Have tuners... ever changed your tone?

Casi1

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Hey Guys,

If I change out my tuners, might that significantly change my tone?

I’ve got two guitars with same tuners, same model guitars, same wood type (body and neck), same bridge hardware, same strings, etc... and both guitars sound thin and ‘tinny’. The bridge is stainless steel, saddles are brass.

The tuner hardware that touches the string is always metal, correct? Even if the rest of the tuner is crappity crap?

If it’s not the tuner, maybe it’s the neck
 
It depends on your definition of "significantly" and how sensitive your ears are to changes in sound.

Paul can hear the difference between the extra mass of the screw on a locking tuner and taking the chrome plating off the post.

If you have tuners that are poorly built that's going to affect the transmission of vibration to the headstock even if the post itself is metal, plastic between that and the wood is going to make a difference.

That said, "significant" is going to be up to you.
 
Interesting question. Yes, the bit that touches the string is always metal (I’m treating classical guitars or other slotted peghead guitars as irrelevant to the question).

I really think swapping tuners would make a marginal difference at best. I say this knowing PRSh prefers vintage, non-locking tuners - the difference he believes is there is likely not noticeable to most of us. Just a minuscule piece of the ‘everything matters’ rules of tone.

What might add up to a difference is the degree to which to post the string connects to having a tighter bond to the headstock, and through that the neck.

Could be an interesting science project though.
 
Hey Guys,

If I change out my tuners, might that significantly change my tone?

I’ve got two guitars with same tuners, same model guitars, same wood type (body and neck), same bridge hardware, same strings, etc... and both guitars sound thin and ‘tinny’. The bridge is stainless steel, saddles are brass.

The tuner hardware that touches the string is always metal, correct? Even if the rest of the tuner is crappity crap?

If it’s not the tuner, maybe it’s the neck

As with all guitars that don't possess adequate tone, my mantra is to adjust (raise) the pickup height and test as you adjust. A lot of how a guitar tone will sound is based off of this, and adjusting the pickup height will improve the guitar's tone (especially if it's a humbucker pickup guitar).

I'd at least try this no-cost technique instead of spending good money on parts. See if the results don't improve your guitar's tone, and then consider a parts swap.
 
It depends on your definition of "significantly" and how sensitive your ears are to changes in sound.

Paul can hear the difference between the extra mass of the screw on a locking tuner and taking the chrome plating off the post.

If you have tuners that are poorly built that's going to affect the transmission of vibration to the headstock even if the post itself is metal, plastic between that and the wood is going to make a difference.

That said, "significant" is going to be up to you.

Yeah I’m thinking ‘significant’ as in if I take 3 regular joes, set up an amp, set up a guitar, have each play the same chord, then change tuners on guitar, give guitar back to the joes, make no changes to anything else, play same chord, would the joes hear that something is different.
 
As with all guitars that don't possess adequate tone, my mantra is to adjust (raise) the pickup height and test as you adjust. A lot of how a guitar tone will sound is based off of this, and adjusting the pickup height will improve the guitar's tone (especially if it's a humbucker pickup guitar).

I'd at least try this no-cost technique instead of spending good money on parts. See if the results don't improve your guitar's tone, and then consider a parts swap.

Yes, what’s odd is that these two guitars have different pickups (and the pickups are at different heights) but the guitars produce the same ‘tinny’ tone.

Originally, they both had die cast saddles on steel plates... so I put brass saddles on one... but the ‘tinny’ sound remained constant on both. That’s why I’m thinking the tone is related to the neck/hardware.

I’m going to get a new neck for one of the guitars later this year (since I’ve finally figured out the Musikraft formula that’s closest to my favorite PRS neck!) so I may have to do a science experiment with original tuners vs new heavier tuners on the new neck.
 
In my experience, these three won't be able to tell the difference between neck and bridge pickup sounds...

Lol, okay, I’m going to pick 3 regular joes from the musicians at Paisley Park. Whoever is playing guitar in Studio A the next time I visit is who I’m going to choose. They should know neck from bridgey bridge. Or at least I hope so. If they can’t, then the world is doomed.
 
I’m going to weigh the original tuners. I suspect that they are lightweight.
 
Lol, okay, I’m going to pick 3 regular joes from the musicians at Paisley Park. Whoever is playing guitar in Studio A the next time I visit is who I’m going to choose. They should know neck from bridgey bridge. Or at least I hope so. If they can’t, then the world is doomed.
I still think the answer is no.
Maybe one of the engineers would, or would claim to in order to demonstrate the value they add to the recording process.
 
I’m going to weigh the original tuners. I suspect that they are lightweight.

It's not about weight. Paul and others think lighter tuners sound better, all other things being equal.

Cheap tuners can be .. "loose" ... for lack of a better term. You want the tuners to be tight and transfer all the energy to the headstock without absorbing any.

I noticed that Paul went from large brass tuning buttons, to small brass ones, back to large, but aluminum, plastic or wood to save weight. Same goes for exposing the gears (which also has the side effect of looking really cool).

The current thinking is tuners should be light, tight and hard/stiff materials.
 
What guitar will get a new neck?

These are both non-PRS guitars. I’ve had them modified, but they are modified in exactly the same ways (except for different pickups) by the same luthier.

The experiment will include putting a new neck on the one with brass saddles, installing original tuners. Test. Record. Then replacing the tuners with heavier locking tuners. Test. Record.
 
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It's not about weight. Paul and others think lighter tuners sound better, all other things being equal.

Cheap tuners can be .. "loose" ... for lack of a better term. You want the tuners to be tight and transfer all the energy to the headstock without absorbing any.

I noticed that Paul went from large brass tuning buttons, to small brass ones, back to large, but aluminum, plastic or wood to save weight. Same goes for exposing the gears (which also has the side effect of looking really cool).

The current thinking is tuners should be light, tight and hard/stiff materials.

Yeah, I’m going to bet that Paul’s ears are more finely tuned than mine are. Some things that he loves, I despise, lol... but I won’t name those things. I just know that all of the tuners on my core PRS instruments are heavier than these. Now these are different guitars, different levels of quality, different woods from the PRSi.

The original tuners keep the guitars in tune just fine. They are tight.

If this turns out to not be the tuners, then I’d think it has to be the neck itself... which it could be. Other than the neck, what else could it be... nothing else is the same on the guitars.
 
Lol, okay, I’m going to pick 3 regular joes from the musicians at Paisley Park. Whoever is playing guitar in Studio A the next time I visit is who I’m going to choose. They should know neck from bridgey bridge. Or at least I hope so. If they can’t, then the world is doomed.
You gonna get their attention by yelling out, “hey, joe”? :p
 
Maybe you should see how smart they are and play it. Chances are, if they respond, they’ll be smart enough to answer your question!

Are there people in the world who don’t know ‘Hey Joe’?

:eek:
 
Who me? Have you thought about the nut? Changing both fit and material can make a difference. My luthier and I just had a discussion about string resonance, and how having the action too low can cause you to lose the first harmonic on much of the neck. On my PRS I can pick a note on a string, let’s say octave B on the B string and clearly hear the first harmonic.
 
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