Help Me

[gush]

I've been messing with Help Me by Joni Mitchell, do any of you know what time signatures are used throughout the song?

I Google it and it says 4/4 at 81 BPM which it is but there are different time signatures within the song.

This is only to satisfy my curiosity. I'd like to know how to count it.

Thanks all!

 

[gush]

A few years ago a recreated music for a song that my friend was going to sing at a wedding.

I was beating my head against the wall because my music wasn't counting out correctly.

I broke down and bought the sheet music and found one measure of 2/4 time towards the end of the song.

??? Lol

 

[Alnus Rubra]

I don’t know the tune, maybe this might be of some help?

 

[Alnus Rubra]

Ok, so I’ve listened to the track.

I think what you’re hearing as time signature changes are offbeat/cross beat fills.

The vocals are quite syncopated in places, almost jazz-like in phrasing.

I’m gonna post this here if other wish to comment.

It’s a lovely song, thanks for bringing it to my attention.

 

[gush]

Ok, so I’ve listened to the track.

I think what you’re hearing as time signature changes are offbeat/cross beat fills.

The vocals are quite syncopated in places, almost jazz-like in phrasing.

I’m gonna post this here if other wish to comment.

It’s a lovely song, thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Its one of my favorite songs.

I Google it and it showed a portion of the music but not the part in question.

Google SAYS 4/4 81 BPM but I guarantee there is a measure or two of something other than 4/4.

Now it's driving me nuts!!!

 

[gush]

I don’t know the tune, maybe this might be of some help?

Right before return to Coda there is a 3/4 measure. This shows more than the one I Google.

Thanks

 

[Moondog Wily]

I think Alnus is right here! I have known this song nearly my whole life and never thought about it before (BTW, the whole album it is from, Court and Spark is legendary - double platinum and named #110 in Rolling Stone magazines top 500 rock albums ever) but I think she is vocally riffing over a 4/4 the whole time!! The syncopation of vocal phrasings could certainly lead one astray on the beats though at times!!! I might have to adapt this one from a male perspective and start playing it, I have always loved it!!!!

 

[gush]

I think Alnus is right here! I have known this song nearly my whole life and never thought about it before (BTW, the whole album it is from, Court and Spark is legendary - double platinum and named #110 in Rolling Stone magazines top 500 rock albums ever) but I think she is vocally riffing over a 4/4 the whole time!! The syncopation of vocal phrasings could certainly lead one astray on the beats though at times!!! I might have to adapt this one from a male perspective and start playing it, I have always loved it!!!!

Look at the dotted half note at the bottom......3/4 time!

The dotted half note is the only note in that measure. A dotted half is 3 beats.

 

[Moondog Wily]

Right before return to Coda there is a 3/4 measure. This shows more than the one I Google.

Thanks

I see what you are saying though, there are two spots in there that look to me like 5/4 (lines 5 and 9) in that sheet music! I will try playing through and see what it feels like!

 

[Alnus Rubra]

Right before return to Coda there is a 3/4 measure. This shows more than the one I Google.

Thanks

Glad to be of help.

My old man eyes missed that at first glance. Also it was a cheeky download (sharpen in tools) for research purposes, so the definition isn’t great.

Yeah I know excuses, excuses.

 

[Alnus Rubra]

I see what you are saying though, there are two spots in there that look to me like 5/4 (lines 5 and 9) in that sheet music! I will try playing through and see what it feels like!

I think Gush is right, there’s three beats in each of those bars.

 

[Moondog Wily]

Yeah, I guess those are 3/4 at the beginning of two of those measures, not 5/4! After counting the notes, makes sense!! Crazy Joni!!!

 

[Alnus Rubra]

Yeah, I guess those are 3/4 at the beginning of two of those measures, not 5/4! After counting the notes, makes sense!! Crazy Joni!!!

Use my “old man eyes” excuse Moondog, I think I got away with it

 

[Moondog Wily]

Use my “old man eyes” excuse Moondog, I think I got away with it

I know I qualify, just don't want to admit it!

 

[Alnus Rubra]

I know I qualify, just don't want to admit it!

Me neither, but the d@mn NHS keep sending me prostate tests through the post, so I know I’m old!

 

[gush]

I have a music friend that insisted this song is 4/4 throughout.

I politely asked her to check her sheet music a little closer. I also said that I'm prepared to be wrong but I was certain I was not.

She sent me screen shots of the sheet music she bought. There is more than one spot of 3/4 time sig on this song.

So there you go.........

 

[gush]

If anybody wants those screen shots I can text or email them.

 

[Moondog Wily]

If anybody wants those screen shots I can text or email them.

PM'ing you, would love to see the "official" sheet music, not for copyright infringement but for educational purposes!!!

 

[gush]

There has been a lot of debate about this song. Local, FB and forum friends alike.

The fact that it's not straight 4/4 is settled but what remains in question is what proper notation actually is?

In reality, it's just an exercise in mathematics. Jumping from 4/4 to 2/4 and back again further complicates things.

The sheet music my friend Nikki showed me indicates 4/4 and 2/4 throughout the entire song and 3/4 in key areas. The half measures are what makes it hard to figure out by ear because if you count it as 4/4 everything after that will be incorrect. Pretty cool stuff.