HELP! PRS

[carpercen]

HELP! PRS Trem bridge not staying on pivot screws! (Photos and video included)

Hi guys!
How are you?
Here I am hoping to have this problem solved

I have a PRS S2 CU24 and although im not an expert on whammy bar effects I've never had a problem using the trem arm on my guitar till today...

Whan rehaersing Kirk Hammet's solo from master of puppets, I tried the whammy bar effect on the harmonic but suddenly the bridge snapped out of its place!
I don't understand... it was perfectly rested over its 6 mounting screws and suddenly it was out of it... I detuned the guitar, loosen springs, put it again on its right place over the mounting screws, tightened strings, tunned, ajusted springs and everything was fine to play again, decided to test the floating movement and... again it snaped out of its place...

Ive repeated the proces like 30 times, no kidding and I can't use the trem arm without the bridge jumping out of it's place...

Please if someone knows what is going on please tell me!

P.D. My guitar came with 3 springs, I decided to add two more cause I read it could help me with a wolftone it have, it's the only thing I've done... weird enough, when I wanted to go back to 3 springs I couldn't get the bridge to float at 1.6mm like it should, when using 3 springs, the bridge floats way to high than it should, now I only can have it at 1.6 mm by using the 5 springs, I tell you this in case this is somehow!


Thanks


EDITED: Here some pics and video
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B-Dp2VII_hX4Wm1EQzBKVU1lTDQ&usp=sharing

 

[alantig]

I would assume if you added springs, you'd need to adjust the claw, so maybe when you go back to three, you need to move the claw to get the trem back into place.

 

[carpercen]

Yes i know that already, i actually did that... the thing was that I tightened thr claws to the point I couldt turn the screws anymore but the bridge was way too lifted even after having tightened the claws that much...

 

[sergiodeblanc]

Sounds like your trem isn't resting in the knife-edge of the screws. One or more of them may lower or higher than the others.

 

[Rider1260]

Try this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHA_xu844Rs

 

[carpercen]

Try this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHA_xu844Rs

Hi!
Thanks! Just watched the video!
So I need to mess with the mounting screws? I really fear that I have too as it strongly advised not to do it but if there's no other way...

BTW I just added a link to my drive folder where you can see first how the bridge looks with 3 springs, and then with 5, also in one of the last pictures you can see how the bridge plate rests over the mounting screws, don't know if that is the right heigt... Finally, a video showing the moment it happens, please look till the end!

 

[AP515]

I think your problem is that when you are playing without using the trem, you think it is in the correct place but it is really the "wrong" position. When you use the trem it pops into the "right" position which is in the groves in the screws. The problem is your screws are too high. If you look at this photo you see that they are higher than the height set at PRS. If you bought the guitar 2nd hand, someone else has raised them and they should have been left alone. You could set them yourself like in the video or you can have a luthier do it. If you bought it new, have your store get it set under warranty.

Now the reason your trem is not parallel when you take off the two springs is because the tension on the strings overpowers the 3 remaining springs and pulls the trem forward. You will need to adjust (loosen) the claw screws in the back to level the trem again when using the 3 springs (they were tightened when the 5 springs were put on).

 

[carpercen]

I think your problem is that when you are playing without using the trem, you think it is in the correct place but it is really the "wrong" position. When you use the trem it pops into the "right" position which is in the groves in the screws. The problem is your screws are too high. If you look at this photo you see that they are higher than the height set at PRS. If you bought the guitar 2nd hand, someone else has raised them and they should have been left alone. You could set them yourself like in the video or you can have a luthier do it. If you bought it new, have your store get it set under warranty.

Now the reason your trem is not parallel when you take off the two springs is because the tension on the strings overpowers the 3 remaining springs and pulls the trem forward. You will need to adjust (loosen) the claw screws in the back to level the trem again when using the 3 springs (they were tightened when the 5 springs were put on).

Sup man! Here you are again savin' me!

Man you have just said something that totally blew me off... do you remember the problem I had where no matter how much I used the trem it didn't stayed in tune? then you showed me how the bridge should rest over the body and I did that exact thing and it was like in the photo you show, and that way it stay perfectly in tune, did you watched the video? Cause what you are saying is that it "pop" to the right position? but in that position never stays in tune! It goes sharp or flat depending on trem arm position!

Could you post some detailed pics of your bridge so I can see better what you mean? Sorry that I ask you that, I'm Mexican and some phrases I don't know how to correctly translate them!


By the way, I bought the guitar new on sweetwater, the problem is that Im in México, near Guatemala and sending the guitar back to have it checked would cost me a ton... and I wanted to invest that money on an amp (Laney IRT Studio) so... If I can get it fixed by myself it would be great! I don't know why is this happening... I had used the trem before and this never happened!


