Dragon 1 -> ? Pickup progression history

[joshoptical]

Hey gang. Fiddling with my 93 CE22 with Dragon 1s got me wondering about the history of humbucker progression at PRS. Specifically, when the 1s were eliminated and whether the models they were used in were all and immediately replaced with 2s, or if some were replaced with other humbuckers.

Hopefully this will be helpful to some other folks as well. Thanks all!



PS- hopefully before the “Search the forums before you bother us with a new thread” crowd jumps in, I’ll clarify 1) that it’s not easy to find a clear answer to this specific question in one place, and 2) moreover that people come to forums to interact and connect with other enthusiasts and experienced users at least as much as to find 0s and 1s data. Look forward to doing more of that.

 

[Broseph]

I can do a further investigation if you take out those dragon 1’s and send them my way to cherish

 

[joshoptical]

I can do a further investigation if you take out those dragon 1’s and send them my way to cherish

haha if they weren’t worth what they are I would! Not particularly usable!

 

[Permanent Waves]

Interesting questions - I was recently trying to figure some of the specs on my PRS guitars and found some interesting discoveries. There is a link to the model history below which has a lot of good information.

The original PRS guitars from 1985 had Standard Bass and Standard Treble pickups (CU24 from 1985, CE24 from 88). They changed to HFS/Vintage bass around 1990 or so (site says 1991 but I have a 1990 with HFS/VB).
The Custom 22 was introduced in 1993 and based off the Dragon, so it had Dragon 1 pickups which were usually uncovered (24 fret models still came with HFS/VB, stayed that way for a while). CE22 came in 1994, also with Dragon 1.
Dragon 2 pickups were introduced in 1998 (they were generally covered pickups), and PRS was still putting Dragons in 22-fret models CU/CE and HFS/VB in 24-frets CU/CE. Anecdotally speaking, it seems most players prefer Dragon 1.
I think things stayed that way up to 2008, but after that, I am lost since I don't have any PRS guitars from this millennium .

https://prsguitars.com/index.php/support/article/model_history

 

[AP515]

That seems about right. I have a 92 CE22 with Dragon 1's and I love the tone. Really aggressive but not harsh.

 

[boardn10]

Old post but giving some Dragon love.

 

[boardn10]

I have a wiring question. Not sure who would know.

I had my tech install a Tremonti bridge pickup in my CE22 with my stock Dragon 1 neck pickup.

I think I want to go back to the Dragon 1 bridge.

For rhe Tremonti, he had to reverse polarity, flip the wires to make it work. Should I wore in the Dragon the same way? Same color coding?

The guitar originally had the five way rotary but now it has a toggle switch and no splitting.

I'm assuming I can just drop in the Dragon as the Tremonti is wired.

https://imgur.com/a/oCf8JRv

 

[Mark Ray]

Ya'll know the drill, anytime this subject comes up:

DRAGON 1'S FOR THE WIN!

 

[Lewguitar]

My '95 and '97 CE22's have Dragon 1's.

I think by '99 PRS had made the switch to Dragon 2's.

Big mistake, IMO.

 

[DISTORT6]

https://imgur.com/a/oCf8JRv

It’s beauuuuuuutiful!

 

[Lewguitar]

I have a wiring question. Not sure who would know.

I had my tech install a Tremonti bridge pickup in my CE22 with my stock Dragon 1 neck pickup.

I think I want to go back to the Dragon 1 bridge.

For rhe Tremonti, he had to reverse polarity, flip the wires to make it work. Should I wore in the Dragon the same way? Same color coding?

The guitar originally had the five way rotary but now it has a toggle switch and no splitting.

I'm assuming I can just drop in the Dragon as the Tremonti is wired.

https://imgur.com/a/oCf8JRv

The stock Dragon 1 bridge pickup and neck pickup are magnetically out of phase with each other so that they work properly with the 5 position rotary switch.

If you've changed that rotary switch to a 3 way switch you'll have to reverse the leads on the Dragon 1 bridge pickup for it to be "in phase" with the neck pickup. That's easy.

