Hard tail VS hard tail

[Tremontinator]

Ok, gents, help me out here


When buying a PRS, which is better

ABR1 style
Wrap-Around Stop style


Tonal differences are minor at best across most brands, and negligible across the rest. IMHO of course.


What I'm trying to find out, is which bridge style is better for set up and tuning stability?

I know that plenty of one piece bridges are useless for dialing in that perfect set up which means the intonation is jacked up.

I also know that the general guitar community's opinion is that even the best 2 piece bridge isn't as adjustable as say a Fender style trem.

I want full adjustability. Action string length and intonation. I want the ability to adjust the bridge to compensate for various tunings as well as string gages.


I also want the damn thing to stay in freakin tune.

That was the great thing about my SG. Pick it up, tune it, play for hours on end, and it stayed perfectly in tune.


Now, if you lads will excuse me, there's guitar porn on YouTube that I must view.

G'night

 

[dmatthews]

I'm a fan of the one piece wrap around ala McCarty/Mira etc.
It's simple, has no parts to screw up and works well. The new Pauls core and SE add the brass notches to this design. Gotta be a reason for that.

 

[jvin248]

.

If you want a 'set and forget' guitar you can gig at the bar with then a wrap tail is best.
If you are fussy and recording over and over in the studio then you might want saddles you can mess with -- and maybe fanned frets plus a nut that intonates plus weeks of testing different strings.

Wise wisdom from some folks somewhere in time
"Close Enough For Country",
"Close Enough For Rock 'n Roll"

Some like to go with huge strings and run out of intonation space on anything but a Tele.

.

 

[Tremontinator]

I hate country music >.<

 

[Bill SAS 513]

I'm a fan of both...but to help out....the wrap arounds should be perfectly fine for "normal" sets...(9-42, 10-46, 11-49 type sets) but after that, say, a super fat low E, etc...there may be problems...but that occurs with many bridges.
With certain gauges, you can never back the saddle enough to intonate perfectly (down to the bug on the gnat's butt hair, or .0001 micro-byte, blah blah blah)

I have both types of bridges (wrap, and 2 pc) and they are great with me. All either 10-46 or 11-49 (Grissom) ... para-phrase above: "Close enough for gubmint work"

Silly story...(from me, right???!!!)...at the music store where I work, there is a customer that comes in once a year or so, with his own super duper strobe tuner. He spends (seems like days) time checking a couple guitars (PRS, plus many others), and reports back to us which ones aren't tune-able. Truth is, no guitar will stay perfectly in tune all the way up the neck...they are an imperfect instrument.

 

[Tremontinator]

Truth is, no guitar will stay perfectly in tune all the way up the neck...they are an imperfect instrument.

Right?!

I'm just looking for the absolute best possible bridge here.

I want to be able to take my low E down to a B, or tune to drop D, down a whole step, maybe even go to C standard.

I'm currently running 9-42s but, eventually, I'm going to go back up to a 10-48, and possibly all the way to a 10-52 set.

I play 98% standard tuning but, well, y'all know how it is

 

[jak3af3r]

I have the wrap around on my McCarty. I set it up once to get the action where I like it and have never had to touch the bridge or the truss rod since that day over 5 years ago.

 

[László]

Speaking only for myself, the main reason to distinguish between the two bridges is for tone, since many years of PRS playing have convinced me that the one piece wrap tail intonates extremely well.

PRS also makes an adjustable wrap bridge, if that’s a concern.

While the tone differences aren’t huge, they are there. Maybe it’s because the two-piece bridge attaches to the wood at four points instead of two, and therefore transmits vibration to the body of the guitar differently.

The two-piece Core PRS bridge has the practical advantage of being the easiest bridge to change strings on that I’ve ever used, since there’s no threading through little holes. The L-shaped slots are easier to work with. It’s a wonderful design, and typical of PRS’ attention to detail.

I like both bridges for different reasons.

 

[Wakester]

I put a Gotoh Adjustable Wrap around on my SE SC245 and it is rock steady stable. It is fully intonatable and locks in place vertically and horizontally. It was Very inexpensive and installed directly into the factory body inserts.

 

[Huggy Love]

Truth is, no guitar will stay perfectly in tune all the way up the neck...they are an imperfect instrument.

This, I've even read somewhere that you can set the intonation on a guitar to where it intonates better in the middle of the neck, down at first position, or up at the 12th fret, just by using slightly flat or sharp harmonics at the 12th while making adjustments.

 

[jak3af3r]

This, I've even read somewhere that you can set the intonation on a guitar to where it intonates better in the middle of the neck, down at first position, or up at the 12th fret, just by using slightly flat or sharp harmonics at the 12th while making adjustments.

Not to dive too far into intonation procedures, using a harmonic for intonation is pointless unless the tuner reads the harmonic better that the fundamental. The harmonic at the 12th fret is a mathematically double the fundamental Hz. What I do to get it done quickly and accurately is tune to pitch, fret at the 12, then somewhere higher like 17, and adjust accordingly.