And about what you said on the springs... I have tried that... first I loosen the springs which is also a pain because there's a point when I loose them when the brigde pops out too.. and the spring fall also... so I have to do put the bridge so it sits flat on the body, hold it there with a hand, while the other puts the springs back hoping a miracle can help as while puting one the other falls off... and when I finally managed to put everything back in place, without releasing the hand that press the bridge on its position I start tightening strings hoping that the bridge doesnt pops out by a wrong movement, when all this goes right, I tune the guitar, the bridge lifts... tighten the claws, repeat the proces... tune strings, tighten claws... but I get to a point where I can't keep tightening the claws and the bridge still floats way too high.... I don't know what the hell happened there...

So, I really apreciate all the help I can get cause I saved my money so I could buy a new amp and I'd hate to have to spend it on this If I could have it fixed by myself...


Thanks!

 

[AP515]

Hi, I do remember that now. Let's see if we can finish getting you back to original condition. If you haven't moved any of the 6 set screws and they are exactly at the same heights they were from the factory, then we only need to do a new set up on the trem and you will be back to normal. Here is what I would do:

Loosen the strings but don't remove them from the guitar. Use only the 3 trem springs and loosen the 2 claw screws until the 3 springs are loose but not falling off. Set the trem in the grooves in the 6 screws and make sure it is moves easily. Tighten the tuning keys so that the strings come up to tune. This will make the trem rock forward like your first photo.

Make sure the trem still moves in the grooves in the 6 set screws.

Tighten the 2 claw screws in equal turns until the front of the trem starts to raise up off the body of the guitar. Stop there and tune the guitar again.

Turn the 2 claw screws again so that the trem starts to get level with the guitar body. Stop and tune again.

Turn the 2 claw screws until the trem is parallel with the guitar body. Stop and tune again.

Now move the trem arm a few times and also bend the strings a little. Stop and tune again.

Check to see that the trem is parallel with the body and it is 1.6mm from the guitar body. Stop and tune again.

If the strings are in tune and the trem works then you are done. If not, tune again and try to use the trem arm and see if playing and tuning brings it back to normal.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[carpercen]

Hi, I do remember that now. Let's see if we can finish getting you back to original condition. If you haven't moved any of the 6 set screws and they are exactly at the same heights they were from the factory, then we only need to do a new set up on the trem and you will be back to normal. Here is what I would do:

Loosen the strings but don't remove them from the guitar. Use only the 3 trem springs and loosen the 2 claw screws until the 3 springs are loose but not falling off. Set the trem in the grooves in the 6 screws and make sure it is moves easily. Tighten the tuning keys so that the strings come up to tune. This will make the trem rock forward like your first photo.

Make sure the trem still moves in the grooves in the 6 set screws.

Tighten the 2 claw screws in equal turns until the front of the trem starts to raise up off the body of the guitar. Stop there and tune the guitar again.

Turn the 2 claw screws again so that the trem starts to get level with the guitar body. Stop and tune again.

Turn the 2 claw screws until the trem is parallel with the guitar body. Stop and tune again.

Now move the trem arm a few times and also bend the strings a little. Stop and tune again.

Check to see that the trem is parallel with the body and it is 1.6mm from the guitar body. Stop and tune again.

If the strings are in tune and the trem works then you are done. If not, tune again and try to use the trem arm and see if playing and tuning brings it back to normal.

Let us know how it goes.

Hey man! That's exactly what I did several times yesterday and always ended the same, the bridge popint out from the screws...

So, just to be sure we are talking in the same langauge, when you say "Set the trem in the grooves in the 6 screws and make sure it is moves easily." what do you mean with "grooves", I'm not sure how to translate it... if posible, could you post a pic of what this "groove" looks like?

If you are buss right now, there's no problem, I can wait, but I'd really apreciate if you could show me the right way the bridge should be on the screws and with a photo I could understans what we are talking about!

Another thing, when you say to make sure it floats 1.6mm over the body... you mean all the bridge should be floating 1.6 over the body? cause if its like that then I get wrong what it was supposed to be, as I set only the back of the bridge floating at that heigh, I mean the oposite part from the pivot screws, like this:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-Dp2VII_hX4cURzRzM0Qml0S1E/view?usp=sharing

Although in the picture its more than 1.6mm just wanted to show you what I mean!

 

[AP515]

...So, just to be sure we are talking in the same langauge, when you say "Set the trem in the grooves in the 6 screws and make sure it is moves easily." what do you mean with "grooves", I'm not sure how to translate it... if posible, could you post a pic of what this "groove" looks like?

Puedes ver el surco en este foto tomado del video. Esta abajo de la cabeza del tornillo.

