high quality high gain tubes for Archon Head 50/25

[David Hale]

I have Ruby tubes in my Archon 50/25 watt head but I'm curious what else is out there that would be better or I should look at. Need high quality high gain tubes with a punchy low end but can also produce balance mids and warm clean tone. Might be asking for to much by I figured I should see what else I should be looking at to try out.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

The Mullards are probably my favourites. Pay also attention to how they're rated -- I do mostly clean, so I got a "late breakup" set, but if you play mostly dirty, then I would recommend an early breakup set (of whatever tubes you end up liking), and if you play a lot of both, then I would get a middlin' set.

 

[elvis]

Be aware that unless you buy NOS, there are only a couple sources for tubes these days. So many tubes are identical despite different brands.

Typically Chinese are bright, European are dark. Watch the voltage ratings, as New Sensor tubes have a bit lower plate voltage rating, and are not good for many cathode follower sockets.

Here is one example that calls out where various brands of tubes are made (click on each brand to see who makes it).
http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/Tubes-by-Manufacturer

 

[David Hale]

The Mullards are probably my favourites. Pay also attention to how they're rated -- I do mostly clean, so I got a "late breakup" set, but if you play mostly dirty, then I would recommend an early breakup set (of whatever tubes you end up liking), and if you play a lot of both, then I would get a middlin' set.

I play a mix of both so a balance tone is kinda what I'm looking for thanks!

 

[László]

David, in most modern high gain amps, a more substantial percentage of the tone comes from the preamp section, not the power section of the amp, unless you're truly cranking it. Your original post doesn't mention whether you're after recommendations on preamp tubes, or power amp tubes.

Also, there really aren't "high gain" tubes, per se. There are tubes, and the circuits are designed to push them into higher gain levels, and often the gain is cascading gain from several gain stages.

Therefore, the circuit itself may work really well with some tubes, and yet a different amp may not make those very same tubes sound the best.

You may be aware of this, of course. Some companies (JJ comes to mind) make a hotter preamp tube than most. So that may tend to break up nicely. Or...not.

On the other hand, you may or may not care for the tone to start with. All of this tube stuff is so personal!

The most balanced sounding EL34 power tubes I've found (other than ultra-rare and expensive NOS Mullards) are German-made NOS Siemens, but I'm not a high gain player so please take that into account in deciding whether they'd be for you. I crank my amp that uses them pretty loudly (PRS HXDA), but keep in mind it's a vintage type of amp, and they might sound radically different in an amp made for the preamp tubes to handle most of the gain action.

I'll also put in an argument that NOS Mullard preamp tubes (not the new ones made in Russia, the old ones made in the UK Blackburn factory) are richer sounding than anything new out there, smoother and fatter to boot. But they're expensive, when you can even find them. I keep one or two sets of spares on hand, so I tend to stock up on the NOS stuff and have it ready just in case because of the difficulty in acquiring them.

There is a certain amount of insanity, if not wishful thinking, that goes into this tube rolling stuff, but for the most part I do find that the NOS tubes made in the 50-70s are more reliable and that they perform better. In a way, I'm kind of amazed that after 40-60 years, the darn things are even available at all!

 

[David Hale]

David, in most modern high gain amps, a more substantial percentage of the tone comes from the preamp section, not the power section of the amp, unless you're truly cranking it. Your original post doesn't mention whether you're after recommendations on preamp tubes, or power amp tubes.

Also, there really aren't "high gain" tubes, per se. There are tubes, and the circuits are designed to push them into higher gain levels, and often the gain is cascading gain from several gain stages.

Therefore, the circuit itself may work really well with some tubes, and yet a different amp may not make those very same tubes sound the best.

You may be aware of this, of course. Some companies (JJ comes to mind) make a hotter preamp tube than most. So that may tend to break up nicely. Or...not.

On the other hand, you may or may not care for the tone to start with. All of this tube stuff is so personal!

The most balanced sounding EL34 power tubes I've found (other than ultra-rare and expensive NOS Mullards) are German-made NOS Siemens, but I'm not a high gain player so please take that into account in deciding whether they'd be for you. I crank my amp that uses them pretty loudly (PRS HXDA), but keep in mind it's a vintage type of amp, and they might sound radically different in an amp made for the preamp tubes to handle most of the gain action.

I'll also put in an argument that NOS Mullard preamp tubes (not the new ones made in Russia, the old ones made in the UK Blackburn factory) are richer sounding than anything new out there, smoother and fatter to boot. But they're expensive, when you can even find them. I keep one or two sets of spares on hand, so I tend to stock up on the NOS stuff and have it ready just in case because of the difficulty in acquiring them.

