Dragon 1 Treble

[Screamingdaisy]

What do you guys suppose PRS was going for when he designed this pickup?

Interestingly, I'm finding the pickup seems to sound best into a crunchy amp with the pickup dialled back to around 5-7 on the guitar volume knob. On 10 it generally sounds like crap for rhythm but great for lead.

I've seen others mention this too.

I'm curious if this was intended design... make a pickup that sounds like a (somewhat) normal pickup with the volume on 5?

If your goal is to control the amp from your guitar that's a pretty good design, seeing as running everything on 10 as a default means you need external pedals if you want the option of hitting the amp harder.

Of course, I could see that being problematic too since the average guitarist doesn't seem to know how to use his volume/tone knobs and defaults to leaving everything on full all of the time.

 

[László]

Paul seemed to like very hot pickups for a while.

 

[AP515]

I think it was the times they lived in. They were coming out of the hair metal, grunge, arena rock days. Hotter pickups were "hot" then. As I see it, Paul did not push a vintage tone. He was after cutting edge stuff. As I look at the progression of pickups in the company, I see a vintage sounding neck and a powerful bridge at the beginning and a lower output clearer pickup set at the present.

 

[Screamingdaisy]

I think it was the times they lived in. They were coming out of the hair metal, grunge, arena rock days. Hotter pickups were "hot" then. As I see it, Paul did not push a vintage tone. He was after cutting edge stuff. As I look at the progression of pickups in the company, I see a vintage sounding neck and a powerful bridge at the beginning and a lower output clearer pickup set at the present.

But, he could've just installed an HFS, which from everything I've read isn't all that far off from the Duncan Custom.

Instead he went for a totally different kind of sound.

 

[Shizzrock]

What do you guys suppose PRS was going for when he designed this pickup?

Interestingly, I'm finding the pickup seems to sound best into a crunchy amp with the pickup dialled back to around 5-7 on the guitar volume knob. On 10 it generally sounds like crap for rhythm but great for lead.

I've seen others mention this too.

I'm curious if this was intended design... make a pickup that sounds like a (somewhat) normal pickup with the volume on 5?

If your goal is to control the amp from your guitar that's a pretty good design, seeing as running everything on 10 as a default means you need external pedals if you want the option of hitting the amp harder.

Of course, I could see that being problematic too since the average guitarist doesn't seem to know how to use his volume/tone knobs and defaults to leaving everything on full all of the time.

I actually feel this way about the HFS. The Dragon IMO is one of the smoothest high gain bridge pickups I've ever heard. It sounds great clean. If anything it may be too dark for some, but I think it's perfect.

 

[WEDGE]

Agreed, the Dragon is perfect for crunchy high gain stuff. If that isn’t your bag so be it.

 

[gush]

I think the dragon 1s are pretty versatile pickups and I love em. If you always run em on 10 they become a one trick pony.
Just don't do that and you'll be fine.

 

[AP515]

But, he could've just installed an HFS, which from everything I've read isn't all that far off from the Duncan Custom.

Instead he went for a totally different kind of sound.

And knowing PRSH, what about that statement surprises you?

 

[Screamingdaisy]

And knowing PRSH, what about that statement surprises you?

And how does this stop me from asking my original question?

 

[AP515]

And how does this stop me from asking my original question?

Why does it seem like we're going around in circles?

 

[kes7u]

What do you guys suppose PRS was going for when he designed this pickup?

Interestingly, I'm finding the pickup seems to sound best into a crunchy amp with the pickup dialled back to around 5-7 on the guitar volume knob. On 10 it generally sounds like crap for rhythm but great for lead.

I've seen others mention this too.

I'm curious if this was intended design... make a pickup that sounds like a (somewhat) normal pickup with the volume on 5?

If your goal is to control the amp from your guitar that's a pretty good design, seeing as running everything on 10 as a default means you need external pedals if you want the option of hitting the amp harder.

Of course, I could see that being problematic too since the average guitarist doesn't seem to know how to use his volume/tone knobs and defaults to leaving everything on full all of the time.

As others have mentioned, he was going for a different type of high gain pickup, different in many ways to the HFS. Your description of a high gain pickup that also provides other different and useful sounds at different guitar volume levels seems like a dream to most guitarists. So I guess perhaps I'm just not understanding your question?? Is it because you like the HFS and didn't see any reason for any other high gain pickups from PRS, or do you just not like high gain pickups?

