Dragon 1 -> ? Pickup progression history

[Lewguitar]

Since I'm using the three way toggle it will have to be reversed from using the five way, but I don't recall which wire is hot, white or black on thr Dragon bridge when using the 5-way. I wish I remembered.
I'll figure it out.

Still odd why my 01 SC was like that without splitting!

That diagram doesn't show the hot wire but assuming it's the white for both pickups. So I'll try black for hot in this case. I think that's what I had to do for the Tremonti in the bridge.

You might want to verify that your two Dragon pickups are out of phase.

Press the two together, face to face, screw polepieces to screw polepieces, slug polepieces to slug polepieces.

Do they attract? Or do they repel?

If they repel they are IN PHASE and you won't have to reverse leads on either pickup if you're using a 3 way switch.

If they attract they are OUT OF PHASE and you will have to reverse leads on ONE pickup only,

 

[boardn10]

Lew, the neck Pickup is in the guitar. I don't want o remove it.
My tech removed the bridge and installed the Tremonti. I want to go back to the D1 bridge, I just don't recall what wire was hot and which was ground. I think my SC250 and Tremonti white is hot so I had to use black for hot.
In my SC 01, I also had to reverse to work with the #7 neck.
I won't over think it. I'll try black as hot and if it's wrong, I'll flip them.
Whether the magnets are out of phase or not still won't tell me which wires to use, right?
Pont is, I don't know what reversing leads would look like because the Dragon 1 bridge is not in the guitar now. I have no idea which is the hot and ground in stock form. I'll look for an old diagram.

From the diagram you shared, I believe black is ground. Hence, in stock for my CE22 with the five way rotary had the Dragon bridge with the white as hot. This would be pickups reversed phase.
I'll install it with the black as hot and see if that works.

Honestly, if my five way rotary hadn't failed, I would left it alone. Plus I never used the single coil type tones because the volume dropped too much.

 

[Lewguitar]

Les, the neck Pickup is in the guitar. I don't want o remove it.
My tech removed the bridge and installed the Tremonti. I want to go back to the D1 bridge, I just don't recall what wire was hot and which was ground. I think my SC250 and Tremonti white is hot so I had to use black for hot.
In my SC 01, I also had to reverse to work with the #7 neck.
I won't over think it. I'll try black as hot and if it's wrong, I'll flip them.
Whether the magnets are out of phase or not still won't tell me which wires to use, right?
Pont is, I don't know what reversing leads would look like because the Dragon 1 bridge is not in the guitar now. I have no idea which is the hot and ground in stock form. I'll look for an old diagram.

You don't have to remove the neck pickup.

Just hold your bridge pickup face to face to it. It's already out of the guitar, right?

 

[boardn10]

I believe if you're still using the rotary switch you can match the colors of the neck pickup and NOT flip them.

But if you're now using a 3 way switch you'll need to reverse the leads. I think one's black and one's red.

So in one pickup the red would be attached to ground and in the other black would be attached to ground.

I'll have to check if it's Red and Black or White and Black. On my newer PRS pickups, hot and ground are White and Black.

 

[boardn10]

You don't have to remove the neck pickup.

Just hold your bridge pickup face to face to it. It's already out of the guitar, right?

I see what you mean.
And I think you are correct, red is hot on these pickups. So, most likely since you said these were always reversed for the 5-way switch, I'll have to use the black as hot for the bridge and red as ground. That should do it.

If they repel or attract, will that still help? All I should need to know is that red is hot and they are reversed for the 5-way, so I'll flip those for the bridge. Should be it.

I think holding the pickups together would be more if I thought about flipping the magnet. I say that because we already know they are reverse in stock form.

 

[boardn10]

My '95 and '97 CE22's have Dragon 1's.

I think by '99 PRS had made the switch to Dragon 2's.

Big mistake, IMO.

Lots of guys like the Dragon II bridge as people say it's really warm and fat due to the A IV magnet.

 

[boardn10]

You might want to verify that your two Dragon pickups are out of phase.

Press the two together, face to face, screw polepieces to screw polepieces, slug polepieces to slug polepieces.

Do they attract? Or do they repel?

If they repel they are IN PHASE and you won't have to reverse leads on either pickup.

If they attract they are OUT OF PHASE and you will have to reverse leads on ONE pickup only,

I see what you are saying.
And this would hold true for me using the 3-way toggle switch?

Since the guitar came stock with the 5-way, I think they are out of phase, magnets flipped. Otherwise maybe PRS just installed them with the leads flipped? Not sure.

 

[Lewguitar]

I see what you are saying.
And this would hold true for me using the 3-way toggle switch?

Since the guitar came stock with the 5-way, I think they are out of phase, magnets flipped. Otherwise maybe PRS just installed them with the leads flipped? Not sure.

Just go for it!

