Getting replaced sucks

Lets not get hung up on semantics about fired, replaced or quit, because it does not really matter. The space in the band was altered, and by introducing a new element, without discussion or consent; it is a power move. An unholy, weird thing to do in a worship team. Even if someone else was "better" that is not acceptable, also in a church setting. You discuss these kind lf things, unless you are not up to the task. I did not get that vibe from you.

However it might open up other places where you can serve and are needed. Actually: the "grown up" service is music wise a lot less fun than our youth community service or kids gatherings ;-).
I see others agree with this. I completely disagree. This is not some normal band that gets to decide or vote or “consent “ on anything. The worship leader is in charge and can add whatever he wants to! To call adding a member “unholy”… boy. You guys have a very different view of the position and intent and purpose of the musicians if you think you should get to decide on or consent with the leader adding another member. I can’t believe I’m even reading this.

This is a church. The staff is in charge of their area of ministry. Sorry, but the members don’t get to tell the staff what to do. And I’m sorry again, but holy crap did you really say it was unholy for him to add another guitar player?:eek::eek:
 
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If someone in my band brought in another rhythm guitar player (that's what I do) without consulting me I'd be out.
That's my whole point though, Dave. That IS YOUR band. This is not his band. It's a volunteer position to which he is appointed by the music director. Everyone is reacting like his band kicked him out and did him wrong. The music director brought in another guitar player and DID NOT ask him to leave. Normal band dynamics DO NOT apply here. And that means not only that you don't get to vote in a new member, it also means the director can bring in another guitarist any time he wants and can direct the two of them as he sees fit/ to their strengths or how he wants the band to be. Maybe it's one plays lead and one rhythm. Maybe it's both play rhythm but don't play exactly the same. MAYBE he even gives both of them chords and they DO play the same thing, but he is the director. The people who play don't get to decide who else plays.

With the knowledge we have of this story so far, this is NO different than a new family joining a church and dad, mom and oldest daughter all three join the choir so you just added a bass, an alto and a soprano. Are all the other choir members going to complain that there are new singers? There is no limit on how many electric guitar players the director can have, and even if he said he only wanted one months ago, he obviously HAD two and did not do anything to indicate he was replacing anyone.

I hate to go against a group, but this just isn't how it works.
 
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Worship pastor IS THE band leader. Lol
The way that was handled was cowardly and a complete load of horse sh!t.

Some ‘pastor’. You can imagine how he’d handle the important stuff they’re supposed to be there to do.

I’d tell the whole lot of ‘em to f#ck off, in those words.

P.S. I should clarify that I don’t believe in supernatural beings, so I guess I wouldn’t be there in the first place. But if I was, yeah, I’d be pissed off.

Good thing I don’t have to pretend to be a super-nice person! 😂
 
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I see others agree with this. I completely disagree. This is not some normal band that gets to decide or vote or “consent “ on anything. The worship leader is in charge and can add whatever he wants to! To call adding a member “unholy”… boy. You guys have a very different view of the position and intent and purpose of the musicians if you think you should get to decide on or consent with the leader adding another member. I can’t believe I’m even reading this.

This is a church. The staff is in charge of their area of ministry. Sorry, but the members don’t get to tell the staff what to do. And I’m sorry again, but holy crap did you really say it was unholy for him to add another guitar player?:eek::eek:
Well, adding another guitar player brings you dangerously close to thrash metal territories and risk of spontanious combustion in church. ;-)

But other than that: I love to play with more than one guitar player. You get drowned in the mix with all those pads, but it is fun none the less.

And I think we differ on opinion what the role is of a band leader. In my book church is not necessarily a democracy: you don't get voted in or out. But if someone is officially part of the team, which means passed the bar as a person, believer and on his merits as a musician; being in that position is your ministry in church. A band leader only can initiate to "replace" you if there is a conflict on a personnal level, or if you are somehow unfit to fulfill your ministry because you somehow stopped meeting the criteria to serve. Even than it is always a matter for escalation to leadership for a decision and NOT the operational band leader.

If that is not the case, and there are no policies of a time horizon on a ministry, and he or she wants to replace you he has a very hard time explaining that wish. Freezing someone out is simply not OK.
 
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The way that was handled was cowardly and a complete load of horse sh!t.

Some ‘pastor’. You can imagine how he’d handle the important stuff they’re supposed to be there to do.

