Help required fellow musician nerds!

Tube amp, Kemper power rack or plug-in's via a DAW?

  • Tube amp of some kind

    Votes: 6 66.7%
  • Kemper

    Votes: 2 22.2%
  • DAW plug-in's

    Votes: 1 11.1%

  • Total voters
    9

auntie.krist

New Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2017
Messages
10
Location
Kitchener, Ontario
Hey people,

I decided to reach out to my fellow PRS players for assistance as my wife is surely tired of listening to me blab on about amplifiers etc.

Basically, my dilemma is currently deciding on what the hell to play my PRS through.. I have an EVH 5150iii 1x12 combo on rent right now and its fantastic but it doesn't cover everything I want to do.. plenty of gain in fact its amazing in that regard but absolutely no clean tones.. so I debate returning it.

This leaves me wondering if I should spend the money on a Kemper powered rack unit, purchase logic and a few good plug-ins and play through my iMac (would be super easy for recording purposes this way, or continue to hunt for the proper amplifier and have to mic it up to do any recording. (and buy an attenuator as I live in a condo.)

Any insight would be awesome folks! Anyone have any luck with the Kemper or just using plug-ins through DAWs?
 
The UAD plug-in's sound pretty dang good. Debating going this root as it would be so much cheaper than the $3000 for the Kemper.

The Logic plugins aren't that rad for high-gain stuff though. Just a warning, you'll wanna supplement them, and UAD stuff is about as nice as it gets.
 
Scuffham Amps has a pretty nice plug-in called S-Gear. Runs in standalone mode as well. Several base model amps (no brand names, but it's pretty easy to get an idea of what they're emulating), some effects and convolution speaker emulation (you can load your own impulse responses, too). Well worth checking out - it's the main amp plug-in I use.

https://www.scuffhamamps.com/product/s-gear
 
I'm thinking that due to the humongous discrepancy in price between the things you're asking about, a better choice might be the Atomic AmpliFire.
 
I'll give you my two cents, since I have Logic, the UAD stuff, every other amp plugin on the market, and real tube amps.

I'd get a tube amp with great cleans and excellent overdrive, and add something like a Mesa Cab Clone or Suhr load box. Then I'd load some speaker impulses into Logic's Space Designer impulse response plugin and run the signal through the impulse response. It's very simple. There are also other impulse response playback plugins that are quite nice.

I sometimes do this in my work creating music for TV ads, and it sounds more real than plugins or a Kemper. Sounds great. Plus you of course can also hook a speaker cab to the amp when the situation arises that you need an amp.

PRS makes great amps, so do others. The advantage a real tube amp has is the way it responds.

Kempers, Helixes and plugins can be nice, but don't feel or sound quite the same as a tube amp. I have the Scuffham plugin and it's very good, because it offers the ability to load your own speaker impulse responses right into its interface, like the Helix and Kemper.
 
There is nothing like the real thing. I've heard the Kemper, and quite frankly, it's not my bucket of tea. If you go in that direction, definitely check it out before you buy. I honestly fell for all they hype and thought it would replace all my amps and all my pedals, but it actually has a sound. It's just too...I don't know, 'sterile'? That's too strong a word, as is 'lifeless', but it just doesn't have the same "of this world" sound that the real thing has. It's like the difference between playing guitar and hearing a recording of it, except you are still playing the guitar.

Don't get me wrong, I fully believe that one can accomplish drool-worthy tones in the digital realm, I just don't think they've made it accessible to you and I yet. You need to be a Steven Wilson level magician to get those kind of tones from digital technology. I certainly wouldn't spend Kemper money on a Kemper. $200 sounds doable, though, didn't realize Logic was that cheap.

I'd be looking long and hard at a Sonzera if I were just starting out, although my favourite clean tones I own are my AC30 and my Rivera Suprema. I'm still GASsing for a JP-2C due mostly to the demo I heard of its clean tones, and the variety of tones it has on offer (JP stands for John Petrucci, a progger, and he gets pretty heavy, so I'm not downplaying those dirty tones, they're real, and really good, they're just less important to me).

Now, all of that said, you (deliberately?) left out a viable alternative in the way of analog modeling -- I would definitely audition a Vox Valvetronix+ series or MVR50 (which has a 'nutube').
 
I think some Mesa amps will give you great overdrive and cleans that are more than acceptable. I have a Mesa F50 combo I picked up secondhand at a bargain which I will never part with for its versatility. They are okay at lower volumes, but not great.
Also, I recently bought up a Friedman Runt 50 head and 212 cab. Great overdrive and super cleans (which surprised me). Very loud though. They have a combo version and also a 20 watt version, but I couldn't get as much gain from that.
I think Guthrie Govan gave a great example for live use of a Kemper in a recent issue of Guitarist. He used it when he played with an orchestra to make things easier for the sound guy. I don't see myself playing with an orchestra soon, so I'll stick with tube amps.
 
Thanks guys!

After some long and hard thinking last night, I have decided to keep my EVH 5150iii combo as it honestly sounds amazing for the most part. I have actually managed to get a decent cleaner tone out of it that I quite enjoy but I think for clean tones etc I will either pick up another tube amp like some of you have suggested or I will just use whats built into logic or pick up a plug-in of some sort for that. I do have the Mercuriall spark plug-in which is based off of Marshall amps and it doesn't sound too bad honestly. The nice thing about my EVH combo is that it has a built-in power attenuator so I can play quietly but still get a great tone out of it. Ill be shopping around for another amp eventually here, I kind of want another PRS first though.

Has anyone heard the ENGL Savage UAD plug-in or their Friedman plug-ins. They sound pretty great.
 
Thanks guys!

