Do I go Modeler or Not

I had completely overlooked this product, so I spent a hour watching the following video:


What impressed me was not only the sounds coming out of this box, but Thomas Blug's understanding of tube amp phenomena. He is one of the first people I have encountered in the gear business who really understands what makes guitar tube amps tick. His background is lot like my own in that he started to play with electronics as a kid and combined his love of guitar with his love of electronics. He is one of the few solid-state designers out there that is understands how damping factor and the cathode follower impact the tone of a guitar tube amp (what he says about damping factor and the Iridium aligns with my own experience when it comes to amps designed for modern metal). I am assuming that the tube he is using is from the end of the tube-type period. It appears to a subminiature tube design, either a 6112 (subminiature equivalent of a 5751) or 6111 (subminiature equivalent of a 12AU7), most likely the 6111 or its Russian equivalent 6N16B-V. I am curious as to how it is being used to shape tone and response in the power amp. It is much more convincing than any digital modeler I have heard and does appear to react to playing dynamics like a tube amp better than any digital modeler I have heard. Granted, the Amp1 Mercury Edition is not a Swiss Army Knife like a digital modeler, but for the guiitarist who is looking for a lightweight, reliable set of base tones coupled with a power amp in a small package, it does appear to deliver. I appreciate your bringing the product to my attention.
You are quite welcome @Em7 .. it was a game changer for me……..still selling off the remainder of my tube amps,…
 
I've been using the Axe-FX (and KPA) and I like it for different reasons than my tube setup (Archon + MESA cab). It's tough to go wrong with digital units, especially when they sound great without the older hassles regarding travel when needed.

Case in point, made this awhile back with a digital unit and that aspect went well.
 
Possibly ditto of @DreamTheaterRules on the PS. It could serve as an attenuator for my little Mesa, and as an amp for my Pod Go…. @DreamTheaterRules first though, he’s been around way longer, he was first, and I really need to spend way more time practicing and learning, and way less time gear-slutting…
 
ha, me too! :)
I moved from an extremely unnatural 15 year obsession with headphone gear to photography and guitars. I built a decent mirrorless system and bought a guitar, a little Mesa Boogie and a pod go and a couple other things with proceeds from the headphone gear sell off. Clearly, clearly a gear issue on my part. I’m 63, and started “playing”, and I use that term very losely, the last third of year 62, hence the need to use my credit card as a guitar pick instead….

Ok, to retain some shred of the original OP, I started with a Fender Mustang gtx100 modeling amp. Not bad, but choice paralysis, and a bit too much reliance on the phone app. I decided I wanted a real tube amp to just plug into and play, so I ended up getting a Mesa Boogie mark v 25, arguably a very fiddly amp in its own right. Then I wanted some pedals. Since I’m a rank beginner, I know nearly f-all about pedals. Enter the Pod Go. I got it to use as a multi-fx pedal. Turns out it also works as a standalone rig into headphones or monitors as well. Sure, it’s an infant helix, and can’t do everything, but it sounds pretty darned good.

Conclusion - The fender modeler wasn’t bad, but I wanted a Mesa Boogie (‘cause Santana…). I like my tube amp! the Pod Go is pretty bitchin’ and makes a really good case for modeling tech. I would have no idea how to properly use a more sophisticated modeling set up. I have a serious gear issue. I suspect this community is way more “enabler” than GSA (Gear Sluts Anonymous).
 
I moved from an extremely unnatural 15 year obsession with headphone gear to photography and guitars. I built a decent mirrorless system and bought a guitar, a little Mesa Boogie and a pod go and a couple other things with proceeds from the headphone gear sell off. Clearly, clearly a gear issue on my part. I’m 63, and started “playing”, and I use that term very losely, the last third of year 62, hence the need to use my credit card as a guitar pick instead….

Ok, to retain some shred of the original OP, I started with a Fender Mustang gtx100 modeling amp. Not bad, but choice paralysis, and a bit too much reliance on the phone app. I decided I wanted a real tube amp to just plug into and play, so I ended up getting a Mesa Boogie mark v 25, arguably a very fiddly amp in its own right. Then I wanted some pedals. Since I’m a rank beginner, I know nearly f-all about pedals. Enter the Pod Go. I got it to use as a multi-fx pedal. Turns out it also works as a standalone rig into headphones or monitors as well. Sure, it’s an infant helix, and can’t do everything, but it sounds pretty darned good.

Conclusion - The fender modeler wasn’t bad, but I wanted a Mesa Boogie (‘cause Santana…). I like my tube amp! the Pod Go is pretty bitchin’ and makes a really good case for modeling tech. I would have no idea how to properly use a more sophisticated modeling set up. I have a serious gear issue. I suspect this community is way more “enabler” than GSA (Gear Sluts Anonymous).
Indeed, you are in the wrong place if you're looking for GSA. In terms of modeling vs. tube amp, I'll always have an analog rig built around a tube amp, but for the quick and dirty gigs that I'm doing now, the HX Stomp XL with the Headrush speaker for stage volume and the HX Stomp XL to FOH is the perfect solution. I can literally carry all my gear into a venue in one trip.

