Do you think the price of PRS guitars will go up in 2025?

[SinSir]

This is also true about S2 looking more appealing but those core pups and electrics have really raised those, I mean 3k+ for a new s2 now is hard to justify

I see closer to $2k? Are they $3k? GTFO with that too! Lol That's why I won't look at most of the bolt on releases. I would already own a MK or maybe a NF53. Even with some attractive offers I still passed. Sucks. But there's been a used deal or two that almost reeled me in.

 

[TheCraftsman]

Yep, well here in Europe a new S2 is sat at just above €3k

 

[TheCraftsman]

Maybe was just the one I saw googling but just done another search and still, for a standard S2 it’s £2000 so around 2.4-2.5k in Euro

 

[Daryl Jones]

I doubt I will ever buy another new PRS guitar (or any new guitar for that matter) again. I have my own thoughts on what will happen to prices of things here in Canada in the coming months and years. We are so dependent on American trade for our livelihood and the projected increase on tariffs is liable to put the entire Canadian retail market in a tailspin and even a horrible state of collapse. And I doubt that the electoral result one way or the other would have prevented that. Nor our own in the near future; it just is what it is when over 75% of your trade is with one giant partner.
But there are always deals on used to be had if I'm willing to be careful and patient, my S2 is proof of that. No more time to be impulsive and fall down that NGD rabbit hole...

 

[tdroid]

I doubt I will ever buy another new PRS guitar (or any new guitar for that matter) again. I have my own thoughts on what will happen to prices of things here in Canada in the coming months and years. We are so dependent on American trade for our livelihood and the projected increase on tariffs is liable to put the entire Canadian retail market in a tailspin and even a horrible state of collapse. And I doubt that the electoral result one way or the other would have prevented that. Nor our own in the near future; it just is what it is when over 75% of your trade is with one giant partner.
But there are always deals on used to be had if I'm willing to be careful and patient, my S2 is proof of that. No more time to be impulsive and fall down that NGD rabbit hole...

The one point that might help slow down the panic, if I understand this correctly, is that tariffs have to be specific to a particular item or industry. There's a chance the cost of Chinese guitars won't be heavily affected by them.

 

[archtop]

The one point that might help slow down the panic, if I understand this correctly, is that tariffs have to be specific to a particular item or industry. There's a chance the cost of Chinese guitars won't be heavily affected by them.

More production will be moved from China to Indonesia, Vietnam, etc.

The response to tariffs and US trade wars is retaliatory tariffs primarily targeting US agriculture leading to the US issuing massive supplemental subsidies (bailouts) for farmers; the world knows from past trade wars that the way to win is to hit US farmers and hit them hard. According to the Council On Foreign Relations (a US think tank) “92% of China Tariffs have gone to angry farmers” with bailouts totaling over $60 billion from 2018 through Oct. 2020 to offset the loss of exports (soybeans, corn, beef, pork, rice, etc.). All those higher prices we’re paying in the US are going to bailout farmers, while other countries are using their tariff revenues to bailout their preferred industries.

Targeted tariffs can also be an interesting strategy to help a new or struggling domestic producer by taxing imports to punish purchases of imports over domestic products. But that requires establishing and/or increasing domestic production before the tariffs so there’s no shortages or supply chain interruptions mucking up the economy.

Targeted tariffs to deal with dumping, currency manipulation and other unfair trade practices are certainly fair game, and as long as there’s excess domestic capacity to make up for the loss of imports domestic consumers will be OK.

OTOH I remember when Walmart stores had “Made in USA” signs hanging over US made goods all over the store (remember that?). Since then we’ve been enjoying all those cheap imports keeping life affordable and our lives full of … stuff.

 

[Rod/]

I'll get there before most of you reach middle age.

Once I kick off, get yourselves Ouija Boards so you can receive my messages. They'll be more entertaining than YouTube, I promise, because I'll have an eternity to get all the details just right.



'Improvement' is kind of a subjective word. As is 'progress'.

We certainly have more gadgets and gizmos. We have bigger houses.We've got the Washing Machine and Dryer. We have seat heaters and massage chairs in our cars. We can fight with each other and check out porn on the WWW. We can order Asian food on the web and have Door Dash deliver it cold, soggy and crappy, instead of bothering going out to a restaurant and getting it hot and served nicely.

Because we like cold, soggy, crappy food as long as we can sit around in our jammies and not have to get all dressed up and go out in public to eat, or heaven forfend, cook, and order this junk with our cell phones, dammit!

We have phones, cameras, computers and TVs in our pockets all in wrapped up into one slick little gizmo, so we can do idiotic things like be entertained by TikTok, text people and/or scam them, watch people who have no idea what they're talking about review other gadgets, or 'unbox' things, or create slime, or make movies of themselves listening to music (!) instead of making music, on YouTube.

So are we happier than our parents, grandparents or great-grandparents, or even our ancient forebears who spent their lives without this stuff? Do we get more satisfaction out of life? Are we less neurotic and less pressured? Are our kids and grandkids better off if they go to school with a cell phone in their backpack instead of physical books and a thermos?

