CatStrangler
PRS Enthusiast
So far, I have yet to experience one of these. Any thoughts fromowners? Any idea when production instruments might get them?
Gen III tremolo
- Thread starter CatStrangler
- Start date
Sorry to say that @CatStrangler, @LSchefman could give you first line experience minutes.
Cause his new object of passion "wears" Gen III.
Cause his new object of passion "wears" Gen III.
CantankerousCarl
Occasionally Onery Member
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2012
- Messages
- 2,009
My PS20th has one...I am not a huge dive-bomber, but seems rock solid. Haven't changed strings yet; the locking saddle screws seem a but fiddly. Play-feel wise, the saddles are larger and squarer, so it feels more like a fixed-bridge for palm mutes. I dig it so far. The guitar sounds amazing, but there are alot of components of awesomeness, so not sure how much the new design contributes to the equation. I dig it.
There are actually two Gen III bridges. There's the one with the locking saddle screws that have sort of a cone shape - I love calling that the "Conehead" Gen III, and it's only available on Private Stock.
There's also the Gen III without the locking saddle screws. It was available on the 58/15 CU24 run that came out late last year. I have no idea when/if these will be commercially available on Core models.
Carl has the feel thing nailed.
The theory of the bridge is that there is negligible wobble in the saddles due to grooves strategically placed, and the screws are thicker so more transfer of tone to the wood, and some other stuff that I probably don't recall.
So...let's talk tone. I can only address the tone of the PS version.
OK...does sustain count as tone? The guitar sustains significantly longer and louder than any other tremolo guitar I've ever owned or played, including my PS CU24 30th, which I have to tell you, is one very fantastic guitar.
So let's start with that. When I say it sustains louder, what I mean is that it not only takes a long time for the note to decay in terms of time, the amplitude also takes a long time to decay; the note's volume seems to just ring on at the same level forever. It might even beat out my McCarty Singlecut in sustain time, but I haven't timed them. And...I'm not gonna, because, you know, that's getting a little too deep, even for geeky me.
This characteristic of very long decay of both time and amplitude easily surpasses even my McCarty WL guitar, that has a Paul's Guitar stop tail with the brass inserts. And I have to tell you, the McCarty WL is a very ringy, good sounding guitar with a lot of sustain. This 20th Anniversary PS is like a pipe organ with a key held down, in comparison.
As for tone, it's the most gorgeous, effortless PRS tone of any I've played. And I've played tons, and owned a whole bunch of 'em. However, there are a lot of factors that go into both sustain and tone, so how does one figure out what's causing that? Just the bridge? Other stuff? I dunno.
I'll go out on a limb and say the bridge plays a fairly big role. But so do other pieces/parts of the equation, and I'm not prepared to attribute all the good stuff to the bridge alone.
So there you have it. Absolutely, hands down, the finest tremolo guitar I've ever owned or played in terms of tone and sustain. Is it the bridge? Is it the wood? Does mine have holy water sprinkled on it? I have no idea.
OK, definitely there's gotta be some holy water, magic spells, and so on. I'll go out on a limb and say that Mercury and Terpsichore came down from Mount Olympus and were so impressed with the guitar that they breathed a special life into it and gave it their 'gods of music and dance blessing,' but no one would believe that except,,,well, no one would believe that.
I know Jack Gretz has one or two of the CU24 85/15s with the non-Conehead bridge. That might be a good place to start your investigation and try one, if you're in his neck of the woods ever.
There's also the Gen III without the locking saddle screws. It was available on the 58/15 CU24 run that came out late last year. I have no idea when/if these will be commercially available on Core models.
Carl has the feel thing nailed.
The theory of the bridge is that there is negligible wobble in the saddles due to grooves strategically placed, and the screws are thicker so more transfer of tone to the wood, and some other stuff that I probably don't recall.
So...let's talk tone. I can only address the tone of the PS version.
OK...does sustain count as tone? The guitar sustains significantly longer and louder than any other tremolo guitar I've ever owned or played, including my PS CU24 30th, which I have to tell you, is one very fantastic guitar.
So let's start with that. When I say it sustains louder, what I mean is that it not only takes a long time for the note to decay in terms of time, the amplitude also takes a long time to decay; the note's volume seems to just ring on at the same level forever. It might even beat out my McCarty Singlecut in sustain time, but I haven't timed them. And...I'm not gonna, because, you know, that's getting a little too deep, even for geeky me.
This characteristic of very long decay of both time and amplitude easily surpasses even my McCarty WL guitar, that has a Paul's Guitar stop tail with the brass inserts. And I have to tell you, the McCarty WL is a very ringy, good sounding guitar with a lot of sustain. This 20th Anniversary PS is like a pipe organ with a key held down, in comparison.
