First Post: Les Paul guy considering 408 Trem. Pros/cons of trem?

[WorldProtagonist]

Hi everyone,

First post here, been lurking and researching PRSs as my upcoming dream guitar purchase. My only electric for the past 15 years has been an Epiphone Les Paul Standard, which I have fitted with Seymour Duncan '59s, and Schaller locking tuners.

Originally I was thinking Gibson LP but once I started researching PRSs and playing some underwhelming LPs in guitar stores, I started leaning towards something different -- especially the 408 or Paul's Guitar with stoptail.

I recently tried the following guitars:
SC Custom 24
408 MT Pattern Thin trem
Paul's Guitar
P22

The 408 MT trem was my favourite. Overall I liked both the feel and sound of it the most.

And now I am unexpectedly leaning towards a tremolo over a stoptail. I have a feeling the floating bridge helped it feel a little more alive and different, even without a whammy bar in. Thing is, I don't really know what to expect regarding tuning problems, stability, etc. having owned exclusively stoptail in the past. What should an LP guy expect from life with a trem? How much tougher are alternate tunings for example? How do you find the feel and sound differs? How often does the whammy bar actually get used? Try to convince me for or against the trem.

I have googled opinions and searched the forum but would also like to see what advice you have specifically for me.

I play blues, rock, and a lot of clean chord/arpeggio based stuff but also like to play some Metal and love soloing.

thanks,
Adam

 

[CoreyT]

I have a 2013 408 MT Pattern Thin neck, best guitar I have ever owned.
Welcome to the forum.

 

[László]

I also have a 408 MT, Pattern Thin, with Trem. In fact mine's the same color as Corey's. I absolutely love it.

The PRS trem stays in tune very well (assuming as with any guitar that it's got a proper setup). The bridge pickup has classic tones, and the neck pickup is by virtue of its design less muddy than many traditional neck humbuckers, and to my thinking is extremely useful for soloing. The split coil modes are superb; they sound like the buckers, but it's as though the buckers suddenly become true single coils, with a sharper attack, more high end, etc.

I am not a huge trem user, either, but I find that having the trem on the guitar adds a certain resonance that's hard to describe, but works really well. I had a stop tail Signature Limited (limited run preceding the 408 with the same pickups), and find that the trem sustains as well and its action is something I have a slight preference for.

Hope this helps!

 

[WorldProtagonist]

I also have a 408 MT, Pattern Thin, with Trem. In fact mine's the same color as Corey's. I absolutely love it.

The PRS trem stays in tune very well (assuming as with any guitar that it's got a proper setup). The bridge pickup has classic tones, and the neck pickup is by virtue of its design less muddy than many traditional neck humbuckers, and to my thinking is extremely useful for soloing. The split coil modes are superb; they sound like the buckers, but it's as though the buckers suddenly become true single coils, with a sharper attack, more high end, etc.

I am not a huge trem user, either, but I find that having the trem on the guitar adds a certain resonance that's hard to describe, but works really well. I had a stop tail Signature Limited (limited run preceding the 408 with the same pickups), and find that the trem sustains as well and its action is something I have a slight preference for.

Hope this helps!

Thanks, that's very helpful.

My own impression of The 408 was that it had a musical resonance that I found to be above and beyond the other guitars I tried.
I like the slimmer lighter body as well, and how the neck felt like a beefy Gibson baseball ball by the nut but more of a solo machine in the upper register. Overall a very Gibson feeling neck, so I felt at home (I feel very lost on Fenders although 24 fret necks do intrigue me). I also liked the selector system. But mostly what struck me was how fantastic the wide bridge hum bucker sounded when playing clean. Normally I would almost always avoid the bridge pickup for cleans to avoid ear-splitting and annoying highs, but this sounded bright, wide and smooth without sounding annoying or harsh.
And with the ability to coil tap it so effectively I'm not too worried about it lacking bite when playing heavy stuff.

So I'm definitely sold on the 408. Still would like to hear more trem vs stoptail opinions.


EDIT: could you please elaborate on the difference in action between the Sig Ltd. and the 408 trem? Does the trem actually facilitate lower action or does it just feel springer or what? Thanks.