I’d tell the whole lot of ‘em to f#ck off, in those words.
Again, this is just not applicable. This is a volunteer position, to which you're appointed. If your grand daughter takes an acting position in a play, does she get to tell the director who he can add to the cast?
 
And I think we differ on opinion what the role is of a band leader. In my book church is not necessarily a democracy: you don't get voted in or out. But if someone is officially part of the team, which means passed the bar as a person, believer and on his merits as a musician; being in that position is your ministry in church. A band leader only can initiate to "replace" you if there is a conflict on a personnal level, or if you are somehow unfit to fulfill your ministry because you somehow stopped meeting the criteria to serve. Even than it is always a matter for escalation to leadership for a decision and NOT the operational band leader.

If that is not the case, and there are no policies of a time horizon on a ministry, and he or she wants to replace you he has a very hard time explaining that wish. Freezing someone out is simply not OK.
Not necessarily disagreeing on the role of a "band leader." But again, the worship leader is on staff, and in charge of the worship team and all those on that team are volunteers. So they don't get to vote on who he adds to the team. And again, our boy here WAS NOT removed from his position. So all the people saying he was treated wrong and all this... he is a volunteer that QUIT. His worship leader didn't ask him to leave. Adding more musicians in this context IS NOT doing something wrong to him or anyone involved.

We all agree that if the guy pushed him to quit, he'd be in the wrong and we'll all want to sic Sergio on him. But, HE DIDN'T. And he can add other musicians and singers to that team as he sees fit, and nobody involved has a right to be offended by those moves.

I have talked to people who are at churches that "hire a band." IN this case, which is rare, we would all agree again that it was wrong if the worship leader wanted someone out. AND, the band who came into the church "as a band" WOULD get to vote and tell him if they didn't agree with his decision... but this is simply not the context of what we're talking about here. We all want to support our brothers and sisters here. Me more than most! But his worship leader adding another guitar player is not wrong to him in any way in the context of what we know here. Too many people are reacting in assumption that either A) he was going to fire him or B) this is a regular band and an outsider is messing with the band members. In this context, neither are true, or at least, we do not yet know if the first one is true.
 
Not necessarily disagreeing on the role of a "band leader." But again, the worship leader is on staff, and in charge of the worship team and all those on that team are volunteers. So they don't get to vote on who he adds to the team. And again, our boy here WAS NOT removed from his position. So all the people saying he was treated wrong and all this... he is a volunteer that QUIT. His worship leader didn't ask him to leave. Adding more musicians in this context IS NOT doing something wrong to him or anyone involved.

We all agree that if the guy pushed him to quit, he'd be in the wrong and we'll all want to sic Sergio on him. But, HE DIDN'T. And he can add other musicians and singers to that team as he sees fit, and nobody involved has a right to be offended by those moves.

I have talked to people who are at churches that "hire a band." IN this case, which is rare, we would all agree again that it was wrong if the worship leader wanted someone out. AND, the band who came into the church "as a band" WOULD get to vote and tell him if they didn't agree with his decision... but this is simply not the context of what we're talking about here. We all want to support our brothers and sisters here. Me more than most! But his worship leader adding another guitar player is not wrong to him in any way in the context of what we know here. Too many people are reacting in assumption that either A) he was going to fire him or B) this is a regular band and an outsider is messing with the band members. In this context, neither are true, or at least, we do not yet know if the first one is true.
I agree with you partly about the quitting part, that is a little ambiguous. however if it is policy that there is only 1 electric guitar player in the band, what OP said if I'm correct (and which is also the policy in my church), there is the situation of a zero sum game. You add one, that means the other one is out, unless there is a change in policy. However, I agree there is the matter of not telling he is in or out and the possibility of jumping the gun.

But I sincerely disagree on your position about hired staff vs volunteer and his/her rights to do as he or she sees fit. Might be cultural and I am a European hippy? I think I will just leave it at that. Agree to disagree? :)
 
They said no way Jose to the two electric guitarist idea.
He said that, then he added a second guitar. You took that to mean he wanted you to leave. MAYBE he did, but you didn't give him a chance to prove it and left based only on speculation. So again, YOU MAY BE RIGHT, but by not forcing him to do the dirty work IF you are right, you have absolved him of any wrongdoing. If you don't push the issue now, you'll never know if he intended to run you out.
 