OR: you could loosen the baseplate, slide out the magnet, flip it around (or roll it over) and put it magnetically in phase with the neck pickup.

 

[boardn10]

Ya'll know the drill, anytime this subject comes up:

DRAGON 1'S FOR THE WIN!

I do have those in my CE22.

 

[boardn10]

The stock Dragon 1 bridge pickup and neck pickup are magnetically out of phase so that they work properly with the 5 position rotary switch.

If you've changed that rotary switch to a 3 way switch you'll have to reverse the leads on the Dragon 1 bridge pickup for it to be "in phase" with the neck pickup. That's easy.

OR: you could loosen the baseplate, slide out the magnet, flip it around (or roll it over) and put it magnetically in phase with the neck pickup.

Thanks Lou, I'll just do what I did with the Tremonti and flip the hot and ground wires. Thanks.

So would you be colors match the neck, white for hot or black for hot? I don't recall how it was stock.

 

[boardn10]

My '95 and '97 CE22's have Dragon 1's.

I think by '99 PRS had made the switch to Dragon 2's.

Big mistake, IMO.

I tried the Tremonti but I'm going back to the D1.

 

[Lewguitar]

Thanks Lou, I'll just do what I did with the Tremonti and flip the hot and ground wires. Thanks.

So would you be colors match the neck, white for hot or black for hot? I don't recall how it was stock.

I believe if you're still using the rotary switch you can match the colors of the neck pickup and NOT flip them.

But if you're now using a 3 way switch you'll need to reverse the leads. I think one's black and one's red.

So in one pickup the red would be attached to ground and in the other black would be attached to ground.

 

[boardn10]

One of my friends builds pickups and he always says to avoid pickups made with a ceramic magnet as they are weedy, harsh and shrill.

I don't think the Dragon 1 bridge is any of those. It's an anomaly in the ceramic world.

It's weird it'd thought because I have heard some pro players say they prefer ceramic for the structure and thickness it adds.

Too many variables to make generalizations.

 

[boardn10]

I believe if you're still using the rotary switch you can match the colors of the neck pickup.

Not sure.

I'd start with that.

No rotary, just a three way toggle. Dragon bridge and neck. I don't recall which was got for the bridge as my guitar tech remove bed it and installed the Tremonti.

So maybe I'll use the opposite for the bridge pickup.

It's got the Tremonti Bridge in there now and I read the Tremonti is one of the few pickups designed to be used with the 5-way.

Its confusing because #7s in my 01 SC must have had reversed polarity since when I installed the Suhr Aldridge bridge, I had to flip the hot and ground..
Yet, the guitar did not come with splitting.

I'll have to just try.

If anyone has a Dragon bridge and neck pickup set and they know which is the hot for the bridge, I'll use the reverse.

 

[boardn10]

Lee, much of it makes no sense to me.

I get why the pickups are reversed for the 5-way, but why are they reversed for standard 3-way toggle and split coil? Or why are they reverse polarity in a standard humbucker 3-way toggle and no splitting?

 

[Lewguitar]

Here. Use this link. It should be all here.

https://d159anurvk4929.cloudfront.net/documents/prs_custom5wayrotary_pre_2007.pdf

It's likely that you'll have to reverse the leads on one pickup only to get them in phase.

If I'm wrong, just do it over again and reverse them again and everything should work.

 

[boardn10]

Here. Use this link. It should be all here.

https://d159anurvk4929.cloudfront.net/documents/prs_custom5wayrotary_pre_2007.pdf

It's likely that you'll have to reverse the leads on one pickup only to get them in phase.

If I'm wrong, just do it over again and reverse them again and everything should work.

Since I'm using the three way toggle it will have to be reversed from using the five way, but I don't recall which wire is hot, white or black on thr Dragon bridge when using the 5-way. I wish I remembered.
I'll figure it out.

Still odd why my 01 SC was like that without splitting!

That diagram doesn't show the hot wire but assuming it's the white for both pickups. So I'll try black for hot in this case. I think that's what I had to do for the Tremonti in the bridge.