Help me decide on a core

Andy80

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Dec 1, 2013
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273
So I picked up a silver sky recently. Absolutely adore it. So much fun.

Prior to that I picked up an 09 SC245, which while it is a great guitar, the sound isn't doing it for me. I find it completely lacks the bottom end that my Gibsons give me. It plays beautifully, but it leaves me wanting more.

I'm considering trading it in for a new Core model, but not sure which way to go. I do know that I want a new core, as the used PRS guitars I've seen aren't grabbing my attention (frankly, I need the build time to save some money anyway).

Style of music is a cross between hard rock/a bit of metal/shoegaze/ambient. My other guitars are a Gibson R7 and a Custom shop LP Junior. (and the SS)
 
Sounds like you go your heart set on buying new. Get a Custom 22. The CU24 neck pickup placement will leaving you going back to your Gibsons. I'd go used CU22 (trem) 2011-2015 pref with one with 5708s. GIve the newer 8515 pickups a listen before you buy.
 
Hard to answer really. It’s a shame you don’t like the SC245, but I can understand your reference to the tonal difference with the R7. I play my SC245 more than the LP because it is far more comfortable. And I like it’s sound for what it is.

I would recommend a core that is more at the heart of PRS. CU24, 594, DGT, Santana. The best is to find a place you can try them all a few times. I would probably start with the DGT. It’s a nice meaty guitar and you get to keep two volumes.
 
Hard to answer really. It’s a shame you don’t like the SC245, but I can understand your reference to the tonal difference with the R7. I play my SC245 more than the LP because it is far more comfortable. And I like it’s sound for what it is.

I would recommend a core that is more at the heart of PRS. CU24, 594, DGT, Santana. The best is to find a place you can try them all a few times. I would probably start with the DGT. It’s a nice meaty guitar and you get to keep two volumes.

I tried a DGT recently. Very cool guitar (I absolutely love the control layout), somehow the pups were a bit harsh/bright for me.
 
Sounds like you go your heart set on buying new. Get a Custom 22. The CU24 neck pickup placement will leaving you going back to your Gibsons. I'd go used CU22 (trem) 2011-2015 pref with one with 5708s. GIve the newer 8515 pickups a listen before you buy.

Great option - the first time I heard 85/15's I did not like them, then I went back and tried them out more and ended up liking them a lot.
 
Sounds like you go your heart set on buying new. Get a Custom 22. The CU24 neck pickup placement will leaving you going back to your Gibsons. I'd go used CU22 (trem) 2011-2015 pref with one with 5708s. GIve the newer 8515 pickups a listen before you buy.

Actually can you expand on this a little? Are the pups on the CU24 closer together than the 22? Does the 22 play more like LP?
Also I love 5708's
 
You have to go and play some guitars.
I cant advise you because I don't play your sort of music. Others will advise you, but they are not you.

Play some guitars.
 
Exactly! There's a cool animation somewhere that explains this but yes the Neck pickup on a 24 fret sits further down and therefore has a slightly more trebily sound. I've heard that the "harmonic" not being directly over the pick up (as it it is in most 22 fret guitars) deprives these a bit of that rich "woman" tone that most people love. You cant get it totally the same on a 24 fret guitar.

(Fun fact: most SGs, while 22 frets, place the neck pickup roughly in this same place. This is why SG's and LP don't sound the same even with the same pickups. Look up the "tenon").


Are the pups on the CU24 closer together than the 22? Does the 22 play more like LP?
Also I love 5708's
 
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You have to go and play some guitars.
I cant advise you because I don't play your sort of music. Others will advise you, but they are not you.

Play some guitars.

Most definitely. I think the guitar that blew me away the most was the Experience Paul's guitar. Outstanding.
 
Exactly! There's a cool animation somewhere that explains this but yes the Neck pickup on a 24 fret sits further down and therefore has a slightly more
trebily sound. I've heard that the "harmonic" not being directly over the pick up (as it it is in most 22 fret guitars) deprives these a bit of that rich "woman" tone that most people love. You cant get it totally the same on a 24 fret guitar.