Not necessarily disagreeing on the role of a "band leader." But again, the worship leader is on staff, and in charge of the worship team and all those on that team are volunteers. So they don't get to vote on who he adds to the team. And again, our boy here WAS NOT removed from his position. So all the people saying he was treated wrong and all this... he is a volunteer that QUIT. His worship leader didn't ask him to leave. Adding more musicians in this context IS NOT doing something wrong to him or anyone involved.

We all agree that if the guy pushed him to quit, he'd be in the wrong and we'll all want to sic Sergio on him. But, HE DIDN'T. And he can add other musicians and singers to that team as he sees fit, and nobody involved has a right to be offended by those moves.

I have talked to people who are at churches that "hire a band." IN this case, which is rare, we would all agree again that it was wrong if the worship leader wanted someone out. AND, the band who came into the church "as a band" WOULD get to vote and tell him if they didn't agree with his decision... but this is simply not the context of what we're talking about here. We all want to support our brothers and sisters here. Me more than most! But his worship leader adding another guitar player is not wrong to him in any way in the context of what we know here. Too many people are reacting in assumption that either A) he was going to fire him or B) this is a regular band and an outsider is messing with the band members. In this context, neither are true, or at least, we do not yet know if the first one is true.
I think at this point it doesnt matter since I have mentally moved on. He will reap what he has sowed. When they tell you there is no other spot on the band but then bring in someone and declare him as the electric guitarist, then I have not a single idea what to make of it.
 
I agree with you partly about the quitting part, that is a little ambiguous. however if it is policy that there is only 1 electric guitar player in the band, what OP said if I'm correct (and which is also the policy in my church), there is the situation of a zero sum game. You add one, that means the other one is out, unless there is a change in policy. However, I agree there is the matter of not telling he is in or out and the possibility of jumping the gun.

But I sincerely disagree on your position about hired staff vs volunteer and his/her rights to do as he or she sees fit. Might be cultural and I am a European hippy? I think I will just leave it at that. Agree to disagree? :)
The thing is, the guy said "no more than one electric guitarist." But then he got a second one. So we don't know if he changed his mind and decided to give it a try, or if he really did want our boy out. And probably now, we'll never know.

On the last issue, yes, we'll agree to disagree. The worship leader is staff and he is in charge of that aspect of ministry. Anyone who participates in that ministry is a volunteer. It is no different than any other volunteer position in any aspect of life. You volunteer to do what you're asked to do. Whether it's play guitar, teach a class, sing in the choir, or run the circular saw with Habitat for Humanity. But you don't get to tell the paid employee boss who should be doing what amongst the other volunteers.
 
He said that, then he added a second guitar. You took that to mean he wanted you to leave. MAYBE he did, but you didn't give him a chance to prove it and left based only on speculation. So again, YOU MAY BE RIGHT, but by not forcing him to do the dirty work IF you are right, you have absolved him of any wrongdoing. If you don't push the issue now, you'll never know if he intended to run you out.
No, we are starting to get into unnecessary arguments. He declared the new guy as our new guitarist and thanked me for filling in (someone else did that) at the electric guitar position. So new guy comes in and say he will be the new guitarist while saying there will never be a 2nd electric guitarist cus it'd be too messy. This is a ***show.
 
I think at this point it doesnt matter since I have mentally moved on. He will reap what he has sowed. When they tell you there is no other spot on the band but then bring in someone and declare him as the electric guitarist, then I have not a single idea what to make of it.
Our orchestra had no electric guitar 10 years ago and at that time, the music minister said acoustic guitar and bass only. We now have 4 guitar players, two of which are electric, two acoustic. When we got space, more players joined the church, etc. we fit more people in! And the best electric guitar player is not even playing in the orchestra! :D
 
The thing is, the guy said "no more than one electric guitarist." But then he got a second one. So we don't know if he changed his mind and decided to give it a try, or if he really did want our boy out. And probably now, we'll never know.