After some long and hard thinking last night, I have decided to keep my EVH 5150iii combo as it honestly sounds amazing for the most part. I have actually managed to get a decent cleaner tone out of it that I quite enjoy but I think for clean tones etc I will either pick up another tube amp like some of you have suggested or I will just use whats built into logic or pick up a plug-in of some sort for that. I do have the Mercuriall spark plug-in which is based off of Marshall amps and it doesn't sound too bad honestly. The nice thing about my EVH combo is that it has a built-in power attenuator so I can play quietly but still get a great tone out of it. Ill be shopping around for another amp eventually here, I kind of want another PRS first though.

Has anyone heard the ENGL Savage UAD plug-in or their Friedman plug-ins. They sound pretty great.

Right on. Honestly, that's the best option. The Logic plugs sound pretty good for clean stuff, I've used 'em a bunch on people's records (or what passes for records these days) without being bummed about the tones at all.

Seriously though, buy Logic today. It is hands down the best value and most important musical tool or instrument I own.
 
Right on. Honestly, that's the best option. The Logic plugs sound pretty good for clean stuff, I've used 'em a bunch on people's records (or what passes for records these days) without being bummed about the tones at all.

Seriously though, buy Logic today. It is hands down the best value and most important musical tool or instrument I own.

Could you recommend a solid audio interface that will double as an input for the guitar into logic as well as a way to mic my EVH?
 
Could you recommend a solid audio interface that will double as an input for the guitar into logic as well as a way to mic my EVH?

The UA stuff is excellent but, if you're on a budget (or want to save $$$ for a PRS) then the Focusrite or Presonus or any of those will do. Really at a certain price point they're all using the same converters and opamps, and most budget stuff today is pretty good (and neutral) sounding.

I have a lower/middle end Akai unit that I record stuff at home with that gets mixed with tracks done with higher-end interfaces/converters and for guitar stuff... nobody has complained yet about a lack of quality. Really, it's more about knowing how to use the stuff than it is buying the best stuff. Sure, sometimes it's easier to make great sounding tracks with high-end pieces (i.e.: running drums and guitars through Neve or API mic pres or squashing stuff with 1176's and LA2's) but not always.

If your songs suck, there's no amount of esoteric gear that'll make them not suck, ya know?
 
Has anyone heard the ENGL Savage UAD plug-in or their Friedman plug-ins. They sound pretty great.

I've demoed both on my UAD Apollo system. I also have the other amp models Brainworx developed for their native system (same algorithms, part of the "all bundle" I bought).

They are my least favorite amp models. They sound like wet cardboard. Don't even get me started on how crap their Fuchs model sounds, it's not even remotely close.

UAD does a much better modeling job when they do it themselves.

The strange thing is that Brainworx and Plugin Alliance do brilliant, genius things with signal processors, especially their mid-side processing. For the life of me I can't figure out what their problem is with amp modeling when others do it so well.

I like, and use, the UAD system for audio processing, but you'd have to be willing to throw money away if you bought it for amp models.

Also, if you've never used a DAW, it can be confusing to go UAD because it runs on its own mixing app in the background that has to be setup along with your DAW in order to use the hardware. For me, it's a piece of cake, I've lived with DAWs for 27 years, but for a first time user there may be a fairly steep learning curve.
 
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Could you recommend a solid audio interface that will double as an input for the guitar into logic as well as a way to mic my EVH?

I'm running an Mbox Pro into ProTools and Logic, but I've given serious thought to switching over to something in the Focusrite Scarlett line. I'd be lying if I said I didn't have some occasional hiccups getting the Mbox to work (you know, this worked yesterday and today it doesn't).

I'll second Sergio's recommendation on Logic. I keep ProTools because that's the first DAW I used and I can do some things quicker on it because I understand it a bit better, but I'm getting the hang of Logic more and more. I can't pretend I'm using Logic (or ProTools, for that matter) anywhere near its capabilities, but it gets the job done and the sound is fine. It's actually a bit more flexible w/plug-ins than ProTools.
 
In terms of audio interfaces, I'm overall pretty happy with my Focusrite Scarlett 2i2. Very easy to use, very clean compared to other stuff I've kicked around in the hobbyist end of the pool, sturdy yet light/compact enough to bring with you. I got the package that came with a very decent sounding condenser mic, a nice XLR cable, a pair of halfway decent cans, and try-me versions of Pro Tools and Ableton Live. My main gripe is that I use it primarily to monitor my amp head for late night silent practice, and it needs to be plugged into a USB port on an "awake" computer to stay on. No AC adapter comes with it, and none of my phone or tablet bricks seem to give it the right amount of juice to stay happy, and so far I've been too lazy to go look online to see if they offer a proprietary brick.
 
Also, I recently bought up a Friedman Runt 50 head and 212 cab. Great overdrive and super cleans (which surprised me). Very loud though. They have a combo version and also a 20 watt version, but I couldn't get as much gain from that.
Just curious, how is the analog XLR out on that Runt 50 amp? I'm intrigued by that as a possible step-up head from my Egnater Rebel 30. I like the general concept of the XLR direct recording out combined with big-tube headroom and firmness.
 
Blasphemy! :eek:

:D
Guilty, I. :D

Maybe it's easier to be dismissive when I know they're really good, too. I do occasionally want dirty tones (there's a cover I want to do in the Type O Negative style -- cut speed in half and make harder), and then, of course, they become more important to me.
 
Dusty, my good man, in situations like this I always say, you gots to use the gain sometimes. It helps keep you young!

I am a living testimony of this. I use the gain almost daily, and my wife just told me again last night that I was acting like a teenager. Regardless of how she intended that, I took it as a compliment. :D
 
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