For Those Who Write Original Music...

REM writes some hella nonsense lyrics sometimes.


In the white room with black curtains near the station
Black roof country, no gold pavements, tired starlings
Silver horses ran down moonbeams in your dark eyes
Dawn light smiles on you leaving, my contentment
I'll wait in this place where the sun never shines
Wait in this place where the shadows run from themselves
You said no strings could secure you at the station
Platform ticket, restless diesels, goodbye windows
I walked into such a sad time at the station
As I walked out, felt my own need just beginning
I'll wait in the queue when the trains come back
Lie with you where the shadows run from themselves
At the party she was kindness in the hard crowd
Consolation for the old wound now forgotten
Yellow tigers crouched in jungles in her dark eyes
She's just dressing, goodbye windows, tired starlings
I'll sleep in this place with the lonely crowd
Lie in the dark where the shadows run from themselves


While I think I know what was (at least partially) responsible for these lyrics, I still say, “WTF?!!”
 
As usual Les very wise words! Thanks for your input. It is for myself so I think it's time to get this project done. Whether others will like it I don't know but if even one person likes then I will feel I have done something. Thanks again!
It's OK, even if that one person who likes it is you. At least, that's what I'm told! ;)
 
Which comes first, and which is harder?

Melody or lyrics?

Even though I was an English major, and consider myself a decent writer, I tend to struggle more with lyrics. I’ve let many melodies fade from memory because I gave up on creating acceptable lyrics.
I'm good friends with a couple of songwriters who've had hits, and my son's a very good songwriter and lyricist. Seems that some come songwriters up with the music first, some come up with the lyrics first, and some can do it either way.

I can't write a lyric to save my life.
 
In the white room with black curtains near the station
Black roof country, no gold pavements, tired starlings
Silver horses ran down moonbeams in your dark eyes
Dawn light smiles on you leaving, my contentment
I'll wait in this place where the sun never shines
Wait in this place where the shadows run from themselves
You said no strings could secure you at the station
Platform ticket, restless diesels, goodbye windows
I walked into such a sad time at the station
As I walked out, felt my own need just beginning
I'll wait in the queue when the trains come back
Lie with you where the shadows run from themselves
At the party she was kindness in the hard crowd
Consolation for the old wound now forgotten
Yellow tigers crouched in jungles in her dark eyes
She's just dressing, goodbye windows, tired starlings
I'll sleep in this place with the lonely crowd
Lie in the dark where the shadows run from themselves


While I think I know what was (at least partially) responsible for these lyrics, I still say, “WTF?!!”
It's interesting how differently folks react to lyrics.

That lyric evokes specific images for me. While no explanation is needed, here's how I break it down in my own head:

Black roof country - a metaphor for coal or industrial soot on the roofs, perhaps a dingy industrial or mining town, or just an old one. No gold pavements, ie, streets not paved with gold, working class. Even the birds are tired. Her eyes sparkle and remind him of silver horses running down light in the darkness. In the morning, she looks beautiful in the light. But the woman wants no strings attached, waits on the platform for a diesel train, and splits, making him sad.

He'll wait in line for her to come back, and lie with her for obvious reasons. She's kind in a tough crowd; her presence is consolation for a lost love that wounded him. Yellow tigers are perhaps anger in her eyes, She leaves, he goes back to sleep in the dark.

The beauty of a lyric like this is that it probably means something different to everyone, and no doubt meant something different to the person who wrote it. I think it's a very good metaphor of a love affair.

But that's my interpretation.
 
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I admit it. I’m more of a melody guy than a lyrics fan. And that’s a pretty sorry statement for an English major, but I was never a big poetry fan either.

However, I do appreciate good lyricists, which could be the start of a whole ‘nuther thread:

Who are your favorite lyricists?