Is it better to live a few years longer than people lived a couple of generations ago, so more of us wind up in old folks homes wearing Depends and living with walkers and drool cups with no quality of life, while our kids visit occasionally and we all pretend this kind of existence is a worthwhile thing?

It's not like anyone on Earth is going to give a good goddam about us or what we did only a short time after we kick off. What's the extra time for? So far, I can't figure it out, which is why I record orchestral music in my spare time that no one will ever listen to or care about. It beats the hell out of a walker and a drool cup, or so I think.

Seems to me we deal with the same sh!t people dealt with thousands of years ago when it comes to unpleasant realities like violence, wars, taxes, hatred, sheer evil...and, or course, death. And also the same kinds of pleasant realities: families, kids, sunny days. You know, the important stuff.

Now we call our master 'the boss' or 'the client' instead of 'domine' (the latin word slaves used addressing their master). The master calls on the cell phone, and it's just like when the master rang the servant's bell 2,000 years ago:

"How high shall I jump, domine, and what hoops shall I jump through to keep my gig so I can keep accumulating gear I won't give a rat's ass about once I have it for a few days, and will put on Reverb so I can buy something else I won't give a crap about a few days later?"

Who owns your time? You really think it's you?

Different day, same sh!t, fancier tools. I hardly see the point of calling this 'improvement'. I'll concede only the word, 'change'. Change can be good or bad, depending on how you look at it.

"Laz, you need to go to bed."

"Sorry, I don't have time for sleep. I'm too busy living out these so-called golden years ranting on the internet for such mundane things as getting some zzzs, that consume hours when I could be doing productive stuff like teaching the immediate world that we're really f#cked and that progress is illusory."

Well said….

 

[tdroid]

More production will be moved from China to Indonesia, Vietnam, etc.

The response to tariffs and US trade wars is retaliatory tariffs primarily targeting US agriculture leading to the US issuing massive supplemental subsidies (bailouts) for farmers; the world knows from past trade wars that the way to win is to hit US farmers and hit them hard. According to the Council On Foreign Relations (a US think tank) “92% of China Tariffs have gone to angry farmers” with bailouts totaling over $60 billion since 2018 to offset the loss of exports (soybeans, corn, beef, pork, rice, etc.). All those higher prices we’re paying in the US are going to bailout farmers, while other countries are using their tariff revenues to bailout their preferred industries.

Targeted tariffs can also be an interesting strategy to help a new or struggling domestic producer by taxing imports to punish purchases of imports over domestic products. But that requires establishing and/or increasing domestic production before the tariffs so there’s no shortages or supply chain interruptions mucking up the economy.

Targeted tariffs to deal with dumping, currency manipulation and other unfair trade practices are certainly fair game, and as long as there’s excess domestic capacity to make up for the loss of imports domestic consumers will be OK.

OTOH I remember when Walmart stores had “Made in USA” signs hanging over US made goods all over the store (remember that?). Since then we’ve been enjoying all those cheap imports keeping life affordable and our lives full of … stuff.

Unless the tariffs aren't limited to China.

 

[archtop]

Unless the tariffs aren't limited to China.

And there’s no reason to expect they will be, so production may shift around trying to find the most efficient use of capital to bring products to market at the lowest cost. As Bette Davis said “Fasten your seatbelts, it’s going to be a bumpy night”.

I can’t wait to see the used guitar market in 5 - 7 years with listings touting their guitar was part of the unicorn batch from the 6 months of production in whatever country folks decide made the best. While other listings for the exact same model with be discounted as that guitar was made from the small batch made in a less favored country.

 

[tdroid]

I can’t wait to see the used guitar market in 5 - 7 years with listings touting their guitar was part of the unicorn batch from the 6 months of production in whatever country folks decide made the best.

Because no one builds guitars as good as the one's have whom have just learned to do it!

 

[Maertl513]

PRS prices do have always a wave form. If the new administration charges penalty taxes in order of protectionism of national industry, other regions will do the same.
There will be lose:lose, because of a severe decrease of consume.
Buy now!

 

[László]

PRS do have always a wave form. If the new administration charges penalty taxes in order of protectionism of national industry, other region will do the same.
There will lose:lose, because of a severe decrease of consume.
Buy now!

You're right.

History has shown that protective tariffs most often make the economy worse. The imposition of tariffs made the Great Depression worse, for example, triggering a tit-for-tat set of trade barriers, and forcing nations to devalue currencies so that their goods and raw materials would remain competitive on world markets.

Most people haven't read history and therefore are doomed to keep repeating the same mistakes.

"Being a guy, I'd rather have tit than tat."

"I'm so not surprised you said that."

 

[Prina]

Buy now!

Always correct on this forum!

 

[SinSir]

Agree or disagree with tariffs..what we've been doing isn't working and I'd rather be on board with real change than staying put in quicksand. Reading and listening to the full plan helps make more sense than listening to the paid actors programming on our news spoutung the same lines.

 

[László]

Reading and listening to the full plan helps make more sense than listening to the paid actors programming on our news spoutung the same lines.