On the subject of imperfect intonation, even a piano cannot be in tune with itself because we use the 12 tones, equally tempered system (12TET for short). What this does is divide the octave into 12 equally spaced intervals which makes the major 3rd sharp. As an experiment, you can tune all the strings to A440, play an "E" Shape bar chord. Listen carefully to the note on the G string. Then start to detune that note until it sounds "sweet." After that play an "A" shape bar chord and the not on the G string will be really flat.

Or if you don't like the way I've loosely explained this, look up "Just intonation." Wild stuff.

 

[Huggy Love]

Not to dive too far into intonation procedures, using a harmonic for intonation is pointless unless the tuner reads the harmonic better that the fundamental. The harmonic at the 12th fret is a mathematically double the fundamental Hz. What I do to get it done quickly and accurately is tune to pitch, fret at the 12, then somewhere higher like 17, and adjust accordingly.

On the subject of imperfect intonation, even a piano cannot be in tune with itself because we use the 12 tones, equally tempered system (12TET for short). What this does is divide the octave into 12 equally spaced intervals which makes the major 3rd sharp. As an experiment, you can tune all the strings to A440, play an "E" Shape bar chord. Listen carefully to the note on the G string. Then start to detune that note until it sounds "sweet." After that play an "A" shape bar chord and the not on the G string will be really flat.

Or if you don't like the way I've loosely explained this, look up "Just intonation." Wild stuff.

Before you go using words like "pointless" and such, please understand a great portion of the guitar repair industry uses harmonics when setting intonation.

These are just 2 references that only took seconds to find.

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/how-to-set-your-electric-guitars-intonation/

https://www.guitarrepairbench.com/electric-guitar-repairs/adjust-intonation-electric-guitar/
(*this one also mentioned setting intonation for specific parts of the neck, though can't find the more detailed article I read before.)

 

[jak3af3r]

Before you go using words like "pointless" and such, please understand a great portion of the guitar repair industry uses harmonics when setting intonation.

These are just 2 references that only took seconds to find.

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/how-to-set-your-electric-guitars-intonation/

https://www.guitarrepairbench.com/electric-guitar-repairs/adjust-intonation-electric-guitar/
(*this one also mentioned setting intonation for specific parts of the neck, though can't find the more detailed article I read before.)

Pointles may be harsh. The point being playing the string open and a harmonic is going to yield the same tuning because the harmonic is a perfect mathematical ratio of the fundamental (open string).

If my understanding of the method is incorrect, I apologize. I've seen too many using BOTH open AND harmonics. Personal preference really but it saves time to do one or the other.

PRS has such good quality, setting the intonation should be spot on all over the neck because they've done such a good job with the fret spacing.

 

[AP515]

PRS has such good quality, setting the intonation should be spot on all over the neck because they've done such a good job with the fret spacing.

Well yes and no. The fret spacing is technically correct across the fretboard, but that does not mean the intonation will be perfect. Even with perfect spacing, the intonation is still a compromise. The problem is trying to fit 6 strings with different frequency ranges into the same scale length. Even multi-scale fretboards are a compromise, just not as much of one.

 

[László]

Well yes and no. The fret spacing is technically correct across the fretboard, but that does not mean the intonation will be perfect. Even with perfect spacing, the intonation is still a compromise. The problem is trying to fit 6 strings with different frequency ranges into the same scale length. Even multi-scale fretboards are a compromise, just not as much of one.

Right.

Even a piano can’t be perfectly in tune, despite its numerous strings. Certain intervals still have to be ‘stretched’ in any equal-tempered tuning (such as today’s standard tunings).

Just Intonation created problems when keys were changed; some chords sounded sour. Even today, hearing an orchestra on antique instruments playing in Just Intonation can seem jarring.

 

[Tremontinator]

Fellers,
What about bridges??

 

[AP515]

Fellers,
What about bridges??

Try them both, pick one...

 

[László]

Fellers,
What about bridges??

Depends on the guitar, really. I like the two-piece PRS bridge a lot. But the wrap bridge with the brass inserts that came on my McCarty a couple of years back sounded great, and had as close to perfect intonation as I’ve experienced.

 

[merciful-evans]

Ok, gents, help me out here
When buying a PRS, which is better

ABR1 style
Wrap-Around Stop style


What I'm trying to find out, is which bridge style is better for set up and tuning stability?


G'night

The Wrap Around (Les said it best)

Fellers,
What about bridges??

The best bridge of all IMO (will also adjust string spacing)

 

[bodia]

I am completely happy with any PRS bridge, and the MannMade. If it's an SE, it's getting a MannMade. I have it on a couple of Core guitars, as well. Ted and Cu22. I went to 7s on the Ted and needed the adjustable saddles. I've since gone back to 9s, but left the MannMade on it.