Having said that, I did go through a short period of choice paralysis when trying to decide on which modeler to go for, and again once I had my Helix HX Stomp in hand and needed to start building my own presets since the factory presets are far from ideal. Now that I have my preferred amp models IR's and effects figured out, I can do any gig with about four patches.
 
I write for EverythingRecording.com as a side hustle, it keeps me fed with new gear and software. One of the companies I've reviewed (twice, actually) is STLTones, who have a few different modeling plugins (and Kemper presets) that, to my grizzled old ears, really, really sound fantastic.

STL Tones Tonality Review <- that's their less expensive, lower-frills, plug-it-in-and-go option
STL Tones ToneHub Review <- if this cost $1000, I'd still buy it. I literally can not record guitar without it at this point.

If you want to know anything more about them, I would be really happy to share. And no, these are not paid endorsements despite getting free installations. Once in a while, there comes along a piece of equipment, hardware, software, or otherwise, that's just a game changer. For me, those have been Steinberg Cubase, McDSP FilterBank, ToneHub, the Aphex CX-1 500 series compressor, the EL8 Distressor, NaughtySeal Perfect Drums and the studio monitors I use (Avantone Abbey Pro's). I couldn't recommend any of them enough (except for maybe those Aphex ones, as they are 50 year old units, hard to find, and I buy them when I see 'em come up for sale - so you know, stay out).

Amp sims are really polarizing. Not just "to go for or forgo", but which ones in particular. Or using a hardware unit versus host-based software. And, like everything, people are going to have preferences. So this is really just what works for me and my use case -- that is entirely producing music in a studio environment. End of the day, it comes down to tone. And STLTones have that clocked.
 
I've been using Helix direct into the PA and just using my monitor for my own sound on stage, for several years now and it works wonderfully. I can get heavy tones at conversation levels for tiny bar gigs and I get big sounds outside or in large venues. 14lbs, 3 cables. EASY load-in and load-out, and FAR more flexibility with different sounds than I could get from an Amp and pedals.

You can do like I do, and use only one or two presets per night - with lots of variation in tone within the presets, or you can have over 1000 different presets with dozens of different amps and hundreds of effects.

is it "as good" as a tube amp? Debatable, and subjective, however, in a band mix, it's so close that only YOU will be able to tell and it saves SO much space, weight, and footprint that, IMHO, it's well worth the switch. I still have all my tube amps, and occasionally will use them just to see if it's that much different, but I've pretty much gone full-on modeling for live gigs and rehearsals.

Examples (please excuse the clams and gaffs...):

Here's a good heavier classic rock-tone example...


A good Clean with an overdriven lead at the end...


This is as heavy as we get, but it has huge capability to much heavier...


Lots of effects... reverb, delay, chorus, etc... and going clean to mean with feedback...

 
I've been using Helix direct into the PA and just using my monitor for my own sound on stage, for several years now and it works wonderfully. I can get heavy tones at conversation levels for tiny bar gigs and I get big sounds outside or in large venues. 14lbs, 3 cables. EASY load-in and load-out, and FAR more flexibility with different sounds than I could get from an Amp and pedals.

You can do like I do, and use only one or two presets per night - with lots of variation in tone within the presets, or you can have over 1000 different presets with dozens of different amps and hundreds of effects.

is it "as good" as a tube amp? Debatable, and subjective, however, in a band mix, it's so close that only YOU will be able to tell and it saves SO much space, weight, and footprint that, IMHO, it's well worth the switch. I still have all my tube amps, and occasionally will use them just to see if it's that much different, but I've pretty much gone full-on modeling for live gigs and rehearsals.

Examples (please excuse the clams and gaffs...):

Here's a good heavier classic rock-tone example...


A good Clean with an overdriven lead at the end...


This is as heavy as we get, but it has huge capability to much heavier...


Lots of effects... reverb, delay, chorus, etc... and going clean to mean with feedback...

Great tones and very nice chops!

A friend of mine does the same, very effective and easily replicated sound.
 
I've been using Helix direct into the PA and just using my monitor for my own sound on stage, for several years now and it works wonderfully. I can get heavy tones at conversation levels for tiny bar gigs and I get big sounds outside or in large venues. 14lbs, 3 cables. EASY load-in and load-out, and FAR more flexibility with different sounds than I could get from an Amp and pedals.

You can do like I do, and use only one or two presets per night - with lots of variation in tone within the presets, or you can have over 1000 different presets with dozens of different amps and hundreds of effects.

is it "as good" as a tube amp? Debatable, and subjective, however, in a band mix, it's so close that only YOU will be able to tell and it saves SO much space, weight, and footprint that, IMHO, it's well worth the switch. I still have all my tube amps, and occasionally will use them just to see if it's that much different, but I've pretty much gone full-on modeling for live gigs and rehearsals.

Examples (please excuse the clams and gaffs...):

Here's a good heavier classic rock-tone example...


A good Clean with an overdriven lead at the end...


This is as heavy as we get, but it has huge capability to much heavier...


Lots of effects... reverb, delay, chorus, etc... and going clean to mean with feedback...