As for tone, it's the most gorgeous, effortless PRS tone of any I've played. And I've played tons, and owned a whole bunch of 'em. However, there are a lot of factors that go into both sustain and tone, so how does one figure out what's causing that? Just the bridge? Other stuff? I dunno.
I'll go out on a limb and say the bridge plays a fairly big role. But so do other pieces/parts of the equation, and I'm not prepared to attribute all the good stuff to the bridge alone.
So there you have it. Absolutely, hands down, the finest tremolo guitar I've ever owned or played in terms of tone and sustain. Is it the bridge? Is it the wood? Does mine have holy water sprinkled on it? I have no idea.
OK, definitely there's gotta be some holy water, magic spells, and so on. I'll go out on a limb and say that Mercury and Terpsichore came down from Mount Olympus and were so impressed with the guitar that they breathed a special life into it and gave it their 'gods of music and dance blessing,' but no one would believe that except,,,well, no one would believe that.
I know Jack Gretz has one or two of the CU24 85/15s with the non-Conehead bridge. That might be a good place to start your investigation and try one, if you're in his neck of the woods ever.
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CatStrangler
PRS Enthusiast
Hi Les. I assume, looking at the locking part of saddle, that the locking mechanism does not have to be engaged and trem would still operate as the previous generations. Is that true?
Overview on the PRS vibrato systems:
"John Mann bridge (Gen I). Approximate years in production: 1985 – 1995.
PRS Patented Tremolo (Gen II) Approximate years in production: 1993 – current.
PRS Gen III Patented Tremolo. Offered in Core production via the "58/15" limited run in 2015.
PRS Gen III Patented Tremolo with locking saddles. Offered through the Private Stock program beginning in 2011."
Gen III vs. Gen III:
"As always, the bridge is machined brass, a metal that rings beautifully. The block, intonation screws, height-adjustment screws, and the string slots on the saddles are all left un-plated for increased sustain and fidelity of tone.
A. The mounting screw holes are countersunk from underneath, creating a knife-edge set-up that ensures the bridge will return to pitch after use.
B. The bridge’s sidewalls create a pocket that keeps the six individually adjustable saddles from moving sideways, thereby eliminating another traditional cause of tuning instability.
C. The saddles feature a compound radius so that the string breaks across the saddle at the optimum angle for contact and vibration transfer through the bridge. The Private Stock Gen III Trem also features locking saddles. These saddles hold the ball ends in place preventing any movement in the block and further ensuring the guitar returns to pitch after use.
D. The tremolo arm is unthreaded and features a small set screw that allows the player to customize the feel of the arm and find a comfortable playing position.
The Gen III trem also has a few notable updates that further support the fidelity of the guitar’s tone and maximize sustain.
E. The mounting screws have been redesigned with larger thread and a larger custom head. This added mass creates more contact from the screw to the bridge and the guitar’s body, resulting in greater sustain.
F. Grooves have been added to the bridge plate. The grooves are radiused to match the radius of the height adjustment screws, again so there is more contact and a better fit."
"John Mann bridge (Gen I). Approximate years in production: 1985 – 1995.
PRS Patented Tremolo (Gen II) Approximate years in production: 1993 – current.
PRS Gen III Patented Tremolo. Offered in Core production via the "58/15" limited run in 2015.
PRS Gen III Patented Tremolo with locking saddles. Offered through the Private Stock program beginning in 2011."
Gen III vs. Gen III:
"As always, the bridge is machined brass, a metal that rings beautifully. The block, intonation screws, height-adjustment screws, and the string slots on the saddles are all left un-plated for increased sustain and fidelity of tone.
A. The mounting screw holes are countersunk from underneath, creating a knife-edge set-up that ensures the bridge will return to pitch after use.
B. The bridge’s sidewalls create a pocket that keeps the six individually adjustable saddles from moving sideways, thereby eliminating another traditional cause of tuning instability.
C. The saddles feature a compound radius so that the string breaks across the saddle at the optimum angle for contact and vibration transfer through the bridge. The Private Stock Gen III Trem also features locking saddles. These saddles hold the ball ends in place preventing any movement in the block and further ensuring the guitar returns to pitch after use.
D. The tremolo arm is unthreaded and features a small set screw that allows the player to customize the feel of the arm and find a comfortable playing position.
The Gen III trem also has a few notable updates that further support the fidelity of the guitar’s tone and maximize sustain.
E. The mounting screws have been redesigned with larger thread and a larger custom head. This added mass creates more contact from the screw to the bridge and the guitar’s body, resulting in greater sustain.
F. Grooves have been added to the bridge plate. The grooves are radiused to match the radius of the height adjustment screws, again so there is more contact and a better fit."