 

[boardn10]

I prefer the Tremonti Bridge pickup in my CE22 over the stock Dragon 1.
The D1 bridge to me is great at thick leads but I preferred the Tremonti for everything, clean to mean, rhythm to lead. For the Dragon bridge pickup, I just had to roll off low end and turn up treble and presence to get what I wanted.
Personally preference.
My Dragons have red hot lead wires, yet none of my newer PRS pickups have a red hot wire.
To get the Dragon bridge pickup to work with a 3-way toggle, I had to reverse the hot and ground wires as Lew suggested.

 

[Lewguitar]

I prefer the Tremonti Bridge pickup in my CE22 over the stock Dragon 1.
The D1 bridge to me is great at thick leads but I preferred the Tremonti for everything, clean to mean, rhythm to lead. For the Dragon bridge pickup, I just had to roll off low end and turn up treble and presence to get what I wanted.
Personally preference.
My Dragons have red hot lead wires, yet none of my newer PRS pickups have a red hot wire.
To get the Dragon bridge pickup to work with a 3-way toggle, I had to reverse the hot and ground wires as Lew suggested.

Thick leads describes the Dragon 1 bridge pickup. Especially with a great overdrive pedal and Marshall style amp.

A 1959 Alnico 4 PAF describes the neck Dragon 1.

You're right about thick leads from the Dragon 1 bridge pickup. Thick and smooth with just the right amount of crunchy sizzle for my tastes. A big time rock sound that gets pretty close to those Gary Moore, Santana and Tom Scholz overdriven tones.

Not a lot of breath or space in the thick lead tone but that doesn't bother me because that thick smooth lead sound is what I'm after when I pick up my CE22's.

And it's not really limited. It's just kind of limited to overdriven sounds. That's what it does best.

I play my guitars with 57/08's more often but I love those Dragon 1's.

 

[gush]

I have a wiring question. Not sure who would know.

I had my tech install a Tremonti bridge pickup in my CE22 with my stock Dragon 1 neck pickup.

I think I want to go back to the Dragon 1 bridge.

For rhe Tremonti, he had to reverse polarity, flip the wires to make it work. Should I wore in the Dragon the same way? Same color coding?

The guitar originally had the five way rotary but now it has a toggle switch and no splitting.

I'm assuming I can just drop in the Dragon as the Tremonti is wired.

https://imgur.com/a/oCf8JRv

If the D1 was a factory installed PU and guitar came from factory with rotary then the pickup magnet was already flipped to reverse polarity.

The wires were flipped on tremonti to make the pickup in phase for middle position on toggle.

 

[Fats]

Thanks for the link on the 5 way rotary. Glad to have the info, though no intention to swap out my rotary dials. I’ve got 2 CU22’s, both w stop tail bridges and 5 way rotary. My ‘96 with Dragon I’s, and my ‘06 20th with Dragon II’s. Love the Dragon pups - both issues. I’ve never felt the need to replace the 5 way rotary. I guess I have a thing for the character of the models as issued. I have others with blades and toggles to play with..

 

[boardn10]

What do you guys do to improve the clarity and tightness in the low end with the Dragon 1?
Do you just run your amps low end low and turn up treble and presence
We had a gig where when I pulled out the CE22 for some songs, my tone was significantly darker.

 

[Lewguitar]

What do you guys do to improve the clarity and tightness in the low end with the Dragon 1?
Do you just run your amps low end low and turn up treble and presence
We had a gig where when I pulled out the CE22 for some songs, my tone was significantly darker.

Switching from a Strat to a Les Paul to a PRS with Dragon 1's would require some amp adjustments for sure!

I've never heard the Dragon 1's in my CE22's as being darker than the 57/08's in my other PRS guitars though.

 

[boardn10]

Switching from a Strat to a Les Paul to a PRS with Dragon 1's would require some amp adjustments for sure!

I've never heard the Dragon 1's in my CE22's as being darker than the 57/08's in my other PRS guitars though.

Oh yes!
It's why at a gig I tend to stick with guitars that sound somewhat similar.
The D1 bridge in my CE is darker than my other guitar/pickup combinations.
Every guitar is different. I may just have a darker sounding CE.
Love the guitar. I ended up selling my 2006 Custom 22 because I thought the CE just sounded better.

 

[Lewguitar]

Oh yes!
It's why at a gig I tend to stick with guitars that sound somewhat similar.
The D1 bridge in my CE is darker than my other guitar/pickup combinations.
Every guitar is different. I may just have a darker sounding CE.
Love the guitar. I ended up selling my 2006 Custom 22 because I thought the CE just sounded better.

I think CE22's sound better than CU22's too. Livlier. Bouncier.

 

[gush]

What do you guys do to improve the clarity and tightness in the low end with the Dragon 1?
Do you just run your amps low end low and turn up treble and presence
We had a gig where when I pulled out the CE22 for some songs, my tone was significantly darker.

When I'd gig my ce22 through my old 5150 rig I had both pickups set really low in the PU rings.

I thought that made them sound better. More note clarity and no woofy stuff. With volume pot rolled down all positions cleaned up a bit and were very usable.