Help - How to get timing right with a Looper pedal?

[Dirty_Boogie]

New looper pedal user here. What's the best approach to recording and getting the loop with sound good without a short "gap" at the end before the loop repeats?

I'm using a TC Electronic "Wire Tap", which is as much a song/riff recorder and organizer, as it is a looper. But, I'm just using the basic looper functionality for now.

Thanks.

 

[rugerpc]

Sustain the last note and click stop on the first beat of the next measure.

 

[Huggy Love]

click stop on the first beat of the next measure.

There's a cat that uses loops to great effect that plays on Fishermans Wharf SF by my house, he showed me a few things about them and said using the pedal with the timing of a kick drum on starts and stops is vital.

 

[Dirty_Boogie]

Sustain the last note and click stop on the first beat of the next measure.

Thanks! That makes sense. And what if there's a gap at the start? How do you start your loops - click and play at exactly the same time? I can't figure out if the pause I'm hearing is at the start or the end of the loop.

 

[Dirty_Boogie]

There's a cat that uses loops to great effect that plays on Fishermans Wharf SF by my house, he showed me a few things about them and said using the pedal with the timing of a kick drum on starts and stops is vital.

I think I've seen that guy - serious talent!

 

[rugerpc]

In their most basic modes, loopers record time. They don't care whether there is a signal present or not.

Start you metrinome.
Start your looper on beat one.
Start playing where necessary even if it isn't on beat one.
Sustain last note. (or not if it isn't meant to go to the next measure.)
Stop looper on beat one of the next measure that follows the phrase or section.

The looper will have a loop for however many beats you ran it with playing and pauses as you played them.

Example:
If you have an 8 bar phrasing and the accompaniment you want to record only plays something in measure 2 and in measure 5, you have to record the whole 8 bars (ending on beat one of bar 9) with silence in bars 1, 3-4 and 6-8.

 

[bodia]

This guy does some amazing looping stuff. Something to aspire to!

 

[pac90]

Is he Canadian?

 

[bodia]

Is he Canadian?

Not sure where he is originally from. In Florida now.

 

[RaySachs]

Like anything else, practice... I got my first looper last summer, just a cheap ditto knockoff, just to see if a) I could work the damn thing and, b) assuming I could, would I like it. It took a while, but I learned to work it. But I was awful at first - didn't even totally conceptually GET the whole thing, at least with regards to overdubs and what not. Then I started nailing it more and more. Then I upgraded to a looper with memory - it'll store up to 100 loops. I think it also does something automatically to try to stitch your loops together because I have to REALLY miss now before I hear it. I can also set it to start when I start playing rather than when I kick it on and I find that really helpful too.

Bottom line, I was AWFUL at first. Then I got better sort of quickly. Now I'm actually pretty decent at it. And believe me, if I could get it, damn near anyone can!

-Ray

 

[shinksma]

Like anything else, practice... I got my first looper last summer, just a cheap ditto knockoff, just to see if a) I could work the damn thing and, b) assuming I could, would I like it. It took a while, but I learned to work it. But I was awful at first - didn't even totally conceptually GET the whole thing, at least with regards to overdubs and what not. Then I started nailing it more and more. Then I upgraded to a looper with memory - it'll store up to 100 loops. I think it also does something automatically to try to stitch your loops together because I have to REALLY miss now before I hear it. I can also set it to start when I start playing rather than when I kick it on and I find that really helpful too.

Bottom line, I was AWFUL at first. Then I got better sort of quickly. Now I'm actually pretty decent at it. And believe me, if I could get it, damn near anyone can!

-Ray

This.

It helps if you play the phrase/pattern once through from a dead stop without recording, then hit "record" when you are restarting your second pass, then hit record/stop when you are going to restart your third time. That way, as long as you are consistent in your timing, it isn't as critical as trying to start the loop from a deadstop without any gap at the front.

 

[Alnus Rubra]

This guy does some amazing looping stuff. Something to aspire to!

Free Ice Cream!

 

[Dirty_Boogie]

Like anything else, practice... I got my first looper last summer, just a cheap ditto knockoff, just to see if a) I could work the damn thing and, b) assuming I could, would I like it. It took a while, but I learned to work it. But I was awful at first - didn't even totally conceptually GET the whole thing, at least with regards to overdubs and what not. Then I started nailing it more and more. Then I upgraded to a looper with memory - it'll store up to 100 loops. I think it also does something automatically to try to stitch your loops together because I have to REALLY miss now before I hear it. I can also set it to start when I start playing rather than when I kick it on and I find that really helpful too.

Bottom line, I was AWFUL at first. Then I got better sort of quickly. Now I'm actually pretty decent at it. And believe me, if I could get it, damn near anyone can!

-Ray

What looper did you replace it with?

 

[RaySachs]

This.

It helps if you play the phrase/pattern once through from a dead stop without recording, then hit "record" when you are restarting your second pass, then hit record/stop when you are going to restart your third time. That way, as long as you are consistent in your timing, it isn't as critical as trying to start the loop from a deadstop without any gap at the front.

With mine, when I set it to start when I start playing, it makes that process kind of impossible, but OTOH, it avoids kicking the looper on a fraction too early or too late. So I set it to start automatically, and then just sort of count in and start playing, having already run through it enough to know where I'm going with it. Either way works, but I've sort of gotten used to the automatic start...

What looper did you replace it with?

I got a Boss RC-3. I think Digitech and Nux both make very similar models. They all have a zillion features that I'll never use, but the key thing they have in common is the ability to store loops, which I really find invaluable. I've got about 25-30 good loops saved in mine that I can play to whenever I want without having to go find backing tracks or something. And I also keep plenty of slots blank just to try new stuff. It also has a really rudimentary drum track capability, but I used it once and didn't really like it, so haven't touched it since... I'd start with a really basic one though, just to see if you even like it. I think the TC Ditto is kind of the classic simple looper, but I think it's about $100 and there are a zillion knockoffs on Amazon and Ebay that do the same basic thing for $40-50 that'll get you going and let you know if it's something you really want to spend time with before you sink much $$$ into it.

-Ray

 

[Hare Brain]

Lot of great advice here thanks all. As a beginner,
I'm now wondering this: if I want my first note to be on the first beat, would it help to actually play that first note last in the sequence? Or is there a better/ easier way?

 

[Jo-]

I sometimes make a drum beat loop scratching/thumping the guitar strings.
It’s not usually too loud and gets covered over with subsequent passes but it helps getting the loop timing right.

 

[alantig]

Some loopers can/will start when they detect the first note - not sure if the TC Electronics does that or not. I prefer to play through a measure or two first to let my timing settle - I find that to be easier than trying to sync the first downbeat w/the first note I play (I do the same thing recording - my first note is usually in measure 3 in the DAW to allow for a count off).

My Boss unit has built-in drum tracks (rarely use them) but it also has a tempo light. That can help as well.

 

[Maxime Bousquet]

I use a Pigtronix infinity looper, the features are very practical, it supports midi with the beatbuddy midi there is no drift loop after loop, I send the signal from the beatbuddy into a midi distribution box which gives the tempo to the looper and my AX FX and gives the tempo of delays and other effects. This has greatly helped me stay perfectly on time!

 

[aphantomvaper]

Learn to play through and not stop when you hit the pedal for the loop. Then its getting the footwork to tap at the right play.

As with everything, practice. Watch Keller Williams sometime.