(Fun fact: most SGs, while 22 frets, place the neck pickup roughly in this same place. This is why SG's and LP don't sound the same even with the same pickups. Look up the "tenon").

Actually, the neck is longer and therefore the bridge and bridge Pick Up are pulled closer to the neck to keep the same scale length. Next time you get to check both a Custom 22 and Custom 24, you will see that the necks join the body at a different fret and as such, the Custom 24 bridge is moved closer to the neck which also means the Bridge Pick-up is also moved closer to the neck.

The effect is the same as the gap between neck and bridge is closer on a Custom 24 compared to the Custom 22 but its the bridge pick that us moved, not the neck. The advantage of moving the bridge Pick up rather than moving the neck to accommodate the extra 2 frets is that the frets are easier to reach - its easier to reach fret 22 on the custom 24 because of where the neck joins the body.

That only matters if you do play that far up the neck but the neck PU is the one that sounds different. As such I can understand why people assume that the neck PU is the one that's moved because that is the one that sounds different. That's because both the bridge and the bridge pick up are both moved towards the neck and as such, the position of the bridge PU is at the same position in relationship to the string. Moving the bridge (and nut because the neck is longer) has the same effect as moving just the neck backwards because its the position relative to the string which has changed because the nut was moved further away from the neck PU to accommodate the 2 extra frets and to keep the same scale, means the bridge is pulled closer to the neck which also means the bridge PU has to move too.

I hope that explains why its not the neck PU that moves.

I know that maybe pedantic but it does make a difference. If it was just the neck moving back and sticking 2 frets on to the end of the fretboard, those 2 frets would be more difficult to use because the body gets in the way. By making the neck a bit longer which them means the bridge and bridge PU are moved to keep the same scale length, this means that those 2 extra frets are usable and even using the 22nd fret is a bit easier on a Cu24. Therefore its not 'just' a different sound that the Custom 24 offers but a bit easier access to the higher frets. The feel is different too because the bridge is in a different position. You have to move your hand a bit closer to the neck if you like to rest your hand on the bridge. It might not be much but it does feel different to play because the guitar hangs but the bridge and nut are in a different position compared to a Custom 22.

Hope that this helps and clarifies everything, the physical differences between the 22 and 24 fret PRS and not just tonal differences
 
Here's the animation (post #3) that explains it. Genius work whomever did it:

https://forums.prsguitars.com/threads/custom-24-s2-vs-custom-22-s2.9152/



Actually, the neck is longer and therefore the bridge and bridge Pick Up are pulled closer to the neck to keep the same scale length. Next time you get to check both a Custom 22 and Custom 24, you will see that the necks join the body at a different fret and as such, the Custom 24 bridge is moved closer to the neck which also means the Bridge Pick-up is also moved closer to the neck.

The effect is the same as the gap between neck and bridge is closer on a Custom 24 compared to the Custom 22 but its the bridge pick that us moved, not the neck. The advantage of moving the bridge Pick up rather than moving the neck to accommodate the extra 2 frets is that the frets are easier to reach - its easier to reach fret 22 on the custom 24 because of where the neck joins the body.

That only matters if you do play that far up the neck but the neck PU is the one that sounds different. As such I can understand why people assume that the neck PU is the one that's moved because that is the one that sounds different. That's because both the bridge and the bridge pick up are both moved towards the neck and as such, the position of the bridge PU is at the same position in relationship to the string. Moving the bridge (and nut because the neck is longer) has the same effect as moving just the neck backwards because its the position relative to the string which has changed because the nut was moved further away from the neck PU to accommodate the 2 extra frets and to keep the same scale, means the bridge is pulled closer to the neck which also means the bridge PU has to move too.

I hope that explains why its not the neck PU that moves.

