Going back and forth between two Mesa amps...

Not to hijack this thread. With the lower watt Mesa (the Mark V 25 and 35 and the Rectoverbs) I see they tend to use the 84 tubes as opposed to the larger amps using the 34. I already own two amps that use the 84's, a Vox AC15 and and Orange Rocker 15. Should this affect the pick. Do the higher wattage amps sound that much better? Mind you, I am a 2 year experience home player so using high power heads is likely going to get me yelled at.
 
Most of the high wattage amps do have 1/2 power switches now. I think of my Marshall DSL-40 when I say that. I will also tell you that if you have never moved that much air, you have no idea of what you are missing
 
Higher wattage will have a big impact on clean headroom - my 90 watt Mark V can stay completely clean at truly painful volume levels, where the lower wattage amps will start to distort the power tubes as you push the volume (although they will still be silly loud for home use). EL-84 tubes have a little different tone quality compared to EL-34s or especially 6L6s as well, although Mesa does a great job voicing their amps so they will sound killer regardless. I find I almost always leave my MK V at the 90 watt setting, it just seems to feel better that way, even when I'm turning it down fairly low (still pretty freaking loud, loud enough to play over a drummer). Mesa amps that I've used are generally pretty good at keeping their tone at lower volumes, compared to my Vox AC-30 which wants to be loud to give up the goods.
 
Not to hijack this thread. With the lower watt Mesa (the Mark V 25 and 35 and the Rectoverbs) I see they tend to use the 84 tubes as opposed to the larger amps using the 34. I already own two amps that use the 84's, a Vox AC15 and and Orange Rocker 15. Should this affect the pick. Do the higher wattage amps sound that much better? Mind you, I am a 2 year experience home player so using high power heads is likely going to get me yelled at.

Here's the thing about amps and power: Different circuit designs can have the same power rating, and still be different in where the volume sweet spot is. Also, there are different methods of rating power in an amp - RMS power, "Peak" power, IHF power, etc. And different speakers react to power in unique ways due to efficiency, the amp's damping factor, etc.

So know in advance that sometimes power ratings aren't as meaningful as you might think. They're relative measurements with variables.

A big amp will usually have more clean headroom because of not only the power, but the larger power transformers, the tubes designed for more power, etc. It'll have different tone on the bottom end, usually tighter and more piano-like. It will be less likely to mush out. A lot of folks buy a 100W amp for that reason alone; one of my amps is a 100 Watt amp simply because it does its thing on the bottom that I sometimes need.

Another issue folks have a tough time getting their heads around is volume pot and gain pot taper. An amp that seems very loud quickly when turning up the volume is sometimes that way because the volume pot taper is quick, and before you hit the halfway point, the amp can be out of gas and not get any louder.

In general, an EL84 will feel a little squishier on the low end than an EL34 for whatever reason, unless some of the bass is filtered out, as with an AC30. AC30s (4xEL84) can get extremely loud. because the bass is the part that really taxes output power. The AC30 has a lot of midrange and high frequency, but the bass is cut. So it's not working as hard, and gets pretty darn loud.

Conversely, a 30 Watt Mesa amp can feel a lot quieter, because it reproduces a ton of low end. And pick attack varies among amps depending on how fast the amp responds to the transient attack of the pick. Slower amps are thought to be "forgiving," while faster amps are often called "stiff."

Then, too, there are 30 Watt EL34 amps, like some PRS HXDA models, the Bad Cat Hot Cat, and others.

BUT - the output tubes have less of an effect on the amp's tone than most people realize, because a lot of the action is in the preamp and tone stack.

So as you can see, there are infinite variables in all this, and the best and only way to really understand what's gonna work for you is to go out and play the amps.
 
+1000000 for Les's post.

I've owned a ton of amps, including 2x6V6, 2xEL84,4xEL84, 2x6L6, 4x6L6, 2xEL34 and 4xEL34 over a wide range of design/production dates (say 4 years for an even number).

They all had their own thing, even those that were just next-gen designs (Express 5:50 vs F-50 for example).