On the last issue, yes, we'll agree to disagree. The worship leader is staff and he is in charge of that aspect of ministry. Anyone who participates in that ministry is a volunteer. It is no different than any other volunteer position in any aspect of life. You volunteer to do what you're asked to do. Whether it's play guitar, teach a class, sing in the choir, or run the circular saw with Habitat for Humanity. But you don't get to tell the paid employee boss who should be doing what amongst the other volunteers.
We pay some of these folks who run around with gopros to put on their Youtube channels. The drummer is paid, the worship pastor is paid, the sound engineer is paid. I served as a worship leader for over 20 years and never did I consider accepting money for doing what I love. If you believe in God like me, you are worshipling him out of thankfulness and not to get paid. But I will not judge them. They are held to a higher standard and some of them get axed rather quickly. Volunteers are treated more importantly than the paid members.
 
No, we are starting to get into unnecessary arguments. He declared the new guy as our new guitarist and thanked me for filling in (someone else did that) at the electric guitar position. So new guy comes in and say he will be the new guitarist while saying there will never be a 2nd electric guitarist cus it'd be too messy. This is a ***show.
This is both details that weren't in initially, and someone else thanking you for filling in is not really specific enough (who did this? Random church member? Or the pastor or other leader?)

And, the last sentence is new info also. The new guy said there would never be another guitar player? After he joined and while you were still in the band? Again, you never said that before. But, he wouldn't have the authority to do that anyway.

But yes, I'll leave this alone. I was pushing for you to try to get back in to see if they really wanted you out. But if this new info is correct, I would have bowed out of the conversation earlier.
 
We pay some of these folks who run around with gopros to put on their Youtube channels. The drummer is paid, the worship pastor is paid, the sound engineer is paid. I served as a worship leader for over 20 years and never did I consider accepting money for doing what I love. If you believe in God like me, you are worshipling him out of thankfulness and not to get paid. But I will not judge them. They are held to a higher standard and some of them get axed rather quickly. Volunteers are treated more importantly than the paid members.
I wasn't going to bring this up earlier, but some churches hire bands that aren't even Christians. Big thread at TGP where lots of guys in worship bands were involved. Several said it was a running joke in their church that you could see the band at the bar on Saturday night and at the church 8 hours later on Sunday morning. My issue was with the ones who said that the band members were openly NOT Christians. We even had one of our friends here mention a church band member that sat in church at practice and repeatedly dropped F bombs in practice, etc.

Anyway, there are complications when mixing paid and unpaid within a band. No doubt that adds a layer or 3 of complexity to the situation.
 
This is both details that weren't in initially, and someone else thanking you for filling in is not really specific enough (who did this? Random church member? Or the pastor or other leader?)

And, the last sentence is new info also. The new guy said there would never be another guitar player? After he joined and while you were still in the band? Again, you never said that before. But, he wouldn't have the authority to do that anyway.

But yes, I'll leave this alone. I was pushing for you to try to get back in to see if they really wanted you out. But if this new info is correct, I would have bowed out of the conversation earlier.

This is both details that weren't in initially, and someone else thanking you for filling in is not really specific enough (who did this? Random church member? Or the pastor or other leader?)

And, the last sentence is new info also. The new guy said there would never be another guitar player? After he joined and while you were still in the band? Again, you never said that before. But, he wouldn't have the authority to do that anyway.

But yes, I'll leave this alone. I was pushing for you to try to get back in to see if they really wanted you out. But if this new info is correct, I would have bowed out of the conversation earlier.
My bad. I was quite distraught and was too quick to post.

To answer your question, the leader of instruments (aka band) thanked me for filling in WHEN I asked the leadership what my future role would be. They dodged my question and just got a thank you in the end.

I approached one of the leaders...again because the worship leader's eyes glaze over when I start talking to him...and when I asked him if we going with 2 e.guitars, he said no because the sound could get messy.
 
I wasn't going to bring this up earlier, but some churches hire bands that aren't even Christians. Big thread at TGP where lots of guys in worship bands were involved. Several said it was a running joke in their church that you could see the band at the bar on Saturday night and at the church 8 hours later on Sunday morning. My issue was with the ones who said that the band members were openly NOT Christians. We even had one of our friends here mention a church band member that sat in church at practice and repeatedly dropped F bombs in practice, etc.

Anyway, there are complications when mixing paid and unpaid within a band. No doubt that adds a layer or 3 of complexity to the situation.
Our sound engineer was part of an album production that won some Grammys and he watches tv on his phone during service. Our new e.guitarist plays for some heavy metal band at small bars...but only a few folks know about it. Our drummer's purpose appears to be get content for his YT channel cus he always has a GoPro.

They want quality performance while sacrificing the heart of the worship.
 
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