There is a certain amount of insanity, if not wishful thinking, that goes into this tube rolling stuff, but for the most part I do find that the NOS tubes made in the 50-70s are more reliable and that they perform better. In a way, I'm kind of amazed that after 40-60 years, the darn things are even available at all!

Wow thanks for the great info and insight. I should have mentioned that I'm running 6L6's in this bad boy. I don't play any shows currently so don't necessarily crank it to loud very often, I just use this for normal playing/practicing in my house mostly but when I do play with my friend that's a drummer, the low end kinda sounds messy when cranked up loud and little loose. I'm thinking it could be the cab I'm using that's affecting the kind of tone I want. (it's Orange 2x12 open back) I think I need to try this amp with a closed back honestly and see how the difference is there before ordering a bunch of expensive tubes.

 

[elvis]

Put it in 50W mode and turn the Depth down. That will tighten up the lows. Don't be afraid to turn it all the way down - this beast has a LOT of lows.

Alternatively, turn Bass all the way down, and use Depth to give a little bump to the lows. I've done both and they work really well.

Closed cab is also helpful, but the Archon has plenty of controls, I think you can get there without spending more dough.

Right now I have Treble at noon, mid all the way up, bass all the way down and Depth at like 11:00. It sounds nasal at home, but great with my band. I go to everything at noon at home with low volume. Don't scoop it, the Archon is already very scooped with everything at noon.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Your original post doesn't mention whether you're after recommendations on preamp tubes, or power amp tubes.

First of all, great post, as always. David, I just assumed you were talking about the power tubes, so take my post with that in mind. Les' points about the preamp section having more to do with the tone are spot on -- I've just given up, as I'm pretty happy with the stock tone on most of my amps, so I concentrate largely on the power tubes, which are more likely to fail in my lifetime.

 

[László]

I think you're right to experiment with speakers and cabs before tubes, David; a cab or even different speakers will make a much bigger difference. And both Elvis and Dusty make some great points.

Here's another thing to be aware of: room acoustics, cabinet placement, and how they affect the amp's sound.

As an example, a cab sitting on the floor experiences "half space reinforcement" that increases the low end by a substantial amount. Put it on the floor near a wall, and you've got "Quarter space reinforcement" that causes even more bottom end. A corner results in 1/8 space reinforcement, for even more bass than quarter space.

This is because low frequencies are omnidirectional, and highly susceptible to reflections off floors and walls, as well as room modes due to their long wavelengths. So all kinds of weird stuff happens.

Something as simple as putting the speaker cab on a chair (don't put your amp head on top if it's at ALL wobbly!) can reduce these bass problems noticeably, as can pulling the cab farther out from the wall, away from corners, etc.

And of course, a carpeted room or one full of furniture will absorb high frequencies, and alter the balance of lows to highs, making the lows appear louder. A highly reflective room, though, creates a muddy sound due to reflections off floor and walls.

I think most guitar players don't spend much time thinking about how strongly the room itself affects their tone, but believe me, it matters (and of course, that's why amps have tone and presence controls, etc).

 

[Kred]

Another free tone experiment is the power tube bias. If you have a multi-meter, you can experiment with different bias settings and see what you like at low/high volumes. Write down the original bias settings, so you can always return to the factory settings. If you change power tubes, you have to re-bias anyway.

 

[vchizzle]

Wow thanks for the great info and insight. I should have mentioned that I'm running 6L6's in this bad boy. I don't play any shows currently so don't necessarily crank it to loud very often, I just use this for normal playing/practicing in my house mostly but when I do play with my friend that's a drummer, the low end kinda sounds messy when cranked up loud and little loose. I'm thinking it could be the cab I'm using that's affecting the kind of tone I want. (it's Orange 2x12 open back) I think I need to try this amp with a closed back honestly and see how the difference is there before ordering a bunch of expensive tubes.

Loose and messy doesn't describe the low end typically associated with this amp. If all controls are at noon(minus the master volumes), does it sound loose and messy? If so, try different cab and see how that affects things. I've never played mine through an open back. Orange cabs tend to accentuate bottom end too, so keep that in mind. I haven't played an open back Orange though.

 

[TroyBaer]

Loose and messy doesn't describe the low end typically associated with this amp. If all controls are at noon(minus the master volumes), does it sound loose and messy? If so, try different cab and see how that affects things. I've never played mine through an open back. Orange cabs tend to accentuate bottom end too, so keep that in mind. I haven't played an open back Orange though.

Also try rolling back the resonance control on the amp a bit. Open-back cabs do tend to have a bit looser low end than closed-back cabs IME.