo I’m up for a deep dish with meat toppings!;)
     
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  18. 64 Tele

    64 Tele New Member

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    "Tone washers"
     
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  19. watelessness

    watelessness Member

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    so, it's not because of the washer on the body?
     
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  20. Going Modal

    Going Modal I should be practicing right now.

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    I like Paul's simple explanation of how it takes it from "Aaaahhh" to "Oohhhh." Honestly, that stupidly simple explanation seemed dead-accurate from the sound clip!
     
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