Heads And Cabs Separated In Studio Room? How's That Working Out? A Report.

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Too Many Notes
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Apr 26, 2012
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As I've reported in past threads, I've got my heads and cabs separated, but they're in the same room. Originally, I did this because when I'm operating the gear by myself, and have the headphones on, and the guitar on, it's difficult to move to adjust the amps during a session because there are cables to trip over and get tangled up in. So I set up my rig with the amps within reach just to make adjustments easier while recording.

As a practical matter, however, if the heads were sitting on the cabs near me, it put the cabs too close even with headphones on, because there was just too much bleed into the headphones from the cabs. I couldn't tell which noise was coming into the headphones from the mics, and which noise was simply the acoustical roar from the cabs. So I moved the cabs to the other end of the room, which in my room is about 20 feet away from the workstation. This because every time the distance to a sound source is doubled, there is a 6 decibel drop in sound pressure level (this is a well known acoustic principle). Here's a shot of my setup:



In my old studio, I had a recording booth, and ran cables from the heads into the cabs in the booth. It worked great, and lots of session players do this in one form or another. But in my new studio, I don't have a booth. I did try putting the cabs in a large storage room I have that's adjacent to my studio area, but I wasn't thrilled with the sound in that area, it's unfinished space and sounds like a cavern. I may finish it, but...I dunno.

What I hadn't counted on was this, and it turns out to be a big help: When I sit down at the workstation with the cabs at that distance, before putting on the cans, I get a nice sense of the projection of the cabinets into the room, and it's easier to tweak the tone of the amp to my liking than it is with the cabs miked up in the recording booth was. Then, knowing the sound I dialed in -- because I'm in the same room -- I find it's easier to position the mics to get what I want to hear happening, and use gobos to better advantage when I need to do that, too.

Also, sitting at the workstation, my ears are lower and I'm closer to being in direct line with the projection of speakers' cones than if I was standing up and adjusting the amps right on top of the cabs.

So for the way I work, I think it's actually a better idea to do it this way than to have the more typically pro recording booth setup. Since it's so easy to do, I really recommend trying it this way. One more benefit - no tube microphonics from the heads sitting on vibrating cabs!

You need a long speaker cable, obviously. You might wonder whether that affects tone, and my findings are that with a good, moderately priced cable, it doesn't matter. To keep from tripping over the speaker cable, I got a couple of those rubber cable ramps.
 
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Are you running your mic cable in the same cable ramp as your amp signal cables?

Even with shielded/balanced cables there is a (very tiny) possibility of inducted noise from one to the other...
 
Are you running your mic cable in the same cable ramp as your amp signal cables?

Even with shielded/balanced cables there is a (very tiny) possibility of inducted noise from one to the other...

No, I run the mic cables into an eight channel floor box my tech made about 20 years ago, located on the opposite side of the room from the amp's speaker cables; the floor box is attached to my mic preamps by a 20 foot cable length, too. I'm very careful about proper cable dressing, and making sure that power, speaker, and signal cables don't run parallel to one another or next to one another.

I usually tuck the mic cables under the edges of the rug so folks don't trip over them as well.

In addition, all of the power cables in my studio to all of the gear are run from an isolation transformer with balanced AC outlets. Balanced power helps to prevent hum and noise being radiated into signal cables from power cables - when my tech last checked it with an oscilloscope, the noise floor in the system was about 8-10 decibels lower simply due to balanced power (which works like a balanced mic cable or humbucking pickup to reduce common mode noise).
 
good isolation!

When building out my office, the electrician wanted to use my low voltage cable runs as anchors for his AC line runs! After I explained inductive coupling to him (shouldn't he have known, being a licensed electrician?? ) I told him that he had to keep his runs at least 3 feet away from my phone and data lines and that he could only cross them at right angles.

***

As a side note, I offer Doc Ruger's easy to understand dB decoding system.

dB is a logarithmic scale - that makes it really hard - or does it??

Consider two value benchmarks that can make your life much easier when dealing with dB.

* A difference of 3 dB is +- 2x in decimal (double)
* A difference of 10 dB is +- 10x in decimal.

If you can keep 2 numbers in your head at any one time, you can do integer dB changes on the fly...

What is a 17 dB signal gain? Just add and subtract 3 and 10 until you get to 17...

10dB up is 10 times the original signal. (7 dB left to consider)
Another 10 dB up is another 10 times - we're at 100 times now. (but 3 dB over...)
Decrease 3 dB and we are 1/2 of 100 = 50 times the original signal and we are at 17 dB - Done!

17dB gain is 50 times the original signal.

Do it in your head and amaze your friends.
 
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Great. This is useless to me. If I could use it to amaze strangers, that would be fine, but I have no friends.

