Hollowbody II First Impressions

[treillw]

Hello Everybody. I've been playing a Hollowbody II for quite some time now and I have made some observations about it and just wanted to see if anybody else has had any similar experiences.

1. There is a pretty substantial volume jump going from the piezo only to magnetic only mode.
2. It seems to go out of tune pretty often.

Thanks

 

[veinbuster]

Welcome to the forum.
I think the volume jump is controllable if you think it is important by balancing the magnetic pickup volume to the piezo volume. I usually switch through the blend, but mine are fairly well balance. Granted I'm not at 10 on the magnetic volume.
I haven't found mine is any more prone to going out of tune than any other guitar I have once the strings are stretched. I do keep mine in the case when not playing, which I find helps tuning stability - just because the guitar isn't subject to the variations in temperature and humidity the house is subjected to.

 

[AaeCee]

1. Any guitar with both piezo and humbuckers will exhibit a substantial volume difference between the two.

and

2. Mine stays in tune extremely well. Are you using the same gauge strings that came with it? If so, have the nut checked as that's the issue 95% of the time and is a quick and simple fix, and if not, it's definitely the nut.

 

[treillw]

I picked the guitar up used and still have some time to determine if I'm keeping it. Just thought I'd throw these questions out there to see if this is common. The volume difference is understandable - I just didn't know the best way to mitigate it for live playing.

As for the tuning, I mean it's not terrible, it's just not as good as my 513 which I can not tune for a month and it's practically still right there. If I let the hollowbody go for 2 or 3 days its about a third of the way to a flat or sharp on my tuner. I believe it came with standard gauge stings.

 

[Felix]

The piezo transducers -all 6 of them- are adjustable for volume. A fine-tipped Phillips-head screwdriver and a good ear can help to equalize the volume. For the record, I have a Hollowbody II and the volume of the magnetic and piezo pups are about equal at the magnetic on full and the blend pot just below midpoint. It is as good at staying in tune (unless you bump the tuning pegs, which I am always and forever doing, having played FR-equipped machines for most of my life) as any guitar I own (3 FR guitars, a PRS with a PRS trem and my HBII).

As an aside, I love the blurred-out tones the HBII can get with a dead or disconnected battery; there is a range of tone and texture there, quite hidden in a scarlet-letter-type way. The blend pot almost works like a second tone/volume pot, with what seems to me like an interdependence with the other controls almost recalling "'50s wiring" (although the tones and results are quite different).

 

[thieves&foxes]

So far I have nothing but praise for my SCHBII, granted had it less than 24 hours.

There is a difference in volume between the piezo and the magnetic, but that requires a bit of tweaking, and so far it holds tune wonderfully.

 

[László]

As for the tuning, I mean it's not terrible, it's just not as good as my 513 which I can not tune for a month and it's practically still right there. If I let the hollowbody go for 2 or 3 days its about a third of the way to a flat or sharp on my tuner. I believe it came with standard gauge stings.

It might be more affected by relative humidity levels than a solid body guitar, simply because the top can swell or shrink as it absorbs and releases water over the course of a day, and a hollow guitar has two surfaces to absorb or release water from the environment.

I wouldn't call a guitar that needs to be retuned when it's played a problem in any case.

 

[Egads]

For playing live, I run the piezo through a good DI, then straight to the PA. This alleviates any volume issues, and gives you a more acoustic sound.

I just went on a two week vacation, and when I came back, both SC Hollowbodies were still in tune. They had been hanging on the wall of a humidified basement. I love my Hollowbodies.

 

[SteveB123]

My HBII stays in tune really well. I keep it in the case when I'm not playing it.

I love the blurred-out tones the HBII can get with a dead or disconnected battery; there is a range of tone and texture there, quite hidden in a scarlet-letter-type way. The blend pot almost works like a second tone/volume pot, with what seems to me like an interdependence with the other controls almost recalling "'50s wiring" (although the tones and results are quite different).

This is a neat idea - I'm going to try it!

Steve

 

[Felix]

It might be more affected by relative humidity levels than a solid body guitar, simply because the top can swell or shrink as it absorbs and releases water over the course of a day, and a hollow guitar has two surfaces to absorb or release water from the environment..

^ This.

I wondered myself why PRS did not finish the inside. Money, I would suppose... or maybe it is felt that sealing it would be detrimental to tone.

As an aside, wood is very hygroscopic and can change with humidity and heat levels in very little time, expanding and contracting from the ends in (which is one reason good-quality acoustics have purfling (that and the "bellows action" of such an instrument, though I understand that this is more important to bowed instruments). I really should put my HBII in the case when I am not playing, but I don't. Still, its tuning is very stable.

 

[László]

In the past I wondered about the fact that I can't recall seeing any guitar finished on the inside, even though it seemed like it might be a cool idea.

The information I found is that very few luthiers have ever done it because it makes repairing the instrument more difficult. A well known Martin repair specialist said that it doesn't do anything other than to add weight, because you really can't put enough on to slow down moisture absorption, and the claim was that the weight would make the top respond more slowly.

Apparently it makes common repairs like the typical glue patch that is used to fix cracks extremely difficult.

So it generally isn't done.

I've also heard that it usually is not done on other stringed instruments like violins, etc., for the same reasons.

Edit: It just occurred to me that I know more than one guitar freak who would buy a guitar with a finished interior, and then complain about the quality of the finish!! "Why can't they buff it out?" Etc. LOL.

 

[Felix]

I have seen a very few single-maker, master-luthier-made guitars with french polish on the inside. But that is all. I am under the impression that some old, high-quality Cremonan instruments are finished on the inside, but I cannot find any info on that right at the moment. I do know that the wood was treated.