 

[TFC]

The trem should not affect the action. Having 6 saddles allows for height adjustments of each string individually, which is different from stoptails (at least the ones I've had). Bending notes is a little easier on a trem, since there is less resistance from the bridge. But at the same time, playing & bending double-stops in tune is more difficult with a floating trem because bending one string will slacken the other strings. For that same reason, alternate tunings on a floating trem are much more difficult to configure. Something like a Tremol-No will help you with drop tunings. But anything where you are both raising and lowering string pitches from your normal tuning will most likely require more time to set up. If you break a string, all the other strings will go out of tune with the floating trem, which makes it difficult to finish the song you're playing without switching guitars. How much you will use the trem is really up to you, of course. I never used to keep my trems floating until I got a PRS. The PRS stays in tune very well and I've become addicted to using it. Worst case, if you don't like the trem you can always block it so that it remains fixed like a stoptail bridge.

 

[John Beef]

In 2006 when I bought my first PRS I was a bonafide hardtail guy. I was exactly like you, I didn't know I wanted a PRS and I didn't know I wanted one with a trem. Coming from F style partscasters, I was going shopping for a guitar with humbuckers, probably a SG. The PRS really blew me away. I bought it and it's still my main guitar.

There are lots of ways to block a trem. I installed a tremol-no in mine. You get to keep the tone and feel and still have a hardtail.

 

[WorldProtagonist]

The tremol-no seems like a great idea, thanks.

 

[László]

The trem should not affect the action...Bending notes is a little easier on a trem, since there is less resistance from the bridg.

This is what I meant when I said I slightly prefer the trem action, the bending notes thing.

I was using the term perhaps too loosely.

 

[alantig]

David Grissom said having the trem is kind of like having a built-in reverb - he said he didn't know if that was the correct technical term, but it added something to the guitar that he likes, so that's why his sig model has the trem.

I personally prefer the trem, if only because I find myself reaching for it when it's not there. Not a big dive-bomb guy, so take that for what it's worth.

The switching system on the 408 is fabulous, although in a perfect for me world, it would have the three-way toggle instead of the blade switch. But that's personal preference.

As far as alternate tunings go, there will be some setup likely involved, but I think if you're someone who plays in one tuning all (or most) of the time, the pain is somewhat minimal once you have your setup. If you're someone like MIchael Hedges, who switched to a different tuning for almost every song, the pain will be much greater.

The 408s are great - mine is a standard, and it's handled everything I've thrown at it.

 

[Rider1260]

I find the 408 to be very EQ netural
Not to bright / not to dark
It just works, pickups have a bunch of output they works great with pedals and long cable runs.
The split is great fun , it has the most useful center switch position ( both pickups ) of any guitar I have ever played.
Also you can find the standard with a rosewood neck if you are trying to enter crackwood land

 

[blaren]

The trem should not affect the action. Having 6 saddles allows for height adjustments of each string individually, which is different from stoptails (at least the ones I've had). Bending notes is a little easier on a trem, since there is less resistance from the bridge. But at the same time, playing & bending double-stops in tune is more difficult with a floating trem because bending one string will slacken the other strings. For that same reason, alternate tunings on a floating trem are much more difficult to configure. Something like a Tremol-No will help you with drop tunings. But anything where you are both raising and lowering string pitches from your normal tuning will most likely require more time to set up. If you break a string, all the other strings will go out of tune with the floating trem, which makes it difficult to finish the song you're playing without switching guitars. How much you will use the trem is really up to you, of course. I never used to keep my trems floating until I got a PRS. The PRS stays in tune very well and I've become addicted to using it. Worst case, if you don't like the trem you can always block it so that it remains fixed like a stoptail bridge.

BINGO!!
Saved me a bunch of typing. Thanks.

 

[Herr Squid]

As trems go, the PRS tremolo bridge plus Phase 3 tuners work brilliantly. You should have very little trouble keeping the guitar tuned unless you go berserk with the bar. I don't actually grab the bar very much, but I find I prefer a trem unless I want to play alternate tunings.

 

[WorldProtagonist]

Regarding alternate tunings: If I installed a tremol-no, could I just lock down the trem when I played on alternate tunings? Then not use it again until I switched back to standard? How would the stability be then?