But back to my main topic for a moment...

I have a new project coming in and I'm fixin' to try some new recording techniques. I'll report on progress even though you have no friends.
 
Great. This is useless to me. If I could use it to amaze strangers, that would be fine, but I have no friends.

Must

Resist

Obvious

Joke...


But seriously, it doesn't help to be able to figure out that when Les says his isolation efforts have reduced his noise floor 8-10 dB, that that means the noise floor is 6.25 to 10 times lower?
 
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Evidently I'm the only person in the universe who cares about this topic...In any case, I'm going to continue on.

For a long time I figured, it's not so important hearing the cab in the room, it's more important hearing how the close mic sounds that's on the cab. Find the sweet spot for the mic on the speaker cone, and you're good to go. And in part, that's not bad thinking! But there's also something to setting things up to sound good in the room, and then going about capturing that with mic placement, etc. Or maybe blending the two.

I think there's an inherent balance that can be struck between mic-on-cab and cab-in-room that I've been trying to explore more. Hence, the intent of this thread, jokesters aside.
 
Have you experimented with blending the sound from 2 mics - one on the cab and maybe a ribbon somewhere in the room off the cab to get the room sound?
 
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Have you experimented with blending the sound from 2 mics - one on the cab and maybe a ribbon somewhere in the room off the cab to get the room sound?

Yes, many times. It is a great sound. I've also close-miked with 2 mics. But I'm trying out some other ideas in the next few weeks, too. I'll post pictures and clips.

One plan is to mic the cab in stereo with 2 small diaphragm condensers. I've gotten some good results stereo room miking in the past, but this will be a little different, that's all I'm going to say for now - gotta see if it works well, first.
 
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Can't comment much on your situation in terms of recording. What I can say, is that I dial in my amp to sound good to me in our rehearsal room. My pedalboard is about 15 ft from my 4x12s. The cabs have a slight slant up(Bogner straight cabs). Now, a lot of that sound is blowing at my waistline. I'm also miked up and very slightly running through the PA, mostly just for a little clarity. Our bass player uses an 8x10 and fills the room. I depend a little bit on both those sounds. We record rehearsal with a Zoom Q3HD for just audio. Between the mic thru the PA and my rig, it records pretty nicely. Take away either(like mute me thru the PA or take my cabs outta the room and have only miked sound) and it would sound completely different. We'd probably have to adjust levels quite a bit somewhere. Coincidentally, when I track in the studio, I don't need to change much. My cabs are in ISO booths there. Dual mics on the cabs, both fairly close miked. My core tone is pretty good right outta the gates for most situations. Usually not a lot needs to be done. In other studios I've done some combo miking, close+some distance on another mic. I had good results that way too. There's lots of ways to skin a cat(why would someone actually skin a cat? gross.) and I liked your last clip of the old school mic technique using some distance. I think there's sonic advantages to both techniques and combining often gives the best representation IMO.
Evidently I'm the only person in the universe who cares about this topic...In any case, I'm going to continue on.

For a long time I figured, it's not so important hearing the cab in the room, it's more important hearing how the close mic sounds that's on the cab. Find the sweet spot for the mic on the speaker cone, and you're good to go. And in part, that's not bad thinking! But there's also something to setting things up to sound good in the room, and then going about capturing that with mic placement, etc. Or maybe blending the two.

I think there's an inherent balance that can be struck between mic-on-cab and cab-in-room that I've been trying to explore more. Hence, the intent of this thread, jokesters aside.
 
The most important issue here is what are these "rubber cable ramps" of which you write, and where do GE em?

A few months ago I put my 2x12 horizontal reco cabinet about 1 metre off the ground and it's made a massive difference, but I am still finding out so much about this stuff. I've discovered I can hear the speaker far more clearly, relative the backing track monitor mix at a 3 metre distance rather than up close where it just blends in.
 
Google "cable ramp" and hit the shopping tab.

mega-duct.jpg


floor-cord-protector__1.jpg
 
Can't comment much on your situation in terms of recording. What I can say, is that I dial in my amp to sound good to me in our rehearsal room. My pedalboard is about 15 ft from my 4x12s. The cabs have a slight slant up(Bogner straight cabs). Now, a lot of that sound is blowing at my waistline. I'm also miked up and very slightly running through the PA, mostly just for a little clarity. Our bass player uses an 8x10 and fills the room. I depend a little bit on both those sounds. We record rehearsal with a Zoom Q3HD for just audio. Between the mic thru the PA and my rig, it records pretty nicely. Take away either(like mute me thru the PA or take my cabs outta the room and have only miked sound) and it would sound completely different. We'd probably have to adjust levels quite a bit somewhere. Coincidentally, when I track in the studio, I don't need to change much. My cabs are in ISO booths there. Dual mics on the cabs, both fairly close miked. My core tone is pretty good right outta the gates for most situations. Usually not a lot needs to be done. In other studios I've done some combo miking, close+some distance on another mic. I had good results that way too. There's lots of ways to skin a cat(why would someone actually skin a cat? gross.) and I liked your last clip of the old school mic technique using some distance. I think there's sonic advantages to both techniques and combining often gives the best representation IMO.