That sounds good and VERSATILE! I may have to look further into JUST using my HeadRush once this album is done and I have the time to discover and tweak (Currently using it basically as an effects system in front of my tube amp) !
 
I just did updates to my Helix yesterday. I was still running 3.0.1 firmware. Moved up to 3.15 and wiped EVERY preset out - including all the factory garbage.

I loaded in pairs of my favorite IRs, a close mic and a room mic for each cab. Here's what I'm using for IRs:

* Marshall 1966 2x12 with pre-Rola 75Hz Greenbacks

* Bad Cat 1x12 with proprietary Bad Cat speaker

* MESA/Boogie theile 1x12 with EVM12L

I have hundreds more, but those appease me at the moment, even with Fender amps.

I currently have ONE patch, lol. It is just a blend of two Plexi heads:

A Super Lead 100 running parallel with a Tremolo 50. The Tremolo 50 has a spring reverb behind it (like in the loop). Both amps rejoin a single path (2A) before being sent to a pair of IRs running in parallel. For this, I used the Marshall 1966 mentioned above. Usually I'll add a room-type reverb after the "room" cab to give it more depth. Not this time. With my mega-modded SE245 and my JP15 I can get two very different tones just from the differences in guitars.

To me, that's the killer part of using models. I can basically make any tone I need almost instantly. It has done wonders for my recordings and playing. I have learned to rely less on saturation in my lead playing. I've had the Helix since it was released and I find myself playing cleaner as time passes by. LOTS of mid-gain and edge of breakup sounds to be explored!!
 
Expanding on the above, I have found that using a gain block as the first thing in my signal chain helps me better control dynamics between guitar controls and amp gain. I tend to reduce input by 2.9db before making any adjustments. This also seem to help the amp EQ respond with more finesse.

I'm finding a lot of tones that fit tracks perfectly when I am tweaking guitar vol/tone and amp gain/EQ.

Another big secret is that I always research the real amp. If the real amp has a tube rectifier. I'm going to run the sag at 5.0 or higher. Tube rectifiers have a slower response time when recovering from high-voltage, thus more sag in the tone. The opposite is true for diode rectifiers. So, if an amp comes with a SS rectifier I reduce sag to tighten the response. Sometimes, like with the patch I described in my previous post, both one amp has a tube rectifier and the other SS. This is beneficial because one amp can add a little tightness if you lower the bass on the EQ, while the other will sag and bloom nicely - especially if you lower the bass.

Bias is another control that, when used to help shape tone, is crucial. In this case, I always tend to run my bias at 5.5 or less. In real amps I prefer my bias a tad on the cold side. I prefer the note response with a colder bias. Plus I find that amp stays smoother with a controlled bias.

When blending small combos in with 50-100 watt heads I do like the bias on the little amp to be hotter. In those cases I tend to be going for a nasty rock-n-roll sound. One tighter amp with one about to meltdown usually achieves that!!!

Blending amps? Why do I talk about that so much? Can't the Helix sound good using a single model???

Yes it can. There are MANY amp+cab blocks I can use and build a great tone out of, and very often if I'm layering several guitar tracks I will use a single amp and cab.

However, I tend to record in a pseudo "old school" way. I track the song straight through using one rig and one guitar per take. If I mess up, I redo the whole take. It's gotta be in one pass. I'll overdub leads, but again - one take, straight through.

Because if this I want a tone that is going to sit nice in a mix. Something that has the clarity and frequencies I need. That's why I'll very often blend a modern amp with a vintage amp. The vintage amp is my note definition, and the modern amp adds sponginess and saturation. When setting up the tone as I practice the part, I'll spend a lot of time blending the input ratio to each amp to make it balance correctly.

This is why all my split paths are done A/B instead of Y. I also make solid use of the mixer that's available at the path return block.

Sounds like a lot but it's very intuitive once you get the hang of the parameters. I can bust out a "perfect" patch from ground up in about 15 minutes.
 
Got a Kemper Kone. Old style with the bigger magnet. Love the tones from my 1X12 cabinet. Interesting how Vintage 30 is better for high gain and others are better for clean. The in the room sound is great as not ice pickey like some amps.
 
My two cents (probably not even worth that) is go modeler! The sounds and options available on the new modelers are stellar and are the equivalent of having a warehouse full of gear at your feet. Of course, there is the old school who will never get rid of their amps and huge arrays of pedals, but in my world, I would rather have a thousand options to choose from in one package rather than trying to keep track of and maintain all that gear. In your situation, you may need to spend a considerable amount of time to get your modeler dialed in to match your current set up, but once you do, your doin' shots after the show rather than packing up and hauling gear ;~)) I just received my first modeler (Axe FXIII Turbo) about 2 weeks ago and I have fallen in love with it. It is the best music purchase I have ever made other than my PRS guitars. Here is a photo of my rig, which is in a Gator case on wheels ;~))
MyRack_2022Jan07.jpg


Let me know if you want any additional details about likes, don't likes, set up, etc. Good luck with finding your zen!
Nice Rig, AXE-FX is the best!
 
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