Guitar playing weaknesses

[Tremontinator]

Yes, and if you really aren't progressing, someone probably needs to see it in person to see if they can analyze what the issue is. Giving someone tips on the internet is impossible because we can't see where the issue is.

When you say you just can't get better, or should be better, what would "better" be for you? Faster? Cleaner? Switch chords better? Or, are you just literally having trouble playing riffs or scales even at slow speeds? What is it that you think you should be better at?

I should be cleaner faster and able to copy/paste/regurgitate some solos.

Should be able to play some faster riffs, too.

Mark Tremonti obviously
Bullets
One Day Remains
Metalingus
White Knuckles (haven't even tried)

The riff to Cowboys From Hell is too fast. Lots of Dime's riffs are going by too fast

The entire solo from Freebird. I can stumble my way through the first 30 seconds and then comes this blinding fast part

b-18p15------15-18p15------15
g------------17-----------------17

That repeats so damn fast. And I can't help screwing up the picking pattern. It comes off a lick in the high e so, I'll up stroke, up, down, and then my hand does another down stroke when I want to go up. Every time I practice it slow, it's fine. Speed up the metronome, and it's fine. Bump right up against album tempo, and can't break through.

Come back the next day, and the picking falls apart again.


The breakdown/bridge/middle eight/whatever you like to call it, from Back In Black is too fast. And then I get about halfway through the solo when it gets too fast.

I can play the solo to You Shook Me All Night Long and the main solo on Highway To Hell

Johnny B Goode is too fast


I think you get the point.


I realize y'all can't just diagnose it without seeing and hearing it but, can you point me in the right direction to be able to diagnose my own problems?




Also, somebody mentioned Pebber Brown. That guy talks down to and makes fun of people who ask him for help on his blog. And he's supposedly this really great teacher.
I tried to call him out for it but, couldn't post without an account on his site. Arrogant prick.

As soon as I heard people somewhere talking about him like he was a teaching God, I searched him. Total douchefag. Really disappointed me. I figured well, what's the point in asking him for help? He'll just try to talk down to me and belittle me. Prick.

Oh, and his great answer to somebody asking highly technical questions: "practice". Lazy cop out answer. I couldn't even understand the questions the guy was asking so, I knew it would require a long drawn out answer with complex explanations and analogies.
Nope. Treated the student like an idiot and then said practice.

Dude's a dick headed prick

</Rant>

 

[11top]

Have you tried Pebber Brown? I hear the guy can really prick, er I mean pick, a guitar.

 

[CandidPicker]

Duuuude...
That's heavy

It's actually a true story, part of my experience as a guitarist.

YMMV, but it will certainly be your own experience if and when you choose to jam with others in your local region at open-mics...my experience was indeed enjoyable; I made a few friends and more acquaintances who were of like-mind regards music.

While life was often summed up in Van Morrison's song, "Into the Mystic," it helped me see the fact that I, like others, don't know a lot about life, until we begin asking questions, just like when we were children asking our parents about our world around us. Music, like life, is very much a mystery until we learn about it with questions.

THAT'S heavy.

I also must empathize with your frustration with certain teachers. Pink Floyd warned us about certain teachers who lorded it over their students. I'd just not listen to that type of teacher and locate one who is friendlier and cares about his students...?

The better option is to research a good local college-musically trained instructor who understands what you wish to accomplish with your practice and playing, and how both of you can work towards that goal. Another option is online:

Tim Pierce is a good teacher who is friendly and supportive, and you can sign up for lessons from his channel (some free, some a subscription) here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOiLMDayizHVJUSLPauoLQQ

Also, Brett Papa:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoMrOn8Vgd7sglHxF3AAyNA

 

[László]

When I was a lad learning classical piano, my teacher had me get a metronome, and play a part very, very, very slowly. I’d do that until I could play it through without mistakes, and then increase the speed a tiny bit. Kept doing this in increments. After a few weeks I could play the part very fast as I built both speed and muscle memory.

It takes patience, but it truly works. Metronomes are cheap, readily available, and they’re part of classical music learning because they absolutely work if you want to develop speed.

I agree with finding a teacher who’s good at teaching the style you want to play.

Finally, a word about why a 9 year old kid can play dazzlingly well, and you find it more difficult: studies have shown that virtuosos have generally gotten a good chunk of the way there well before reaching puberty.

Turns out the brain starts becoming less able to learn an instrument and music as early as 12-14. The synapses and neural pathways are apparently more receptive in very young people; it’s similar to how learning language is also easier for kids - as shown in multilingual households, and by the very fact that kids pick up their native language very early, while adults have a much harder time learning a language if they move to another country.