Hard to beat Lennon and McCartney, but Dylan also comes to mind. I gotta give the nod to Pat Monahan.
Example:

Now that she's back in the atmosphere
With drops of Jupiter in her hair
She acts like summer and walks like rain
Reminds me that there's a time to change, hey
Since the return of her stay on the moon
She listens like spring and she talks like June, hey
Hey, hey, yeah
But tell me, did you sail across the sun?
Did you make it to the Milky Way to see the lights all faded
And that Heaven is overrated?
And tell me, did you fall for a shooting star?
One without a permanent scar, and did you miss me
While you were looking for yourself out there?
Now that she's back from that soul vacation
Tracing her way through the constellation, hey, mmm
She checks out Mozart while she does Tae-Bo
Reminds me that there's a room to grow, hey, yeah
Now that she's back in the atmosphere
I'm afraid that she might think of me as
Plain ol' Jane told a story about a man
Who was too afraid to fly, so he never did land
But tell me, did the wind sweep you off your feet?
Did you finally get the chance to dance along the light of day
And head back to the Milky Way?
And tell me, did Venus blow your mind?
Was it everything you wanted to find, and did you miss me
While you were looking for yourself out there?
Can you imagine no love, pride, deep-fried chicken
Your best friend always sticking up for you
Even when I know you're wrong?
Can you imagine no first dance, freeze-dried romance
Five hour phone conversation
The best soy latte that you ever had, and me?
But tell me, did the wind sweep you off your feet?
Did you finally get the chance to dance along the light of day
And head back toward the Milky Way?
And tell me, did you sail across the sun?
Did you make it to the Milky Way to see the lights all faded
And that Heaven is overrated?
And tell me, did you fall for a shooting star?
One without a permanent scar, and then you miss me
While you were looking for yourself?
 
I don't like to learn covers anymore and just write my own music. I think I have some good songs but I guess I won't know until I put them out there. My biggest problem is I have a ton of half written tunes that I don't go back to because I keep coming up with new ideas. I wonder though if it's laziness or a fear I can't finish it. I've got the equipment to lay down tracks. it's just realizing its more work than I thought. Right now I am actually playing bass for the worship team at church ( we have a bunch of guitar players but only me and one other bass player). I'm playing every weekend in August so after I get some down time I'm going to go at it. Love this discussion!!
Dude, it sounds like you have a wealth of ideas down on tape (well, probably ones and zeros). Don't sell yourself short. String some of your stuff together into a song and put it out there. Guys post their stuff on this site all the time.
 
Which comes first, and which is harder?

Melody or lyrics?

Even though I was an English major, and consider myself a decent writer, I tend to struggle more with lyrics. I’ve let many melodies fade from memory because I gave up on creating acceptable lyrics.
I think both. I've had words come to me and have written them down, that I had no song structure in mind for. Other times I've had riffs or whole structured sections (could be a verse or chorus) come to me that I've had no words for at the time. I think either can just hit you, but especially riffs, while playing. But I'm sure it's different for everyone.
 
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I admit it. I’m more of a melody guy than a lyrics fan. And that’s a pretty sorry statement for an English major, but I was never a big poetry fan either.

However, I do appreciate good lyricists, which could be the start of a whole ‘nuther thread:

Who are your favorite lyricists?

Hard to beat Lennon and McCartney, but Dylan also comes to mind. I gotta give the nod to Pat Monahan.
Example:

Now that she's back in the atmosphere
With drops of Jupiter in her hair
She acts like summer and walks like rain
Reminds me that there's a time to change, hey
Since the return of her stay on the moon
She listens like spring and she talks like June, hey
Hey, hey, yeah
But tell me, did you sail across the sun?
Did you make it to the Milky Way to see the lights all faded
And that Heaven is overrated?
And tell me, did you fall for a shooting star?
One without a permanent scar, and did you miss me
While you were looking for yourself out there?
Now that she's back from that soul vacation
Tracing her way through the constellation, hey, mmm
She checks out Mozart while she does Tae-Bo
Reminds me that there's a room to grow, hey, yeah
Now that she's back in the atmosphere
I'm afraid that she might think of me as
Plain ol' Jane told a story about a man
Who was too afraid to fly, so he never did land
But tell me, did the wind sweep you off your feet?
Did you finally get the chance to dance along the light of day
And head back to the Milky Way?
And tell me, did Venus blow your mind?
Was it everything you wanted to find, and did you miss me
While you were looking for yourself out there?
Can you imagine no love, pride, deep-fried chicken
Your best friend always sticking up for you
Even when I know you're wrong?
Can you imagine no first dance, freeze-dried romance
Five hour phone conversation
The best soy latte that you ever had, and me?
But tell me, did the wind sweep you off your feet?
Did you finally get the chance to dance along the light of day
And head back toward the Milky Way?
And tell me, did you sail across the sun?
Did you make it to the Milky Way to see the lights all faded
And that Heaven is overrated?
And tell me, did you fall for a shooting star?
One without a permanent scar, and then you miss me
While you were looking for yourself?
That's a very good lyric!