If you are buss right now, there's no problem, I can wait, but I'd really apreciate if you could show me the right way the bridge should be on the screws and with a photo I could understans what we are talking about!

Another thing, when you say to make sure it floats 1.6mm over the body... you mean all the bridge should be floating 1.6 over the body? cause if its like that then I get wrong what it was supposed to be, as I set only the back of the bridge floating at that heigh, I mean the oposite part from the pivot screws, like this:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-Dp2VII_hX4cURzRzM0Qml0S1E/view?usp=sharing

Tu foto en el link arriba muestra como es el Trem antes de tornar los 2 tornillos. Tienes que bajarlos hasta que el Trem se hace plano con la guitarra.

Although in the picture its more than 1.6mm just wanted to show you what I mean!

Al final tu Trem debe aparecer asi:

Puedes ver que los tornillos son mas bajos, sin embargo, no estan tocando el plato del trem, y el trem es plano con la guitarra.

 

[carpercen]

Al final tu Trem debe aparecer asi:

Puedes ver que los tornillos son mas bajos, sin embargo, no estan tocando el plato del trem, y el trem es plano con la guitarra.

Oh my god... I tought it should never be rested in that part... holy grail of face palm... but it was like that when I received the guitar... I feel kinda stupid right now -.-, so the "groove" is what I thought was the "don't ever touch this part under any ciircumstances"... then I need to tighten the screws so the bridge holes and the "grooves" fit together, right?

 

[carpercen]

I don't know if its the same as the Strato bridge but the look very similar to me... so, should the screws look low like this?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-Dp2VII_hX4c3lHXzhqYW5XU2M/view?usp=sharing

And just to confirm, the holes on the bridge where the screws are set, must fit with the groove from them right? I just need to lower all of them one by one...!

Is there a risk in doing all of this?

 

[AP515]

I don't know if its the same as the Strato bridge but the look very similar to me... so, should the screws look low like this?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-Dp2VII_hX4c3lHXzhqYW5XU2M/view?usp=sharing

And just to confirm, the holes on the bridge where the screws are set, must fit with the groove from them right? I just need to lower all of them one by one...!

Is there a risk in doing all of this?

If you raised the screws then yes, you need to lower them again. If they were set that high at the factory then they are at the right height and the trem should go up to them (and this would set the trem height to the guitar). Yes, the holes in the trem are where it rides in the groove. The Strat trem is different. Those screws do not have a groove in them. The PRS screws are a little higher than the trem as in my photo of my green guitar. If you need to lower the trem screws again (to where they were originally) you should used a 2.5mm Allen wrench as in the video. That will set them at the right height.

 

[carpercen]

If you raised the screws then yes, you need to lower them again. If they were set that high at the factory then they are at the right height and the trem should go up to them (and this would set the trem height to the guitar). Yes, the holes in the trem are where it rides in the groove. The Strat trem is different. Those screws do not have a groove in them. The PRS screws are a little higher than the trem as in my photo of my green guitar. If you need to lower the trem screws again (to where they were originally) you should used a 2.5mm Allen wrench as in the video. That will set them at the right height.

Hi!
i actually haven't raised them... so it's weird, the guitar is in factory shape... I never ever touched those screws... So I should leave them like that? Man... never tough trem bridges where this troublesome... Even floyd roses where piece of cake to me... I should have bought the fixed bridge model...

So first I need to make the bridge float over the body so it's heigh fits the screws groves right?

 

[AP515]

Hi!
i actually haven't raised them... so it's weird, the guitar is in factory shape... I never ever touched those screws... So I should leave them like that? Man... never tough trem bridges where this troublesome... Even floyd roses where piece of cake to me... I should have bought the fixed bridge model...

So first I need to make the bridge float over the body so it's heigh fits the screws groves right?

Trems are not usually difficult. You just have it out of the grooves and it isn't happy that way. Yes, go through the set up again but this time make sure the trem is in the grooves. Then tune the strings and adjust the 2 claw screws while keeping the trem in the grooves. When you are done it should be fine.

 

[carpercen]

Trems are not usually difficult. You just have it out of the grooves and it isn't happy that way. Yes, go through the set up again but this time make sure the trem is in the grooves. Then tune the strings and adjust the 2 claw screws while keeping the trem in the grooves. When you are done it should be fine.

Thanks man!
I'm still at work and dont know when I'll be home but once I get there I'll do everything you have taught me and I'll report back! As far as I understand, the bridge will sta in the grooves in a floating mode due to string and spring tension, that's the secret I guess... I haven't clue of that, maybe that why I couldnt fix it back then the first time you pointed out my mistake in my other post, so I hope everything goes fine this time and thank you!

I guess I'll post the pics tomorrow cause I'll be working with the guitar very late in the night!