Part of virtuousity is talent, of course - no one’s figured out how to magically create that - but part of it’s how old you are when you start the instrument. They found that talented older children who start at 12 and up can get very good, but develop skills more slowly and can’t achieve virtuosity as often.

This makes sense to me. I started piano at 4. A keyboard is like an extension of my hand, it’s so natural to play. I’m pretty fast. If I think it, I can play it. I began guitar at 17. While I can be musical with it, and have put in zillions of hours, it will always feel unnatural, like I’m stumbling around, compared to a keyboard.

There’s also the fact that some folks are better at “small motor” skills with their fingers, like drawing and playing music, and some are better at “large motor” skills, like athletics.

So what I’d do is get a metronome (or a drum machine, same concept), and use it by starting so slowly your brain melts, and gradually build up speed. Repetition and patience are things of beauty. But accept the fact that the parts you’re learning were created by very fine players with dazzling chops, and cut yourself some slack.

 

[László]

I forgot, there’s one more piece of unwanted advice...I’ll start with a story.

I have a close friend who’s a terrific orchestral flute player, learned that as a kid; but as an adult got into guitar, and was trying to learn these incredibly difficult jazz parts, and becoming enormously frustrated, to the point that sometimes after a few bars (that he actually played pretty well), he’d get all tangled up and become incredibly angry, and simply stop playing the tune.

Watching this every time we’d get together, I finally asked him why he was torturing himself; why not play something simpler?

Long story short, he started playing the simpler rock and roll music of the mid-60s that he was into as a kid. He’s really good at it, he’s put together a band and is having a blast. And of course, he’s become a better player in general as things have developed.

Also, I once took a group lesson with Robben Ford (and took my then-high school student son with me, who took more away from it than I did). He said that the most important thing a guitarist can learn to do is play rhythm parts well, that it was far more crucial than soloing. And if you think about the time spent playing rhythm in a tune vs soloing, it’s obviously true. Turns out playing rhythm guitar also helps develop timing and picking skills.

 

[Tremontinator]

It's actually a true story, part of my experience as a guitarist.

YMMV, but it will certainly be your own experience if and when you choose to jam with others in your local region at open-mics...my experience was indeed enjoyable; I made a few friends and more acquaintances who were of like-mind regards music.

While life was often summed up in Van Morrison's song, "Into the Mystic," it helped me see the fact that I, like others, don't know a lot about life, until we begin asking questions, just like when we were children asking our parents about our world around us. Music, like life, is very much a mystery until we learn about it with questions.

THAT'S heavy.

I also must empathize with your frustration with certain teachers. Pink Floyd warned us about certain teachers who lorded it over their students. I'd just not listen to that type of teacher and locate one who is friendlier and cares about his students...?

The better option is to research a good local college-musically trained instructor who understands what you wish to accomplish with your practice and playing, and how both of you can work towards that goal. Another option is online:

Tim Pierce is a good teacher who is friendly and supportive, and you can sign up for lessons from his channel (some free, some a subscription) here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOiLMDayizHVJUSLPauoLQQ

Also, Brett Papa:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoMrOn8Vgd7sglHxF3AAyNA

Man you're full of the heavy stuff aren't you? I'm gonna have to read these posts a few times.

I will check out them guys on YouTube as soon as I catch up on here

 

[11top]

Turns out playing rhythm guitar also helps develop timing......

This.

I’ve seen many players who appear to be good skillful players...........until they play with a band. If you can’t keep time, it’s going to be a struggle.

 

[Tremontinator]

I forgot, there’s one more piece of unwanted advice...I’ll start with a story.

I have a close friend who’s a terrific orchestral flute player, learned that as a kid; but as an adult got into guitar, and was trying to learn these incredibly difficult jazz parts, and becoming enormously frustrated, to the point that sometimes after a few bars (that he actually played pretty well), he’d get all tangled up and become incredibly angry, and simply stop playing the tune.

Watching this every time we’d get together, I finally asked him why he was torturing himself; why not play something simpler?

Long story short, he started playing the simpler rock and roll music of the mid-60s that he was into as a kid. He’s really good at it, he’s put together a band and is having a blast. And of course, he’s become a better player in general as things have developed.

Also, I once took a group lesson with Robben Ford (and took my then-high school student son with me, who took more away from it than I did). He said that the most important thing a guitarist can learn to do is play rhythm parts well, that it was far more crucial than soloing. And if you think about the time spent playing rhythm in a tune vs soloing, it’s obviously true. Turns out playing rhythm guitar also helps develop timing and picking skills.

You didn't finish the story. You said that you asked your friend why he was torturing himself and then


Also why would you say unwanted advice? I'm confused

 

[László]

This.

