Don't show this to Les!!!

It is hard to argue with this. I did an experiment in my own home many years ago and was very surprised at the results. I still have the amps that I did this with. I have an early Peavey JSX 2x12 combo and a Mesa Roadster with a 2x12 sealed cabinet. I set the JSX on top of the Mesa cab then the Roadster head on the JSX. I plugged the JSX into the Mesa cab and the Roadster into the JSX open combo cab. It was a shock to me that the Roadster sounded very much like the JSX typically did and the JSX sounded very much like the Roadster typically did. The speakers and cabinets made up a huge amount of how those amps sounded. The circuits and tube types in the amps didn't seem to matter all that much in the equation.
 
The immediate problem I have is, I've had amps that switched tubes, and rectifier types and I easily heard a difference, where in his demo, there is very little difference. On my Rebel 20, switching tube types didn't make a huge difference, but it was clear and audible. On my ATMA, switching form tube to SS rectifier is a BIG difference. On my Mesa TA 15 and 30 (and other Mesa's that offer multiple power stage options) switching from Class A/B to Class A makes a big difference. He was flipping modes so quickly you didn't get much of a chance to even get a feel for one vs. the other.
 
The immediate problem I have is, I've had amps that switched tubes, and rectifier types and I easily heard a difference, where in his demo, there is very little difference. On my Rebel 20, switching tube types didn't make a huge difference, but it was clear and audible. On my ATMA, switching form tube to SS rectifier is a BIG difference. On my Mesa TA 15 and 30 (and other Mesa's that offer multiple power stage options) switching from Class A/B to Class A makes a big difference. He was flipping modes so quickly you didn't get much of a chance to even get a feel for one vs. the other.
And this is why I'm having a hard time accepting it.
 
Plus, the differences all these things make is not well demonstrated but a simple flip back and forth. Tube and SS rectifiers react differently. Class A/B vs. Class A is easily identifiable...once you push the power stage a bit. etc...
 
I'm serious... do not show Les this video!
All kidding aside I did find this interesting. That said I'm having a hard time accepting it.
Let the comments roll...



***EDIT***
All in fun mate! :)
This is kind of fun. But not very informative.

Fact is, preamp and tone stack design and tubes matter more with most amps than output tubes. And speaker and cab matter a whole lot. So does how much gain the preamp section is using.

But it's also hard to get a feel for the difference between amps in quick shots like this. You have to play the amp for a while. Different types need to have different EQ settings. Etc.

If we think there's no difference between, say, a Deluxe and a Marshall, or a Tweed and a blackface, or [insert amp comparison] then have at it. There are lots of differences in feel, tone, and envelope. If you think for one second that, say, my Lone Star sounds anything like my DG30, or my Fillmore, or my HXDA, I beg to differ.

Also, do not f#ck with Les. Les is very testy lately. ;)
 
This is kind of fun. But not very informative.

Fact is, preamp and tone stack design and tubes matter more with most amps than output tubes. And speaker and cab matter a whole lot. So does how much gain the preamp section is using.

But it's also hard to get a feel for the difference between amps in quick shots like this. You have to play the amp for a while. Different types need to have different EQ settings. Etc.

If we think there's no difference between, say, a Deluxe and a Marshall, or a Tweed and a blackface, or [insert amp comparison] then have at it. There are lots of differences in feel, tone, and envelope. If you think for one second that, say, my Lone Star sounds anything like my DG30, or my Fillmore, or my HXDA, I beg to differ.

Also, do not f#ck with Les. Les is very testy lately. ;)
Yeah, it is fun. He's good at presentation.
But I agree. Although my H and Custom 50 combos could sound similar, they are not the same. And certainly not the same as my Hot Rod Deluxe.
Some Kemper users like to use a standard guitar cab. That's great but to me it carves out much of the device's utility.
I prefer to hear the cab/speaker as originally intended.
 
I too have a hard time finding fault with his testing, but one thing I do know. Put an Orange amp next to a Fender and I'm going to hear a massive difference. Whatever they do or don't do differently, they sound worlds apart.
 
It is hard to argue with this. I did an experiment in my own home many years ago and was very surprised at the results. I still have the amps that I did this with. I have an early Peavey JSX 2x12 combo and a Mesa Roadster with a 2x12 sealed cabinet. I set the JSX on top of the Mesa cab then the Roadster head on the JSX. I plugged the JSX into the Mesa cab and the Roadster into the JSX open combo cab. It was a shock to me that the Roadster sounded very much like the JSX typically did and the JSX sounded very much like the Roadster typically did. The speakers and cabinets made up a huge amount of how those amps sounded. The circuits and tube types in the amps didn't seem to matter all that much in the equation.
I had a tiny Fender Frontman amp that I plugged into a Twin Reverb cab, bypassing the amp. It sounded really good.
 
What I think that video shows, more than anything, is that if you tweak a pair of amps enough, you can make them sound very similar to each other under certain playing conditions. Perhaps especially so with a Single Coil or low-output-pickup guitar like his tele.

And in one sense, by tweaking tone stack settings to get a flat eq, and then adding distortion from tube gain (which is going to happen in a similar way across all tubes because you are clipping that same flat-eq signal, introducing the same kind of higher order harmonics), you should end up with a very similar end-product signal.

And if you don't "push" the amp you don't get to introduce the "sag" you can get from a (pseudo-purposely) underpowered power section.

So the only thing left is the same kind of "flat/boring" signal going into whatever cab you use - thus the cab makes the biggest difference.

But:

What matters to me is what does the amp sound like when I dial in the sound that I think does best for that amp? If I can get my HXDA to sound a lot like my DG30, or vice versa, am I really getting the tone I like from either?

It's like all the guitarists who buy a new guitar, and swap out the pickups, nut, bridge, whatever, to make it sound like their favorite guitar they already own, because the new guitar "didn't sound right". Well, what was the point of that? Just play your older guitar.
 
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