One thing that I have definitely noticed is that 2xEL84 amps used to be a LOT squashier than they are now. These days I have a Mini Rec, Runt 20 and JJ Jr and they are all LOUD and have tons of low end at volume. I'd put them up against 2x6L6 at this point for giggability, and I find 2xEL34 too loud for club gigs. I still have an Archon 100, but really high gain amps seem to run really well at any volume (Expect the Mesa Mark series that need to be SOOOOOO loud to sound right). And one day I may need to explode something with sheer volume...
 
Sorry to hear you got the virus. I hope you are doing OK and recover quickly!

I just ordered the Five-35 after trying it and some other Mesas in the store. I found that the second channel of the Rectifier had too much gain/clipping to be usable for me. I was easily able to get 4 amazing settings with the Mark V-35: Clean Rhythm and Lead Rhythm on the first channel, and Clean -> Crunch (with volume) and OD Lead on the second channel. (Note that I got the 35 which has the 'lead boost' on both channels via footswitch - that plus the extra clean headroom was absolutely worth the extra few bucks to me.)

I was really hesitant to get a new Mesa after reading how many people struggle to dial in a tone. But it literally took me minutes to find what I liked! I've always been good at making EQ and other sound adjustments. I have a good ear for small tonal changes and and a good understanding of what causes them. If that sounds like you, you will have no problem with the Mark V. I guess many people struggle to find the connection between a tone pot and its effects. If that sounds more like you, then the warnings about difficulty dialing in tones might apply.

I'd much rather have one channel with lots of options to dial in the perfect tone, than 2-3 channels with less controls. Honestly the Mark V-35 setup is perfect for me - two distinct channels, both with an additional gain/lead switch. The 25 could be used tin a similar fashion with an OD pedal. I didn't see the need to upgrade to the 90w with 3 channels since 35W is enough power for me. Actually you can use the foot-switchable EQ on the 25 in the same manner - switch on an EQ boost for leads.

The Mark Five 25 and 35 have the buil-in load box. Cabclone generally gets some pretty bad reviews, but I believe that's mostly for a) people using a lot of distortion, and b) people that don't realize you need to adjust your tone settings when you change speakers/loads. For clean and crunch I think the built-in Cabclone sounds pretty darn good. I bought the head and will be using the attenuator and a very good set of heaphones and headphone amplifier, and it sounds really really good. With the built-in attenuator you can push the amp to fun levels and get all the wonderful tube harmonics, distortion, etc. and transformer interaction, and listen at non-deafening levels. There really is no replacement for tube distortion and transformer interaction.
 
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Unfortunately no, I'm trying to get over Covid-19. Going on 6 weeks of a mild case. So no going out to stores.
Unlike. Sorry you have the virus and that you have had difficulty shaking it. I hope you get past it soon.
 
If I was to base it off an artist I like, and their sound, it would be Tim Mahoney from the band 311. Back in the day when I was big into them (late 90's-mid 2000's) he was using Rectifiers. I always loved the clean tones and crunch he got out of his amps.
I don't necessarily wanna clone him, just looking for something I can dial in to get around what the older 311 albums sounded like and typical 90's type sounds.
I’d say mini rec then. Actually, I’d find a used rectoverb 50 for half that price.
 
Amen to Les' comments on the comparison issues. I'll also add, quite a few Mesa's can be a major pain to troubleshoot, too. I was inside one Maverick (small combo I think) where to do a cap job (quick in many amps) required removing wiring in all 4 corners of the circuit board...shifting...then tilting it out. To compound it, through neglect, that amp blew the output transformer, charred the board in subpar areas of traces and, to my chagrin, he wanted it fully restored for sentimental reasons. He wanted a pair of Mercury Mag's in the process and the total expenditure was over 500 to get it there. Likely about the same as its value.

Thus, whenever I see an interesting Mesa, first thing I did is search for chassis photos to see how congested the underside is...just in case! :) So far, I've never owned one personally...repaired a few, but never owned one. One Nomad was kinda fun to play through and not overly congested. (Cleaning pots on those is "fun").
 
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