I don't know for sure.
Skeeter
New Member
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2013
- Messages
- 194
Wow, I had no idea these have been on PS guitars since 2011! Would like to think they'd have filtered down to the core line by now (beyond the one limited run). 30th Anniversary, beyond just PS, would have made sense IMHO, but I'm not in the business of guitar-making and it would make Les' PS 30th less special 
I do hope we get it on core Cu24's at some point. Paul originally changed the game with his take on a traditional trem (at a time when I imagine anything but Floyds were popular) and I like to see that it continues to be improved.
Out of shear curiosity, anyone ever send a guitar to PTC to have one retrofit (if even possible?)
I do hope we get it on core Cu24's at some point. Paul originally changed the game with his take on a traditional trem (at a time when I imagine anything but Floyds were popular) and I like to see that it continues to be improved.
Out of shear curiosity, anyone ever send a guitar to PTC to have one retrofit (if even possible?)
I had a conversation with David Grissom about the locking gen III vibrato [sorry I can't bring myself to use the incorrect-but-in-common-use term] on Miss April. The first thing he mentioned was having to have the right size allen wrench with him at all times. Makes on-the-fly string changes a major PITA. Exactly the sort of thing an experienced gigging guitarist would notice right away!
My experience pretty much agrees with Les', including the part where he's not entirely confident in his attributions of what the effects of individual elements are. I'll add that I've noticed the notes seem to have a more prominent & distinct fundamental, i.e., there's less of that (subtle but noticeable if you know what you're listening for) slight flutter/indistinctness that I always hear on guitars with Stratocaster-based vibrato units. I'm pretty sure that is attributable to the locking mechanism.
My experience pretty much agrees with Les', including the part where he's not entirely confident in his attributions of what the effects of individual elements are. I'll add that I've noticed the notes seem to have a more prominent & distinct fundamental, i.e., there's less of that (subtle but noticeable if you know what you're listening for) slight flutter/indistinctness that I always hear on guitars with Stratocaster-based vibrato units. I'm pretty sure that is attributable to the locking mechanism.
I honestly have no idea!
I...um...uh....still haven't had to...er...change the uh...strings....
OK, but I have an excuse. I was out of commission for a couple of months with the surgery on my arm to fix the problem with my fretting hand, and the strings are still like new.
First, I agree with the distinctness of the fundamental. No question.
It's probably less easy to deal with the little threaded inserts if you break a string at a gig. Grissom has a point, but the little allen wrench is so very small, and so very light, and so very easily fits into a gig bag or case that I can't imagine him being too terribly inconvenienced carrying one.
For me the bigger problem would be having to deal with the locking thing for on-stage string changes at all. For that I have no argument, except to say, the damn thing sounds fantastic! So there's your bonus gift.
Does he have the locking thingies on one of his PRSes? I'd be curious to hear his thoughts on how it affects the tone.
He picked up his Miss April the day before I picked up mine. And used it for his regular Tuesday evening gig the day he got it!
He didn't have an opinion on the effect-on-tone question I raised with him. He did say that his regular solidbody ones had "more bass than Miss A," which I would sort of agree with; I think the bass on Miss A is a little tighter and more focused, which may make it seem like "less bass." My own solidbody DGT (which has a somewhat different wood recipe) appears to have a lot of low end but it's kinda wooly on the lowest notes in comparison to Miss A. We both agreed there's a lot of harmonic/overtonal richness happening with that guitar, whatever the cause thereof might be.
The hollow cavity would act like a resonant filter to a degree, making the tone a bit different. Though that's not a bad thing, because it will also be warmer in spots, and peakier in spots, etc.
I really enjoyed my CU22 Semi-Hollow Ltd a few years back. The chambering was similar to Miss A. But I did miss what I felt was a crisper low end that I get with a true solid body electric at times. It's not that there's more low end, it's just different.
It's no doubt nice to have both types guitars.
bodia
Authorities said.....best leave it.....unsolved
Negative. I think Private Stock only.
EDIT: Sorry, I was thinking of the term with the locking screws on the saddles. Still, I don’t believe the Gen III is available as a part.
ViperDoc
Plugged In.
The locking saddle Gen III bridge is the best PRS trem setup I’ve ever played. Ever.
Black Plaid
Other Alan!
I'm surprised no one makes an after market saddle like this.
damien6669
New Member
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2019
- Messages
- 2
I managed to get the strings changed on mine. With the locking saddles if you don't coerce the thinner strings into the absolute Centre, You will break strings immediately. But you can tell the difference once it’s done correctly. Definitely not a time saver, but it’s a great setup. It only took 3 packs of strings to get it right.
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