I know that maybe pedantic but it does make a difference. If it was just the neck moving back and sticking 2 frets on to the end of the fretboard, those 2 frets would be more difficult to use because the body gets in the way. By making the neck a bit longer which them means the bridge and bridge PU are moved to keep the same scale length, this means that those 2 extra frets are usable and even using the 22nd fret is a bit easier on a Cu24. Therefore its not 'just' a different sound that the Custom 24 offers but a bit easier access to the higher frets. The feel is different too because the bridge is in a different position. You have to move your hand a bit closer to the neck if you like to rest your hand on the bridge. It might not be much but it does feel different to play because the guitar hangs but the bridge and nut are in a different position compared to a Custom 22.

Hope that this helps and clarifies everything, the physical differences between the 22 and 24 fret PRS and not just tonal differences
 
If you can find a color that does it for you I woud look at a CU22 Special Semi Hollow
 
the Neck pickup on a 24 fret sits further down and therefore has a slightly more trebily sound. I've heard that the "harmonic" not being directly over the pick up (as it it is in most 22 fret guitars) deprives these a bit of that rich "woman" tone that most people love. You cant get it totally the same on a 24 fret guitar.
I've heard this said before, about the position of the harmonic in regards to the neck pickup, and I don't think I agree. I read an article by Ed Roman explaining why his guitars were so much better than everybody else's because of the position of his neck pickup (I think all his were 24 fret guitars, but can't remember the details) and I remember thinking the article was pure snake oil marketing BS. The position of the harmonic over the neck pickup of a 24 fret guitar only relates to the open string being played. As soon as you fret a note the string length is shortened and the harmonic position changes. Whether the pickup being positioned over the harmonic or not is a good thing is completely immaterial as soon as you start actually playing the guitar. The only thing you can say is that by moving the neck pickup back a bit you get a slightly brighter tone, which can be good thing if it does something to the sound that you like (can make it be a little less muddy sounding).
 
http://www.edroman.com/techarticles/scalelength.htm

I think this is the article that I read. All those guitar manufacturers so wrong!

"98% of all Gibson Guitars & all the PRS 22 fret models are built with this inherent mistake in the design. It is beyond me why they don't fix it. Gibson came out with a double cut Les Paul 10 years ago that addressed this problem but they discontinued it. I think they are simply afraid to point to this problem. It would be an admission of guilt. Gibson would never admit to making an error. especially one so grave and irrefutably wrong."

Such BS! There's more BS in the article. Their whole theory revolves around you only ever playing open strings and being concerned with the sound of the 4th mode shape of vibration, ignoring the 1st, 2nd and 3rd modes.
 
Here's the animation (post #3) that explains it. Genius work whomever did it:

https://forums.prsguitars.com/threads/custom-24-s2-vs-custom-22-s2.9152/

Which perfectly illustrates the point I was making in that its not the Neck pick-up that moves but the Bridge and Bridge Pick-up due to the longer neck. This does make it a bit easier to play fret 22 for example as its slightly further away from the body and the 'feel' is slightly different because of the bridge position and slightly longer neck - most notable I think when standing and using a Guitar strap. Maybe some won't really notice and make the adjustment naturally but I was just trying to give people the correct information.

If people are used to a Custom 22 and find fret 22 a little bit of a stretch because of where it sits in relation to the body, the heel etc, adding to frets to the end of the fretboard and moving the neck back may make people think those frets are 'pointless' because they can just about reach fret 22 let alone frets 23 and 24. A lot of guitarists also play with their hand on the bridge and just in front for muting with their picking hand but with a Custom 24, you have to move your hand a bit further to the neck and when its hanging on a strap, that feels more noticeably different - even if its only a small change.

As for the 'harmonic' which would be above the neck Pick-up for an open string on the Custom 22, it doesn't make a difference in my opinion. In general playing, how often do you ever use the 24th fret Harmonic? Even if you do, does it really make a massive difference - one that can be quantified? One that cannot be attributed to just the difference in tone that the position of the Neck Pick-Up has? If you play a Barre Chord on the 5th fret for example, the harmonic changes position anyway and would favour the Custom 24 over the Custom 22 if it made any 'significant' difference. Any difference tonally is down to the position of the neck relative to the bridge where the string 'starts'.