Sounds like you have your situation very well in hand. And you're right, there are lots of ways to achieve great results!

The most important issue here is what are these "rubber cable ramps" of which you write, and where do GE em?

A few months ago I put my 2x12 horizontal reco cabinet about 1 metre off the ground and it's made a massive difference, but I am still finding out so much about this stuff. I've discovered I can hear the speaker far more clearly, relative the backing track monitor mix at a 3 metre distance rather than up close where it just blends in.

Yup, that's pretty much what I'm talking about.

What Ruger posted is exactly what I mean by cable ramp, to keep people from tripping on the speaker cables. Unfortunately, due to the positioning of gear in my studio, the speaker cables have to cross in front of the door to the studio (in fact, in the picture I posted the studio door is closed, but if you look hard at the bottom of the door, you can see my cables and cable ramp). So I use a cable ramp. So far, it's worked, though it looks a little low-rent.

I did consider having the wiring run in the ceiling, and fished through the walls to wall plates with jack panels, but my local electrical code would also require the installation of metal conduit, and I have changed my studio layout often enough that I decided that ugly cable ramps would be a better idea.

I'm pretty sure that a more attractive and permanent solution will come at some point, but in 26 years of having a studio, I have yet to utter the words, "Well, my studio is all done now." LOL!
 
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Google "cable ramp" and hit the shopping tab.

mega-duct.jpg


floor-cord-protector__1.jpg


Great for when you get tired of snagging your feet on your cables...

I don't do any real room miking, although I may try it. I have done multiple mics on a cab, blending to taste. I think I may have even blended a cab mic w/my Cab Clone. I pretty much dial the amp in where I need it and close mic it.
 
Must

Resist

Obvious

Joke...
Ive heard of "sitting on your thumbs" but "the stranger" requires more coverage. :biggrin:

Les, I've gone to setting the head on the floor in front of the cab (which is usually on a stand). Isolating the power tubes from the bass onslaught improves their life. Either tubes are more sensitive or this amp is a beast...or both! But the results speak for themselves. RFI/EMI isolation aside, it's very good.
 
Evidently I'm the only person in the universe who cares about this topic...In any case, I'm going to continue on.

Not at all. Look how many views the thread has. But this is not The Gear Page, where people act like experts about things they've never done or heard. ;) I read these threads multiple times to try to learn more. I am a sound man at a big church, and I have mic'd guitar amps and other instruments for years, for live and recording purposes. But at home, I don't have the space or level of recording gear that you do. A lot of the stuff I've recorded in the past was direct. Yes, I've had Mesa Boogie, Budda, PRS, etc. amps and the last 4 things I recorded were with a POD HD. It was simpler and got the job done. Mic'd my Taylor for the last acoustic thing I did though.

But I will record a mic'd amp before long, and I always read these type threads. Just don't want to go pretending to be some expert when I'm not.
 
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Ive heard of "sitting on your thumbs" but "the stranger" requires more coverage. :biggrin:

Les, I've gone to setting the head on the floor in front of the cab (which is usually on a stand). Isolating the power tubes from the bass onslaught improves their life. Either tubes are more sensitive or this amp is a beast...or both! But the results speak for themselves. RFI/EMI isolation aside, it's very good.

Not a bad way to go, except, well, you know, at my age (873) I can't bend over that far to adjust the controls any more. ;)

Not at all. Look how many views the thread has. But this is not The Gear Page, where people act like experts about things they've never done or heard. ;)

Heck Dream, feel free to join in any of my threads anyway, no expertise required! Just glad to have folks to talk with!
 
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I've not put a head on my 4x12's in a solid 10-11 years. It's just better for everything IMO, from tube life to vibration, noise, etc. At home I'll put it on a cab, but I'm not blaringly loud there either.
 
Not a bad way to go, except, well, you know, at my age (873) I can't bend over that far to adjust the controls any more. ;)!
Oh Les, your tone controls are your guitar volume knob and your hands. *face-palm* The effects of anesthesia must still be wearing off. :biggrin: I haven't adjusted the tone controls on my amp in a year.

You know, I was thinking, Les...you need a Vela. I imagine that it would sound fantastic with the DG30 and would be a stark contrast to what you have now. You should go get one. Go ahead, we'll wait...make it a sea foam green one, too. Not an antique white one, that's what I want.
 
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