Speaking of Cremonan instruments, LSchefman, didn't you post a pic of a highly-decorated early guitar (lute?)? It was very nice, and I'd like to have a copy for my files. [It looked like a Strad; the Amalfi and Guarneri families made violins (etc.) which were not as highly decorated as Stradivarii, IIRC, Amalifi being more the more prestigious maker-family (of the two) at the time, of course, whereas Del Gesu Guarnerii instruments are often held in higher regard by virtuosos today even than Strads.] ...Or was that a different member?
Link, anyone?

 

[László]

Speaking of Cremonan instruments, LSchefman, didn't you post a pic of a highly-decorated early guitar (lute?)? It was very nice, and I'd like to have a copy for my files. [It looked like a Strad; the Amalfi and Guarneri families made violins (etc.) which were not as highly decorated as Stradivarii, IIRC, Amalifi being more the more prestigious maker-family (of the two) at the time, of course, whereas Del Gesu Guarnerii instruments are often held in higher regard by virtuosos today even than Strads.] ...Or was that a different member?
Link, anyone?

This one?



It isn't an Italian instrument. It was made in 1697 in France by Jean-Baptiste Voboam. More info here: http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/works-of-art/1989.147

The Strads and other Cremona instruments were not finished inside. They were, however, probably lightly brushed with a salt/mineral water solution of some kind to deter woodworms after construction, and soaked in some kind of a solution before construction.

There's an an interesting article on these solutions here: http://www.rsc.org/education/EiC/issues/2005July/violins.asp

Here's a nice video of the Sabonari Stradivarius being played three years ago; the guitar was not highly decorated compared to the French instrument. The rosettes were actually made from parchment, very few were carved wood. And they were commercially available parts, like you'd get from Stew-Mac! Very few makers made their own rosettes. The rosettes of course prevented anyone from seeing inside the guitars. They were not finished inside.

:

 

[sergiodeblanc]

I wouldn't call a guitar that needs to be retuned when it's played a problem in any case.

I agree. Spot tuning is just something you do. I expect any guitar to remain in tune for about three songs in a live setting, and every other chord in a studio environment.... Two or three hours, let alone days for a hollowed out log with a few thousands pounds of tension on it still seems respectable for me.


Maybe Les and I are just used to keeping analog synths in tune, all it took was for somebody to open a door and they would drift.

 

[Felix]

This one?



It isn't an Italian instrument. It was made in 1697 in France by Jean-Baptiste Voboam. More info here: http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/works-of-art/1989.147

The Strads and other Cremona instruments were not finished inside. They were, however, probably lightly brushed with a salt/mineral water solution of some kind to deter woodworms after construction, and soaked in some kind of a solution before construction.

There's an an interesting article on these solutions here: http://www.rsc.org/education/EiC/issues/2005July/violins.asp

Here's a nice video of the Sabonari Stradivarius being played three years ago; the guitar was not highly decorated compared to the French instrument. The rosettes were actually made from parchment, very few were carved wood. And they were commercially available parts, like you'd get from Stew-Mac! Very few makers made their own rosettes. The rosettes of course prevented anyone from seeing inside the guitars. They were not finished inside.

:

Thank you for the pic, and the info. Most interesting. French in the 1800s would have been my next guess, rather than the 1600s. Then the shape would have been more evolved though, right? I have read that every existing Italian instrument of the mid-1600s to the mid-1700s were worked over by "French luthiers" in the 1800s.

An interesting side-note: certain fungi can make wood very light without sacrificing stiffness (like the wood grown in the Maunder Minimum and used in the Cremonan instruments). I have wondered for a few years how an electric guitar made of such treated wood might sound. Of course even experts repeatedly mistake modern instruments for Stradivarii in blind tests, so... there's lots of "psych" in psychoacoustics!

 

[Felix]

Oh, P.S.: The article you posted a link to that is, the one one the Strad varnishes, mentioned woodworm; this is one reason I thought the instrument was Cremonan (as these used treated woods, the infestations of woodworm are prevented or slowed considerably) - besides its lavish decoration, which Stradivarius was often obliged to put on for noble customers (is how I heard it). That guitar is in fine shape.

 

[PFL]

Mine stay in tune w/o problems i run 0.10 on mine and I adjusted the height of the pick ups to have output of them balance better to my taste. Now it has been cold ( down in the south WHATTA) and All of mine guitars are suffering so a lot rod adjustment going on lately. But I also have a ES335 and I can tell you the PRS II is way but way more stable.

 

[Tag]

As for the tuning, I mean it's not terrible, it's just not as good as my 513 which I can not tune for a month and it's practically still right there. If I let the hollowbody go for 2 or 3 days its about a third of the way to a flat or sharp on my tuner. I believe it came with standard gauge stings.

Fine hollowbodies are going to do that if you do not keep them humidified. Keep them at between 40 and 50% humidity and they will stay in tune as well as a solidbody. Many times the better the hollowbodied guitar sounds, the more it will go out of tune with slight humidity changes. Acoustic archtops are a REAL PITA.

 

[Felix]

I just checked; with 3 days of no tuning,my HBII was +20 cents sharp on the low E to none off on the high e, in a smooth curve of values. The temp is the same; the humidity is +18%.

 

[László]

I just checked; with 3 days of no tuning,my HBII was +20 cents sharp on the low E to none off on the high e, in a smooth curve of values. The temp is the same; the humidity is +18%.

Cool that you went to the trouble of measuring that!