I confess, I'm more of a melody and texture person, too. Nor do I sing. My independent work is 99% instrumental.

What I do well (I hope) is score music to picture. It's kind of a different thing. I can only have so many things going on, or I fog the ol' brain.
 
I was never a big poetry fan either.
I've gone through phases.

I won a city-wide award for some poetry in high school, but I swear it was an accident. We had an assignment to write some poetry, I did the assignment, and the teacher submitted it for a scholastic award. I didn't even know about the contest until I got a pin and a dictionary as prizes.

I think the teacher was every bit as shocked as I was.
 
I admit it. I’m more of a melody guy than a lyrics fan. And that’s a pretty sorry statement for an English major, but I was never a big poetry fan either.

However, I do appreciate good lyricists, which could be the start of a whole ‘nuther thread:

Who are your favorite lyricists?

Hard to beat Lennon and McCartney, but Dylan also comes to mind. I gotta give the nod to Pat Monahan.
Example:

Now that she's back in the atmosphere
With drops of Jupiter in her hair
She acts like summer and walks like rain
Reminds me that there's a time to change, hey
Since the return of her stay on the moon
She listens like spring and she talks like June, hey
Hey, hey, yeah
But tell me, did you sail across the sun?
Did you make it to the Milky Way to see the lights all faded
And that Heaven is overrated?
And tell me, did you fall for a shooting star?
One without a permanent scar, and did you miss me
While you were looking for yourself out there?
Now that she's back from that soul vacation
Tracing her way through the constellation, hey, mmm
She checks out Mozart while she does Tae-Bo
Reminds me that there's a room to grow, hey, yeah
Now that she's back in the atmosphere
I'm afraid that she might think of me as
Plain ol' Jane told a story about a man
Who was too afraid to fly, so he never did land
But tell me, did the wind sweep you off your feet?
Did you finally get the chance to dance along the light of day
And head back to the Milky Way?
And tell me, did Venus blow your mind?
Was it everything you wanted to find, and did you miss me
While you were looking for yourself out there?
Can you imagine no love, pride, deep-fried chicken
Your best friend always sticking up for you
Even when I know you're wrong?
Can you imagine no first dance, freeze-dried romance
Five hour phone conversation
The best soy latte that you ever had, and me?
But tell me, did the wind sweep you off your feet?
Did you finally get the chance to dance along the light of day
And head back toward the Milky Way?
And tell me, did you sail across the sun?
Did you make it to the Milky Way to see the lights all faded
And that Heaven is overrated?
And tell me, did you fall for a shooting star?
One without a permanent scar, and then you miss me
While you were looking for yourself?

One of my favourite, but most confusing songs to sing, with several lyric lines very similar.

Billy Joel does this as well, but he, Sting, Stevie Wonder and too many others to mention are brilliant poets, that wrote stunning melodic lines to accompany them.

As far as self composition, not a hope in a hot place.
 
So great you're able to make a living doing what you do best. I checked out your site and listened to the sample. Really liked what you do. I'm no authority, but what you do strikes me as a different way or writing. Don't know if that makes sense but that's the only way I can put it across.

I did a lot of writing and recording at home in 2009 and part of 2010. My little journey was: I started on bass in 1969 and played full time in bands from 1971 through 1982. Guitar came much later in life. Got my first guitar in 1998 and progress was very, very slow due to the amount of hours I was working. The way I "learned" was just sitting down and seeing what I could come up with. Did that for years and as a result I have a box with about 50 cassettes that are filled with original snippets of potential idea's for songs. I couldn't begin to tell you what's on those tapes but I'd be willing to bet 95% of it is trash. Maybe one day I'll actually sit down and see if there's anything that might be useful.

Got laid off in January of 2009 and remained so until March of 2010. During that time (and other than trying to find a job) I finally had the time to try and do something. I wrote and recorded about 20 songs. Not saying they were great and not saying they were any good. I far as I was concerned I was learning how to do it and had no illusions of anything. The thing that surprised me was how much came out of me. I guess all those years of coming up with those little snippets was paying off. But my "writing career" came to a halt when I got called back to work in March of 2010 and that meant working 12 hours a night.