 

[carpercen]

Trems are not usually difficult. You just have it out of the grooves and it isn't happy that way. Yes, go through the set up again but this time make sure the trem is in the grooves. Then tune the strings and adjust the 2 claw screws while keeping the trem in the grooves. When you are done it should be fine.

Hi AP!

It's finally done...

Sorry, I couldnt share it with you yesterday... but here it is:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B-Dp2VII_hX4Ml9CaDZBaEp2VkE&usp=sharing

I tried to take the pictures the best I could but I suck as a photographer...

But the news: I put the bridge back on to the screw grooves everything's been fine so far...

Just want to point some things I found while doing this (by the way I also adjusted neck relief as there was no gap at fret 12 when fretting 1st and last fret of the guitar, I set the gat at 2mm using feeler gauge):

The 6 pivot screw are not in the same height, I was wondering If a should fix that, cause there is one or two screws that are lower than the other four. Do I need to level them so they are in the exact height? If so, is the allen key method what I should use to do it? (the one from the video using the 2.5mm allen key to set the height) is that height the right one?

Another thing: when I first finished the set up, the bridge was floating higher than 1.6mm over the body, but the strings where higher also, so I adjusted the height of strings again and the bridge height went down and parallel to the body, but It looks like its higher than 1.6mm, maybe 1.8mm (sry, I don't have all the tools I need), also I tightened the claws till I could tighten any more using 4 springs (guitar came with 4, I said before it came with 3 but I was wrong, sorry for that) and got to make the bridge parallel, but couldnt get it to rest at 1.6mm, is this shomething I should address?

Point #3: I feel the strings tighter than before, but I don't know if Im imagine this... It just something that I felt... but they couldnt been thighter than before right? I mean, Its the sema tunning E standard so they cant be tighter... if so, the tuner would mark F or F# standar right?

I wanted to ask you also... how do you set your strings height when you don't have an understring gauge? I just have the normal feeler gauges, and use a piece of carton where I draw the guitar radius and cut it to shape, but I really don't think is the best way to do it... What is the right height of every string? and how can I make the strings match the guitar radius without the right tools?

Las thing that pops to my mind: Do you think this guitar can handle .11 strings? I wanted to try them as I heard they sound great and also because I suspect using higher gauge string would help me with the wolf tone problem!

Thanks, and excuse me that I bother you with all this questions... I'll understand if you don't feel in the mood to answer!

Thanks you so much man for helping me twice! Big hugs from Mexico!

 

[AP515]

Hi AP!

But the news: I put the bridge back on to the screw grooves everything's been fine so far...

Just want to point some things I found while doing this (by the way I also adjusted neck relief as there was no gap at fret 12 when fretting 1st and last fret of the guitar, I set the gat at 2mm using feeler gauge):

The 6 pivot screw are not in the same height, I was wondering If a should fix that, cause there is one or two screws that are lower than the other four. Do I need to level them so they are in the exact height? If so, is the allen key method what I should use to do it? (the one from the video using the 2.5mm allen key to set the height) is that height the right one?

... I couldn't get it to 1.6mm, is this shomething I should address?

Point #3: I feel the strings tighter than before, but I don't know if Im imagine this... It just something that I felt... but they couldnt been thighter than before right? I mean, Its the sema tunning E standard so they cant be tighter... if so, the tuner would mark F or F# standar right?

I wanted to ask you also... how do you set your strings height when you don't have an understring gauge? I just have the normal feeler gauges, and use a piece of carton where I draw the guitar radius and cut it to shape, but I really don't think is the best way to do it... What is the right height of every string? and how can I make the strings match the guitar radius without the right tools?

Las thing that pops to my mind: Do you think this guitar can handle .11 strings? I wanted to try them as I heard they sound great and also because I suspect using higher gauge string would help me with the wolf tone problem!

Glad it is working!

The 6 screws should be level. You can adjust the two if you need to, they look pretty good to me, in the latest photos.

The action (string height) is really just whatever you like. It doesn't have to be a set height. Same with the 1.6mm. If you like it where it is, leave it there. The height looks fine in the photos.

As for 11's. If you put them on you will have to adjust the 2 claw screws again to level the trem. Other than that, they could bind in the nut but usually don't if you are only going up to 11's. You can try it and see. They will make bending harder and will feel stiffer, but they won't hurt anything if you re-set the trem.

 

[justmund]

All great advice in this thread

One small observation from a fellow user of the metric system; the relief should be set at 0.25mm NOT 2mm (PRS setup guide says .010" = 0.254mm).

Highly recommended setting this first (and again if you change string gauge) then the bridge height (with the 2 x trem claw screws), then the action (with the 12 x saddle adjustment allen key grub screws). You'll just be chasing your tail otherwise