Kevin

 

[vchizzle]

As I remember it, the Dragon I pickups were designed when PRS began making 22 fret guitars? HFS/VB were made for 24 fretters. I could be wrong, but that's how I remember it. The Dragon II came as they were dialing back the "heat" a bit. That was around the time much higher gain heads the Recto and 5150 became much more common.

 

[kes7u]

As I remember it, the Dragon I pickups were designed when PRS began making 22 fret guitars? HFS/VB were made for 24 fretters. I could be wrong, but that's how I remember it. The Dragon II came as they were dialing back the "heat" a bit. That was around the time much higher gain heads the Recto and 5150 became much more common.

Did not know any of that. Thank you!

Kevin

 

[vchizzle]

Did not know any of that. Thank you!

Kevin

That may not be entirely accurate FWIW. Just what my foggy brain thinks it remembers.

 

[Screamingdaisy]

As others have mentioned, he was going for a different type of high gain pickup, different in many ways to the HFS. Your description of a high gain pickup that also provides other different and useful sounds at different guitar volume levels seems like a dream to most guitarists. So I guess perhaps I'm just not understanding your question?? Is it because you like the HFS and didn't see any reason for any other high gain pickups from PRS, or do you just not like high gain pickups?

Not entirely sure why everyone's so defensive, I'm legitimately just curious about what PRS was going for when he designed the Dragon 1.

Sometimes it's nice to have insight into what the designer was thinking when he designed it.

 

[kes7u]

Not entirely sure why everyone's so defensive, I'm legitimately just curious about what PRS was going for when he designed the Dragon 1.

Sometimes it's nice to have insight into what the designer was thinking when he designed it.

I get it. I think more than anything I was responding to your post questioning why he didn't simply use an HFS. Not sure WHY he felt the need for another high gain pickup, but as you know, it certainly functions and sounds very different. Sorry, but no insight into his thought process!

Kevin

 

[Mark Ray]

All I know is that I LOVE the Dragon1's in my '95 Cu22. They will NEVER leave it's body ya'll!

 

[gush]

All I know is that I LOVE the Dragon1's in my '95 Cu22. They will NEVER leave it's body ya'll!

Same here. I've got a CE with dragon 1s and zero desire to change pickups.

 

[Lewguitar]

I like the Dragon 1 set and I prefer using it with the rotary switch so I can get the single coil sounds in positions 2 and 4 and the big middle humbucker sound in the #3 position. But it's not the two humbuckers combined...it's actually one stud coil from each pickup in series to create a middle humbucking pickup. It's a different sound from two humbuckers combined.

It's an extremely versatile set when used with the rotary switch and not a one trick pony if used as a set.

The tone of the Dragon 1 neck is 50's PAF.

The tone of the Dragon 1 bridge by itself is 80's soaring rock tone. Same ball park as a Duncan JB, Duncan Distortion, Dimarzio Super Distortion, etc.

But the Dragon 1 bridge is smoother. The treble is not so sizzley as a stock JB or slightly metallic or shrill as a Duncan Custom. It doesn't sound like the stereotypical overwound ceramic pickup with sizzley highs.

I do need a vintage PAF sound too. I'd miss it if I didn't.

So I have Duncan Antiquitys in two of my PRS guitars for a lower output, more 50's/60's kind of sound when I want to sound like BB King, or Clapton with Cream, or Mike Bloomfield with Butterfield, or Peter Green with the Bluesbreakers or Larry Carlton with the Crusaders or Steely Dan. Or just like myself.

Maybe the Dragon II set replaced the Dragon 1 set maybe because Paul thought that by the late 90's the overdriven rock anthem tone was becoming dated? But compared to the Dragon 1 set, the Dragon II set is a little bland by comparison. It's good...just not as exciting.

A one trick pony like the Dragon 1 bridge can be pretty satisfying if it's a good trick!

But again, using the Dragon I's as a set with the rotary switch and having those middle three sounds that are unavailable otherwise is how I use it.

And then, it's hardly a one trick pony.











.

 

[Lewguitar]

I actually feel this way about the HFS. The Dragon IMO is one of the smoothest high gain bridge pickups I've ever heard. It sounds great clean. If anything it may be too dark for some, but I think it's perfect.

I've never heard it as being too dark. I hear other high output pickups and having too much sizzle though.

For me, the Dragon 1 does its thing so well that that's all I do with it. Play 80's soaring guitar solos.

So I have to have other pickups in other guitars for other sounds. Mostly vintage 50's and 60's sounds.

Really, that's all I need. 50's and 60's sounds from PAF type buckers, and then the Dragon 1 set for modern sounds...from the 1980's!