Extension cabs for outdoors with a 22 watt amp

[Mike D]

Long question here:

I have a fender supersonic 22 with a weber chicago speaker. It sounds great and is super loud indoors. Outdoors with only vocals mic'd, the amp couldn't keep up with the drummer and bass running a stack. I ran a 112 extension cab with another 8 ohm weber chicago. Result was better dispersion but more break up on the cleans than I could live with.

My goal is higher clean decibels.

Option 1: Supersonic 22 combo off the ground with 16 ohm A type celestion. Extension output to 16 ohm Avatar closed back vertical 212 cab loaded with 2 Weber Chicago 8 ohm speakers (wired to equal 16ohms). Then, avatar cab's output to 112 cab with a 16 ohm celestion V type off the ground.

Summary: Internal combo speaker at 16ohms and total leg on the extension output would be 8 ohms equaling 5.3 total to the transformer. May present an imbalance between the 16 ohm internal and 8 ohm external, unless the fender shares the load between internal and external speakers somehow. ?

Option 2: use an 8 ohm eminence swamp thang on the bottom of the 212 and keep the 8 ohm weber chicago in the combo. This would yield at total of 4 ohms on the fender's output transformer. This would be a heavier load on the transformer, but might be more balanced between internal and external speakers.

Summary: Internal speaker at 8 ohms and the leg of external 212 to 112 equaling 8 will yield a load of 4 to the amp. According to the fender service guy on the phone, half of the rated ohms is fine.

Thank you for your help.

 

[László]

22 Watts can’t really generate enough clean power for an outdoor gig, regardless of speaker choice, and the more speakers you drive, the more resistance, and therefore, the more power you need to stay clean.

Your best bet is a very efficient speaker, like an EVM12L, that’ll get loud with lower power amps, but I think even that might be disappointing with low power if you want clean tone.

This is why 100 Watt amps were invented.

 

[andy474x]

Playing outdoors will suck a lot of volume away from your rig in a hurry!

Do you have the option of micing your amp and going through the PA? That would be my first go-to if you can, you're going to get better sound dispersion and keep the tone you like, for one. Trying to keep up with the band just with the amp is tough - if you're playing an open back, which I believe your Supersonic is, you're losing a great deal of sound out the back of the amp, and you don't have any walls to bounce it back toward the crowd. Inside, they're nice because you get that reflection, and they're much less directional than a closed back, so your sound spreads around the room relatively evenly. And that brings us to closed back amps and cabs, which direct all the sound out the front, but they beam like a mofo, so a few people are going to get the skin ripped off their face if they're in the direct line of fire, and the rest will hear muddy poo that's mostly bass end if they're off to the side. Just like mic placement on an amp speaker, very directional.

If that's not an option, I would try to get to that 8 ohm load on the amp. From my limited knowledge of amps, it's not good to under-load an amp with too little resistance, hard on the output section, don't ask me why or how. I do know that it's generally ok to go over, but that cuts the volume and headroom down, so that 8 ohms is your sweet spot where you'll get the most volume without damaging your amp. I don't get why Fender doesn't tap their OT's for different speaker loads, it's ultra lame. I've got a Vibrolux that's recommended for 4 ohms, and like yours, the stock speaker hits that, so either you change your internal speaker load and always use an extension cab, or just never use an extension... not convenient.

Go for the highest sensitivity speakers you can, like Les said. The EV's are insane for that, if you like the tone. Another option might be to choose something that has a lot of mid cut too, Vintage 30, or one of the higher sensitivity Greenback clones (Emi Private Jack, etc.), couple the high output of those speakers with the midrange emphasis and you might come through better.

Even despite all that, trying to push 22 watts, clean, outside, with an open back amp, is gonna be tough. I bet a Celestion V-type would be another good speaker choice, if you buy one from PRS you can get it with a 50 watt Sonzera around it!

 

[shinksma]

Yeah, miking up the speaker cab is the only way to solve that issue without getting a new 100W amp with maybe a 4x10 or 4x12 cab.

 

[Birdsofprey]

More wattage for outdoors, the sound just seems to disappear. A 50 watt combo would do it even with a single 12". And of course a band that understands dynamics.

 

[BrianC]

At practice I use a 15 watt head and a 2X12 - plenty loud enough. At gigs I use a 100 watt head and a 4X12.

I previously thought like you and had a 1X12 as well. I thought that 2 heads and 3 cab choices would be great. For me the 1X12 was perfect for home or jamming with a friend but not for the band situation not mic'ed.

 

[JJJ]

The real solution is to mic the cab. Unless you absolutely couldn't for some reason, and then I guess no matter what you are playing through it isn't an ideal situation.

Even if you're running a 50 or 100w amp through a 4x12, you're going to sound too loud or too washed out depending on where you are standing, and depending on where someone stands in your audience. You might think, finally, I can hear myself, and yet half the audience can no longer hear the vocals, or the other half still can't hear you and the vocals in the PA are too loud because they've had to be turned up

 

[Mike D]

Thank you