I think the Custom 22 is a bit more like a modern update to the Les Paul. It has a few more tonal options because of the 5-way and the Trem too of course. The Custom 24 is more of its own thing and the Guitar that launched PRS into the world. Its that classic in between the two 'big' icons that were PRS's competition in 85 and as such, its much more its own thing. If that sits midway, the Custom 22 is a bit more towards the Les Paul. If you want the 'ultimate' Custom 22, the PRS Special semi-hollow could well be the answer and the NF in the middle adds so much more than a LP offers - even if 3 of the 12 Pick-Up combinations are similar to the LP's 3 options.

Based on the fact the OP has a Les Paul and LP Jr, I think I would recommend either looking at the Cu24 (particularly the Cu24-08 or the Cu P24 the Piezo offers something 'extra' the OP doesn't have) or the PRS Special 22 Semi Hollow - its the most versatile PRS (excluding PS MEv) but also being a Limited Edition, something you ought to pick up sooner rather than later because they could be gone soon. I would recommend the PRS Special over any of the other Cu22. The other option I would recommend is the Hollowbody 2 if you fancied adding a Hollowbody to the collection. Its similar to the 594 - same PU's but also adds a Piezo if you wanted to add a bit more of an acoustic chime to your collection but haven't appeared to want a 'hollowbody', this is perhaps a more of left field recommendation.

I think the McCarty and McCarty 594 are certainly closer again to the Les Paul with the 594 being much closer to the Vintage LP than any PRS. It could replace the R7 or be too similar that you may not get the use out of it. The Signature series could offer something - the DGT (maybe too close to the R7 but has a Trem), The Tremonti (a more Rock/metal LP), Paul's (a bit like a LP maybe more P90ish on sound from the smaller humbuckers but great SC split) and of course the Santana too which could be a great alternative.

Based on what you have though, I think the Cu24-08, P24 or Special 22 would be a better fit to give you something different and add more to your tonal palette than any other core PRS. At the end of the day though, the OP ought to try the guitars themselves first and decide. My recommendations could be used to help the OP decide which guitars to look at, to try first. All that's left to say is good luck, enjoy your search and look forward to seeing your NGD post in the future...
 
http://www.edroman.com/techarticles/scalelength.htm

I think this is the article that I read. All those guitar manufacturers so wrong!

"98% of all Gibson Guitars & all the PRS 22 fret models are built with this inherent mistake in the design. It is beyond me why they don't fix it. Gibson came out with a double cut Les Paul 10 years ago that addressed this problem but they discontinued it. I think they are simply afraid to point to this problem. It would be an admission of guilt. Gibson would never admit to making an error. especially one so grave and irrefutably wrong."

Such BS! There's more BS in the article. Their whole theory revolves around you only ever playing open strings and being concerned with the sound of the 4th mode shape of vibration, ignoring the 1st, 2nd and 3rd modes.

It contradicts what most people assume with 22 fret guitars, that its better to have a Pick-up under that 24th fret 'dead spot'. Both can't be right ;) :D

Like you said though, it only works for open strings - whoever is right, because as soon as you start fretting notes, the position of that 'harmonic' OR 'dead spot' (as this article states) will move anyway. As far as I can hear, the difference between the bridge and the neck Pick up position is just the change you would expect. By that, I mean that the Cu24 neck PU is a bit more like the Bridge PU (i.e brighter) because its closer to the bridge than the Cu22 Pick-up.

The most relevant part of this is how far from the bridge a Pick Up is positioned. Both the Cu22 and Cu24 have the same distance from the bridge for their Bridge PU and why they sound the same. The neck PU on a Custom 22 is further from the bridge and as such, sounds different from the Neck PU on a Custom 24. Its no point counting from the Nut as that is the 'end' point which can be shortened by fretting. Therefore, you measure from the bridge - that's the starting point of the 'string' and its the position of the PU in relation to the strings starting point that determines how it will sound. The 'end' point of the string is only 25" (on a regular PRS) when playing an open string but you could fret the string 10" away from the 'start' but the one thing that stays consistent is the 'distance' the PU's are away from the bridge and that 'determines' how PU's will sound with each 'note' played - inc open string notes.
 
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