I’ve seen many players who appear to be good skillful players...........until they play with a band. If you can’t keep time, it’s going to be a struggle.

If I’m at a show and someone in a band can’t play in time, I’m outta there. There’s also a reason why, despite all the drummer jokes, a great drummer is solid gold to find, and a bad one is a band-destroyer.

 

[László]

You didn't finish the story. You said that you asked your friend why he was torturing himself and then

Huh? And then I finished the story by saying he started playing simpler music and enjoyed himself.

Also why would you say unwanted advice? I'm confused

I was poking fun at myself.

 

[Tremontinator]

This.

I’ve seen many players who appear to be good skillful players...........until they play with a band. If you can’t keep time, it’s going to be a struggle.

Fist took traditional lessons in a group class in 7th grade. Mel Bay method. That's another rant for another day but, the percentage of students who graduate from book one to book two, three, whatever drops exponentially regardless of the book series. I saw an article or video somewhere once that explained it.


I'm going off topic

Anyways
Learning to read sheets, count beats, keep tempo, box 1 Am pent, chords, how to tune, it was all very overwhelming for my Attn Defecit Disorder. I joined the class 2 weeks late, and never caught up. Only fell further and further behind.

The teacher did remark that it was unfair to everybody that the school thought it was ok to dump me into an already started class.

In the end, I wanted to play The Beach Boys and Mel Bay wanted me to play etudes and "Sparkling Stella" which is actually the melody from "Twinkle Little Star". And the teacher wanted me to play a 3/4 size nylon acoustic while I wanted to play whatever electric it was that Carl Wilson had in the pictures inside my Beach Boys double live vinyl. (Turns out it's some kind of ES335 type.)

So, I was overwhelmed and I heard the teacher tell my mom that I was wasting time and money.

At 16, I read interviews where Tremonti said he quit lessons for the same reasons I did and he taught himself. And then he said kids today have the internet to learn.
I found ultimate-guitar and learned how to read tabs. And then somebody showed me an Epi LP jr and 10W Squier amp for a hundred bones at the liquor store.

I found out later why that dude's nickname was Rip. The guitar was only worth about $45 and the amp wasn't worth firewood.

But, I was able to learn AC/DC by getting the notes and chords memorized and playing to the CDs. Suddenly, I didn't need to read sheets, worry about whole half or quarter notes, or keeping time.


I have a great tonal memory and can always recall music at the right tempo so, I use my ear for getting time and rhythm. To this day, I have no idea how many measures I'm playing, what beat I'm on, or if I'm playing eighths quarters or whatever. I just play and my ear tells my hands what to do but, my eyes still have to find the notes.

If I play by myself, teachers note that I'm perfectly in time. When I've done the very rare jam with a full band (10 years ago), I've been told I was rushing the beat. I think that's because people have this bad habit of playing the song their own way instead of playing what the hell is on the record. I can play to the record just fine but, when you start deviating from it, I don't know what I'm listening to anymore. All of my aural cues are lost, and there's too many things you have to listen to instead of concentrating on your own instrument. If I can't hear the singer, I don't know how long to repeat the verse rhythm before going into the chorus. So, if the singer changes the melody or lyrics, I'm fucked.

 

[Tremontinator]

Huh? And then I finished the story by saying he started playing simpler music and enjoyed himself.



I was poking fun at myself.

Oh ok see I thought you were about to lay down some great big epiphany lol I thought he had great reasons for torturing himself.

Typically, if I can't get something down within say an hour or two, I just figure it's beyond my skill level.

But then, there's plenty of stuff that sounds like I could learn it, and then it's too fast

 

[László]

But then, there's plenty of stuff that sounds like I could learn it, and then it's too fast

Just slow it down as suggested. You can even break it into small pieces, say, one or two measures at a time, and learn each measure or two slowly, then put them together.

I did this learning piano, and it works.

There’s software (that I haven’t tried but have read about) that will slow a recording down so you can hear it played back very slowly - that might help.

On very difficult pieces (such as Bach with its inner voices, or late 19th Century works) my teacher would even have me learn to play the left hand part and the right hand part separately, and only put them together once I got each hand’s part learned well. This could be translated to guitar; for example, you could mute the strings with your fretting hand, and just learn the picking technique, then not pick with the picking hand, and concentrate on only the fretting hand fingering, and then after you’ve got both down pat, put them together.

 

[alantig]

When I was a lad learning classical piano, my teacher had me get a metronome, and play a part very, very, very slowly. I’d do that until I could play it through without mistakes, and then increase the speed a tiny bit. Kept doing this in increments. After a few weeks I could play the part very fast as I built both speed and muscle memory.