Long story short......A lot went down between then and now. I retired in March of 2020, had to deal with this, that and the other things. It's just lately where things have settled down and I have the time to at least come up with those little snippets again. Looking back on it, in my own way I was able to capture some magic back in 2009 and 2010 and I'm wondering if I can do it again. I'm much older now and life is very different than it was.
But that's up to me, isn't it? I'd love to find that place again. Write it, record it and say "cool! What's next?"
 
For me I was always most interested in my own music and ideas. I used the music of others to learn guitar further and help develop my own voice/style. I hear things and am a stickler for nuance and detail. At times, lyrics comes very easy to me and most times I hear the whole song, band parts, drums, cymbals, bass line, down to the littlest detail. Guitar riffs come the easiest to me out of all of the stuff.

The other side of me has a love for writing piano and voice music. Usually slow, simple gospel type stuff. That as well comes very easy to me. I hear all the piano melodies as I am coming up with the lyrics. The only problem is I am not a proper singer and I can't really play piano. I have worked with a lot of different people and have yet to really find anybody to sing it and play it like I would if I could. They get close but not totally there all the way through all the time. I have been fortunate enough to have a few of my songs played in churches I have been to via people I know but as touching as it is to hear the song I still can't get the thought out of my head that it wasn't quite right how they did it..(and they did it well).

So if it isn't thrash metal or death metal I am in the old gospel camp. What a conundrum I am in there..lol.
 
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It's interesting how differently folks react to lyrics.

That lyric evokes specific images for me. While no explanation is needed, here's how I break it down in my own head:

Black roof country - a metaphor for coal or industrial soot on the roofs, perhaps a dingy industrial or mining town, or just an old one. No gold pavements, ie, streets not paved with gold, working class. Even the birds are tired. Her eyes sparkle and remind him of silver horses running down light in the darkness. In the morning, she looks beautiful in the light. But the woman wants no strings attached, waits on the platform for a diesel train, and splits, making him sad.

He'll wait in line for her to come back, and lie with her for obvious reasons. She's kind in a tough crowd; her presence is consolation for a lost love that wounded him. Yellow tigers are perhaps anger in her eyes, She leaves, he goes back to sleep in the dark.

The beauty of a lyric like this is that it probably means something different to everyone, and no doubt meant something different to the person who wrote it. I think it's a very good metaphor of a love affair.

But that's my interpretation.
I've got to circle back to these Cream lyrics. When Pete Brown collaborated with Ginger Baker and then Jack Bruce, pure poetry was introduced, and yes (as 11 Top suggests) infused with the psychedelic intoxicants of the time. Those lyrics to White Room so vividly and imaginatively paint a picture while telling a story. Absolutely right, Les, the protagonist starts out in an industrial town where as you say, "Even the birds are tired." He speaks directly to her with the line "Silver horses ran down moonbeams in your dark eyes." Later we'll see a change in how he perceives her. Then, instead of simply stating she's leaving with a ticket in her hand while the train is idling, the image becomes "Platform ticket (yup, she's outta there), restless diesels (the idling train engines), goodbye windows (the large windows of the train itself) all more elegantly portrayed.

So, although he says he waits for her, he "feels his own need just beginning" as probably all of us have felt after being dumped. They meet again at a party, and although kind to him, this woman has changed. Now, he speaks not to her but about her: "Yellow tigers, crouched in jungles, in her dark eyes." A far cry from what was previously in those eyes.

Then, open to interpretation we hear "She's just dressing, goodbye windows, tired starlings" and the image of him back with the lonely crowd sleeping in the dark. I first thought that she's dressing from the tryst they enjoyed at the party. Could be, but after later listenings, I think it's that she is now just window dressing, and he is over her, waiting for the next one to come his way (as they always did).

Disraeli Gears was a seminal album for me, just as Jeff Beck's "Truth" and Hendrix's "Are You Experienced?" were at the time. For you Cream fans out there, if you've never watched the Classic Albums DVD on the story behind the album, give yourself a treat and pick that up. Fascinating stories, video clips and interviews with the band and the two lyricists Pete Brown and Martin Sharp.

Humorous aside about the title of that album, don't know if I picked this up from the DVD or Philip Norman's biography "Slowhand". At any rate, Clapton was into biking (the pedal kind) at the time and was telling a friend in a car about his new bike, which had multiple gears. The driver asked Clapton if the bike was equipped with those new "Disraeli gears" mixing up the name of the UK prime minister Benjamin Disraeli with the system of switching bicycle gears, the derailleur system. Clapton chuckled and the rest, as they say, is history.
 
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