This is true. But there's a viable third way.

Instead of tariffs, give worthwhile tax breaks to firms that keep jobs in the US.

I don't know if this has been suggested by others, of either party. It probably has?

Here's why I say this:

Until the tariffs take effect - if they do take effect, which isn't proven - we will still be living with overseas production on current products, and for lack of real alternatives, simply paying more for them because of the tariffs. That translates to higher rates of inflation.

Before American production can be ramped up as the politicians are hoping, tooling, parts suppliers, factory space, and ten zillion other items will need to be changed to make these tariffs put Americans to work. Lots of lead time is necessary.

Thinking there's going to be a quick fix is wishful thinking at best. It will take years. Even in the wartime emergency of WW2, with production of consumer goods nearly abandoned in favor of production of weapons, it still took over a year to ramp up production, and a couple of years for production to hit its stride. It wasn't until 1943 that we really doubled production here, and not until 1944 to hit the max amount.

Even though that was a long time ago, it still takes time to do this. So what happens in the meantime?

You just don't get satisfaction overnight.

In addition, tariffs will trigger trading partners to enact their own tariffs.

Who knows what they will be on? Just manufactured goods? How about the wheat, meat, and other farm products that farmers depend on foreign customers to buy? It's a substantial amount of US farm production.

How about the American cars that sell pretty well in China? Do you want to see those sales dwindle because of tit for tat tariffs?

Bottom line, who's going to buy relatively expensive US made products that will be made more expensive due to tariffs, when perfectly acceptable products can be sourced from elsewhere for a lot less money?

Let's say the tariffs affect the prices of the imported SE line. Those go up to, say, S2 levels and cut a substantial number of players right out of the market. This is but one very minor example.

No one loves American products more than I do. We've improved our production quality a TON since the bad old days of the late previous century. I've been happily buying American cars again ever since 2008 every two or three years, have had zero problems with them, and my wife and I bought two new ones this year.

I only buy American made guitars (actually, I've only bought US guitars since I was a kid); I haven't bought an amp made overseas, ever. All of my pedals are made in the US. My audio gear was made here for the most part (some in the UK, Germany, and Australia, but not much).

Point is, I don't need a government twisting my arm to make me to seek out US goods by artificially jacking up import prices.

Of course, the foreign vendors and their lobbies will be throwing money at the legislators to oppose this, and most politicians seem to respond to money, perks and campaign contributions more than logic. So I'm not sure this is going to be a slam dunk regardless of who controls Congress.

I guess we're going to find out pretty soon, huh?

 

[veinbuster]

This thread has gotten a bit too political. Not that I disagree with the commentary, but I suggest taking it back to one vendor’s pricing.

 

[László]

This thread has gotten a bit too political.

I tried to base my posts on historical fact, not current politics.

I hope I didn't offend anyone.

Thing is, one vendor's pricing can't be disassociated from the economic climate. Everything affects everything, as a certain well known guitar designer says.

 

[RC Mike]

I suspect that PRS is going to put themselves in a corner, eventually. I think a handful of things will come together close enough in time to really put the company in a challenging spot.

Every price point for real PRS guitars are getting high enough that even folks here are questioning the value. I think the order backlog masks this for PRS. At some point, more consumers are going to question buying a new S2 at prices that can get them a used Core. Core and WL prices are high enough that you can get a used PS for near those prices, or a very nice older guitar.

I suspect that the orders are going to taper off, from the low-end up. If I were PRS, I’d be watching the S2 and Bolt-On orders as a bell-weather.

For newer guitarists and folks without as much disposable income, I suspect SEs are going to move from an entry point to an end point. There’s a huge spread in price-points for the imports now. The marketing message from PRS has been pretty interesting—hey, DG is going to play an SE live. It’s just as good as a real one. That message doesn’t encourage moving up the product line.

And sooner rather than later, Paul is going to reduce his role, retire, or die.

I’d imagine that all of this will come to a head within the next five years.

 

[veinbuster]

Thing is, one vendor's pricing can't be disassociated from the economic climate. Everything affects everything, as a certain well known guitar designer says.

Oh, I agree.
The inflation cycle isn’t complete, even though numbers suggest it is lowering. Wages haven’t finished playing catchup, so costs haven’t settled, so we can’t assume prices won’t go up more.

 

[Runcible Gates]

This thread has gotten a bit too political. Not that I disagree with the commentary, but I suggest taking it back to one vendor’s pricing.

It seems people struggle to tell the difference between politics and economics. You can all tell the difference between an electric guitar and an amplifier - after all, they do visibly/audibly different jobs in the transduction chain - but somehow the differences between politics and economics present more of a challenge. As a somewhat-qualified economist (albeit only to degree-level), the differences look pretty clear to me.

Economics is (notionally, at least) an attempt to bring dispassionate analysis into the aggregate of our commercial behaviors. it looks long and hard at things like tariff-setting, and attempts to quantify its likely outcomes.


OTOH, if you think that politics is all about dispassionate analysis and quantifying outcomes, I have a bridge in Brooklyn available for your purchase (tariff-free, of course).