That's essentially how Steve Vai rehearses his bands. Starting slow then building speed until they can play the song at tempo 10 times w/o a mistake.

 

[Rockmark]

What Les describes is really important to me in growing. I play w pros way beyond my level. I have learned from them how to play in the mix, where to add my little tasty diddies, but mostly how and where I fit to benefit the whole sound. Blues is a great way to learn w others. Important not to step on others and as Les says, rhythm is so so important for my playing w others. Trading off leads and rhythm w others is so much fun. And then playing rhythm forces one to stay on beat w others. I tend to race also and the others keep reminding me to slow down which I still work on. I love Johnny B Good!!!
I also try to remember how important it is to not overplay. The dots and dashes and notes not played are sometimes more critical than fast runs. As I remember something Orianthi said." Every time I pick up the guitar it is something different. Something new to try and new to play." That's why it's such a great adventure.

I forgot, there’s one more piece of unwanted advice...I’ll start with a story.

I have a close friend who’s a terrific orchestral flute player, learned that as a kid; but as an adult got into guitar, and was trying to learn these incredibly difficult jazz parts, and becoming enormously frustrated, to the point that sometimes after a few bars (that he actually played pretty well), he’d get all tangled up and become incredibly angry, and simply stop playing the tune.

Watching this every time we’d get together, I finally asked him why he was torturing himself; why not play something simpler?

Long story short, he started playing the simpler rock and roll music of the mid-60s that he was into as a kid. He’s really good at it, he’s put together a band and is having a blast. And of course, he’s become a better player in general as things have developed.

Also, I once took a group lesson with Robben Ford (and took my then-high school student son with me, who took more away from it than I did). He said that the most important thing a guitarist can learn to do is play rhythm parts well, that it was far more crucial than soloing. And if you think about the time spent playing rhythm in a tune vs soloing, it’s obviously true. Turns out playing rhythm guitar also helps develop timing and picking skills.

 

[Steve's addiction]

Like a lot of people said, find a teacher. I thought I was pretty good until I finally started talking lessons. Best thing I ever did. And also what Les ' teacher did, metronome. If you can't play in time., don't bother leaning anything else until you get it down. Play with people, especially ones better than you. It will make you a better player

 

[Tremontinator]

Just slow it down as suggested. You can even break it into small pieces, say, one or two measures at a time, and learn each measure or two slowly, then put them together.

I did this learning piano, and it works.

There’s software (that I haven’t tried but have read about) that will slow a recording down so you can hear it played back very slowly - that might help.

On very difficult pieces (such as Bach with its inner voices, or late 19th Century works) my teacher would even have me learn to play the left hand part and the right hand part separately, and only put them together once I got each hand’s part learned well. This could be translated to guitar; for example, you could mute the strings with your fretting hand, and just learn the picking technique, then not pick with the picking hand, and concentrate on only the fretting hand fingering, and then after you’ve got both down pat, put them together.

Did you see the Google Doodle for Bach's 333rd bday?

I use a Tascam DR-O7 for that but still get to the point where I can't get faster. I like your idea to work on picking and fretting separately

 

[11top]

There’s also a reason why, despite all the drummer jokes, a great drummer is solid gold to find, and a bad one is a band-destroyer.

Absolutely. I like flash, but solid, in-the-pocket drummers are the sh*t!

 

[Tremontinator]

Thanks for the advice everybody


I'm going to figure this out eventually.

 

[Tremontinator]

It's actually a true story, part of my experience as a guitarist.

YMMV, but it will certainly be your own experience if and when you choose to jam with others in your local region at open-mics...my experience was indeed enjoyable; I made a few friends and more acquaintances who were of like-mind regards music.

While life was often summed up in Van Morrison's song, "Into the Mystic," it helped me see the fact that I, like others, don't know a lot about life, until we begin asking questions, just like when we were children asking our parents about our world around us. Music, like life, is very much a mystery until we learn about it with questions.

THAT'S heavy.

I also must empathize with your frustration with certain teachers. Pink Floyd warned us about certain teachers who lorded it over their students. I'd just not listen to that type of teacher and locate one who is friendlier and cares about his students...?

The better option is to research a good local college-musically trained instructor who understands what you wish to accomplish with your practice and playing, and how both of you can work towards that goal. Another option is online:

Tim Pierce is a good teacher who is friendly and supportive, and you can sign up for lessons from his channel (some free, some a subscription) here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOiLMDayizHVJUSLPauoLQQ

Also, Brett Papa:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoMrOn8Vgd7sglHxF3AAyNA

Papastache
Here's A Major pentatonic
*Plays F#m pentatonic*


Me
Dude, even I know that's wrong.